Deciding on What Manufacture of Reloading Equiptment?

[at_liberty]

Hello Everyone, I just joined this group on Wednesday and pleased

that such a board exists. I have been shooting since 1983

When I entered the US Army @ Ft. Sill, Oklahoma.

I started to get interested in the possibility of reloading

Recently. I am now trying calculate which system to go with

and what company to go with. I did speak to a Dillon

Tech on the "650" @ the NRA Convention last month. I was

impressed with the quality of the system viewed, but need

user opinion on Dillon, Hornady, Lee, etc? I kindly request

any and all suggestion, advice, comments and experiences of

the various instruments that are on the market.

Thanking everyone in advance,

Stephen

I don't know about you, but I don't need 600 rounds an hour output and would not pay for $1000 worth of equipment to get to that output rate. I find what people like depends on how much they want to shoot. One can buy a boat load of ammo for what it costs to own a first class loading setup.

I think passing through the various economy and output rate stages is a natural progression and allows one to get intimately familiar with all the processes and setups. A progressive press is a bit of a juggling act, and the really good ones with the fewest headaches are seriously expensive and difficult to cost justify until reaching the point of competing regularly in ammo-intensive, shoot-em-up competitions.

I am very comfortable with a Lee turret press and am not bashful about admitting what I spent on it. I have tried a progressive and am sure I would enjoy owning and using one. It's just that I don't actually "need" it. If you just enjoy nice tools and can regard it as one of your toys, not really shooting enough to justify it as an expense or savings, go for it. It seems like Dillon is the one the heavy volume shooters favor. I'm just the dumba$$ n00b who is happy with his Lee stuff.

[Seth]

I don't wanna tinker. I want to crank out a LOT of ammo in a short period of time. If something fails, I want one call to solve my problem. I want to walk into my reloading room, sit down and work. I don't want to assemble, dial, or fix.

So I bought the machine that insured that was the case. With nearly 24k rounds thru my 650, I bought well.

[addicted]

I started loading with a lee because it was cheap. IT was a miserable experience. Constantly needed adjusting and tinkering. I do that all day with the machines at work. not in the mood to do it when i want to load ammo.

Hornady machine looked good, but everyone at my local club said Dillon. I bought a used 650, even though they the guys at the club swore by the SBD and 550. I have never regretted it. sure it costs more up front, but you absolutely get what you pay for. my machine was used when i got it, and I just recently found out that it was a first generation machine. it still runs fine after countless rounds being made.

[GentlemanJim]

I have in excess of 500,000 rounds loaded on an early 1050...I doubt I have spent $50.00 maintaining it since the early 1980s

I started with a 450...upgraded to 550 then onto the 1050

We use the 550 for rifle and for off cailbers that we dont use in large quantities (its so quick and easy to change over)

Dillon has been SOLID in standing behind the products and has replaced parts I broke along the way, as well as any part that wore out

There are other very good presses out there But Dillon is the one I will stay with

Also for a person new to reloading, Brian is a GREAT asset for help getting started!

Jim

[Rolex]

I for one would rather than switch!

Dillon ALL the way!

[CSEMARTIN]

Dillon.

Is there anything else worth talking about?

[Ken8521]

Here's a PDF w/ a lot of good info on the LNL, XL650, and the Loadmaster.... Personally, I would consider this a 2 horse race.

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

[Eric Scher]

Hello Everyone, I just joined this group on Wednesday and pleased

that such a board exists. I have been shooting since 1983

When I entered the US Army @ Ft. Sill, Oklahoma.

I started to get interested in the possibility of reloading

Recently. I am now trying calculate which system to go with

and what company to go with.

Thanking everyone in advance,

Stephen

I know I'm a few weeks late to this, but what the heck...

Stephen -

Fort Silly, eh?

Were you a Frakking Idiot Seeking Targets, or were you a Gun Bunny?

Just curious.

Anyway, in regards to your question:

Please note that the following is only my OPINION, and I'm new to this reloading business. But perhaps, having recently gone through the same "what do I buy?" situation that you are currently experiencing, perhaps I can give you a useful perspective on the issue.

With all due respect to Graham Smith, the first thing to do is NOT to determine what you want to reload, it's to determine your realistic budget for purchasing EVERYTHING you need to get started, which is not just a reloader, it includes brass, primers, powder, bullets, tools, accessories, books, and for many folks, either a new desk/bench or modifications to an existing one.

As for reloaders...

No matter what brand or model reloader you want to talk about, there is someone who hates it and someone who loves it.

Having said that, Dillon is of course the Cadillac of re-loaders, and they do have a well deserved reputation for standing behind their equipment no matter what. Still, there are plenty of other options, and many of them will do quite well for you.

Now, let me take two extremes: $500 budget versus $5000 budget, because they are easy.

If you have a $5,000 budget, forget Dillon. Just buy a quality single stage reloader, the dies you need and your supplies; and start reloading. I think the Forster Co-Ax is a wonderful choice for that level, but there ARE other options.

If you have a $500 budget, forget everything else EXCEPT Dillon. Now, there are three types of Dillon presses:

1. Very Low Volume reloading, primarily for those who just want to reload one or two pistol calibers to make their practice sessions more affordable.
2. Very High Volume reloading, primarily for those who need a "commercial" level of output in the most common rifle and pistol calibers.
3. "Armory" reloaders, primarily for those who have multiple handguns and long guns, and with to reload for all of them.

The first and second categories are, respectively, the Square Deal "B" and the 1050.

That leaves the 550 and the 650.

Most people should get the 550, because MOST people are going to want to reload maybe only a few hundred rounds of any one ammo at a time, and the 550 is well known for it's quick caliber changes.

I got a 650, but then, I had slightly different needs. I wanted to do caliber changes, but I ALSO wanted the ability to rapidly crank out a thousand rounds of ammo any time I wanted. BE AWARE that if you decide to follow me down that path that you will ALSO end up spending money on what I think Brian calls his deluxe quick change kit. It's basically everything you need to have a complete toolhead setup with everything from Dies to Powder permanently mounted on the toolhead. It's still not as fast a changeout as a 550, but it's close. Oh, and... In MY opinion, there is no point in going this rather pricey route unless you buy an electric primer loader as well.

One final thought...

I have a half dozen calibers that I reload for and I have several more that I plan to add as time goes by. This can add up to quite a bit if you go my route of buying a 650 and then buying the things you need to make a 650 a "quick change capable" reloader.

I think Brian bought a new Caddy after my purchase...

The point is, unless you have a 1050 Budget, don't buy a 650 and plan to use it as a faster 550. Just buy the 550 to begin with.

That's it. I hope I said something you can find to be useful.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Eric Scher

[GrumpyOne]

Hello Everyone, I just joined this group on Wednesday and pleased

that such a board exists. I have been shooting since 1983

When I entered the US Army @ Ft. Sill, Oklahoma.

I started to get interested in the possibility of reloading

Recently. I am now trying calculate which system to go with

and what company to go with. I did speak to a Dillon

Tech on the "650" @ the NRA Convention last month. I was

impressed with the quality of the system viewed, but need

user opinion on Dillon, Hornady, Lee, etc? I kindly request

any and all suggestion, advice, comments and experiences of

the various instruments that are on the market.

Thanking everyone in advance,

Stephen

I don't know about you, but I don't need 600 rounds an hour output and would not pay for $1000 worth of equipment to get to that output rate. I find what people like depends on how much they want to shoot. One can buy a boat load of ammo for what it costs to own a first class loading setup.

I think passing through the various economy and output rate stages is a natural progression and allows one to get intimately familiar with all the processes and setups. A progressive press is a bit of a juggling act, and the really good ones with the fewest headaches are seriously expensive and difficult to cost justify until reaching the point of competing regularly in ammo-intensive, shoot-em-up competitions.

I am very comfortable with a Lee turret press and am not bashful about admitting what I spent on it. I have tried a progressive and am sure I would enjoy owning and using one. It's just that I don't actually "need" it. If you just enjoy nice tools and can regard it as one of your toys, not really shooting enough to justify it as an expense or savings, go for it. It seems like Dillon is the one the heavy volume shooters favor. I'm just the dumba$$ n00b who is happy with his Lee stuff.

You'll understand when you finally load some rounds on ANY Dillon....

[GrumpyOne]

Hello Everyone, I just joined this group on Wednesday and pleased

that such a board exists. I have been shooting since 1983

When I entered the US Army @ Ft. Sill, Oklahoma.

I started to get interested in the possibility of reloading

Recently. I am now trying calculate which system to go with

and what company to go with.

Thanking everyone in advance,

Stephen

I know I'm a few weeks late to this, but what the heck...

Stephen -

Fort Silly, eh?

Were you a Frakking Idiot Seeking Targets, or were you a Gun Bunny?

Just curious.

Anyway, in regards to your question:

Please note that the following is only my OPINION, and I'm new to this reloading business. But perhaps, having recently gone through the same "what do I buy?" situation that you are currently experiencing, perhaps I can give you a useful perspective on the issue.

With all due respect to Graham Smith, the first thing to do is NOT to determine what you want to reload, it's to determine your realistic budget for purchasing EVERYTHING you need to get started, which is not just a reloader, it includes brass, primers, powder, bullets, tools, accessories, books, and for many folks, either a new desk/bench or modifications to an existing one.

As for reloaders...

No matter what brand or model reloader you want to talk about, there is someone who hates it and someone who loves it.

Having said that, Dillon is of course the Cadillac of re-loaders, and they do have a well deserved reputation for standing behind their equipment no matter what. Still, there are plenty of other options, and many of them will do quite well for you.

Now, let me take two extremes: $500 budget versus $5000 budget, because they are easy.

If you have a $5,000 budget, forget Dillon. Just buy a quality single stage reloader, the dies you need and your supplies; and start reloading. I think the Forster Co-Ax is a wonderful choice for that level, but there ARE other options.

If you have a $500 budget, forget everything else EXCEPT Dillon. Now, there are three types of Dillon presses:

1. Very Low Volume reloading, primarily for those who just want to reload one or two pistol calibers to make their practice sessions more affordable.
2. Very High Volume reloading, primarily for those who need a "commercial" level of output in the most common rifle and pistol calibers.
3. "Armory" reloaders, primarily for those who have multiple handguns and long guns, and with to reload for all of them.

The first and second categories are, respectively, the Square Deal "B" and the 1050.

That leaves the 550 and the 650.

Most people should get the 550, because MOST people are going to want to reload maybe only a few hundred rounds of any one ammo at a time, and the 550 is well known for it's quick caliber changes.

I got a 650, but then, I had slightly different needs. I wanted to do caliber changes, but I ALSO wanted the ability to rapidly crank out a thousand rounds of ammo any time I wanted. BE AWARE that if you decide to follow me down that path that you will ALSO end up spending money on what I think Brian calls his deluxe quick change kit. It's basically everything you need to have a complete toolhead setup with everything from Dies to Powder permanently mounted on the toolhead. It's still not as fast a changeout as a 550, but it's close. Oh, and... In MY opinion, there is no point in going this rather pricey route unless you buy an electric primer loader as well.

One final thought...

I have a half dozen calibers that I reload for and I have several more that I plan to add as time goes by. This can add up to quite a bit if you go my route of buying a 650 and then buying the things you need to make a 650 a "quick change capable" reloader.

I think Brian bought a new Caddy after my purchase...

The point is, unless you have a 1050 Budget, don't buy a 650 and plan to use it as a faster 550. Just buy the 550 to begin with.

That's it. I hope I said something you can find to be useful.

Eric, Eric, Eric.....Sounds alot like the 550/650 debate we had long ago.....

Really secinv, the 550 is a great press. I have loaded on one for several years now. The caliber changes are quick, the cost is less than a 650 (or 1050), it doesn't auto index, but it really isn't terribly slower than a 650 (a 650 without the case feeder and bullet feeder that is), and it has Dillon's no BS warranty.

[ScottyPotty]

I wanted a 550 - but the lack of case feeder for rifle (223) was a deal breaker.

[Eric Scher]

Sounds alot like the 550/650 debate we had long ago.....

Which we AIN'T re-hashing, so don't get yer hopes up.

[boz1911]

I've owned Hornady, RCBS, and Dillon presses. No doubt Dillon is King. It really hit home when I needed to load some hunting ammo last year and used a green press that I hadn't used in a while. Almost felt like the machine was going to break any minute.......

[Waldog]

You may find this website a little more informative on your Blue verses Red quest. It's worth a look.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318270

[shooterready]

I've loaded on RCBS equipment primarily since 2001. I have a Pro2000 that is tooled up to load just about everything. This is a great machine with very fast change overs. Especially moving back and forth between small and large primers. The primer strip feed system is great.

However, about a year and a half ago I bought a used 650 from a board member and haven't looked back. Wow! Wish I would have gone blue years earlier. Don't get me wrong, my green machine still is in service and owes me nothing. RCBS service is as good as Dillon, no questions asked.

I primarily load my .223 on the RCBS now and pump out the pistol rounds on the Dillon.

Your decision should be made on how many calibers you shoot and how many rounds you plan on rolling. Dillon may not be your answer? However, if you've got the extra cash, you won't be disappointed.

Good luck!

[roadapple]

I had a friend in Colorado Springs that ran a Trading Post. He used to have a reloading club. I know from this experience that the RL550b is an awesome machine. I plan on getting one. I also plan on getting a couple of auto-indexing presses to set up for large, and small primer systems. I'm open to the 650 and Hornady's LnL AP. I am trying to research them now. I started reloading 20 years ago. I have most of the equipment, although I'd like to upgrade scales, buy more dies, etc... I have two single stage presses, but I need to go progressive to feed my four "bullet hoses". I also want to get in some serious practice with my 1911. I know I can't go wrong with a Dillon, but I like the videos I've seen on the LnL AP. It looks like a stout built machine, which I like because I used to operate heavy equipment. I also have experience with small, precise machines so I am not worried about configuration or initial build. Any information, be it hyper-links or open discussion is welcome.

Thanks a ton!

Jim

[470nitro]

IMHO, there is no substitute for Dillon.

The Hornady LNL appears to be a very solid unit but I have had friends who had a few small failures (don't know what they were) after loading 15K-20K rounds.

In these cases, the warranty helps but doesn't make up for the fact that if you are a procrastinator like me and load 1-2 nights before my next match, these breakdowns kill you.

Over 50K on my USED Dillon and not so much as a hiccup other than cleaning related stuff (primer wedged between ram and primer arm, etc....).

You will never regret going Blue.

[secinv]

Hi Eric and everyone!

I am so pleased with the response to my request on advice and

Opinions. I am stuck between Dillon and Sinclair, but will make

a decision this week. If Dillon, I will reach out to Brian.

Eric, I was trained as a 13 Echo (Fire Direction Control), but

Also was trained as a 13 Bravo (Cannon Crewman).

Thank you!

Stephen

[at_liberty]

I am so pleased with the response to my request on advice and

Opinions. I am stuck between Dillon and Sinclair, but will make

a decision this week. If Dillon, I will reach out to Brian.

Stephen

How are those two choices remotely comparable? All I find for Sinclair is one little portable single stage.

[secinv]

Hi everyone, I ordered the 550B from Brian on Tuesday and many

of the associated items needed. I should receive there items from

Brian on Wednesday of next week. I am also building a strong bench

To reload, so I can keep all my reloading equiptment seperate from

my gunsmithing work. The Bench will be 42" Tall, 60" Length and 30"

In Depth. It will be strong enough to support 800lbs. The top will be

1 3/4" thick Maple and the rest of the structure will be made

of southern Yellow Pine (pressure treated).

Here is what I purchased from Brian to start with. I will put

Through another order to complete my needs next month.

1 K12xxx RL 550B in Caliber as Specified Caliber: 45 ACP

1 10xxx Dillon 3-Die Set, Caliber as Specified

1 DIGCA BrianEnos.com Digital Caliper

1 12xxx Dillon Stainless Case Gage, Caliber as Spec

PorR: Pistol

1 11541 550 Toolholder w/o Casefeeder - w/Wrenches

1 20048 550B Spare Parts Kit

1 19455 CV-750 Vibratory Case Cleaner

1 21045 CM-500 Media Separator

1 SCALE BrianEnos.com Digital Scale/RCBS Powder Pan

1 200xx 4-Pack Primer Pickup Tubes, Size as Specified

1 13606 Primer Flip Tray

1 10330 Reloading Manual - Lyman #49

1 13733 Dillon Case Lube

1 20128 RL 550B Caliber Conv: 223 Rem/5.56/222

1 10839 Dillon 223/5.56 3-Die Set - Steel

1 13254 Dillon 223/5.56 Rem Stainless Case Gagea.

1 22058 550B Deluxe Quick Change Kit

I spent about $1,147.00 and feel I got the basics for a

good start. It truly is an investment.I will purchase the rest

of the items from Brian after I finish installing the reloading

Instruments on my new bench.

I am very fortuanate to have lots of Space.

I have three interconnected garages (seperate from my

Home to work with. I keep my Jeep, BMW and my Indian Motorcyle

in The garage connected to my home.

Well, there is the facts and please comment on my purchase and

Future plans to reload.

Stephen

Randolph County, NC

Sergeant First Class (retired medically)

[secinv]

If you want to reload, please use Brian Enos's services.

He is a total professional and will guide you to the right equiptment.

He was very kind, patient and explained everything to me in

Specific and easy to understand terms.

Thanks Brian and to the members of this blog that proved advice,

Insight and reasoning on making a good sound selection.

Best regards,

Stephen

[secinv]

Ad_liberty, I am a gunsmith and have a solid relationship with

Brownells. Since Sinclair is now owned and operated by Brownells

I felt compelled to throw them into the mix. I also receive a good

discount on their products. I went with Dillon (through Brian)

as quality won out in reference to a better financial deal.

Sorry Brownells! I purchase most of my supplies from Brownells,

especially their tools and with the Brownells life time

guarantee period! I have been a customer with them since 1992 when

I upgraded my Browning High Power to a Tactical Firearm. I have never

Been concerned over any item they sell. I only now feel, Sinclair

needs to step up to the plate and invest some Research and Development

on their reloading presses. My hope is within a year or so they

Will reflect the same quality standard that Brownells has for their

Products.

Thank you,

Stephen

[benos]

If you want to reload, please use Brian Enos's services.

He is a total professional and will guide you to the right equiptment.

He was very kind, patient and explained everything to me in

Specific and easy to understand terms.

Thanks Brian and to the members of this blog that proved advice,

Insight and reasoning on making a good sound selection.

Best regards,

Stephen

Thank you Stephen!

be

[BigBore56]

If you can find a shop that stocks various presses in your area, go and get a feel for each one. I load all my precision ammo on a CO-AX, but really need the speed of a progressive for pistol loads.

I used the Hornady LNL AP for the past year, but really didn't like some of it's issues (skipped a primer every 50-60 rounds). Sold it and bought the RCBS Pro2000 Auto index. This machine just feels more solid, and I do like the primer strips. I load for several pistols (9-40-45), and the RCBS is super quick to change calibers. I am really considering setting it up for .308 next, for my AR-10T loads.

I plan to purchase the optional RCBS bullet feeder system next. A bullet feeder is more appealing to me than a case feeder (Hornady system), and does not require a large investment in feeder plates for the various bullets. It also would accomodate the caliber conversions much quicker. RCBS does have some nice cash rebates running right now, which helps justify the purchase.

[secinv]

I am planning on buying a CO-AX next month for my Tactical Rifle.

I still have not set up my Dillon 550 - hoping to do it on Wednesday.

I just have not had the time to do it, but the Reloading bench

is assembled and ready for the install.

I will post pictures...

Stephen