Eric Scher

Thanks for the info guys. You're right, I need to attend an actual match. Still and all, I think I'll most likely be competing with my Kimber Pro Carry, my Marlin Camp .45 and my Browning BPS; for the same reason that I used to drag race when I only had a 14 or 15 second car... If I wait until I have the Ultimate Setup, I'll never get around to having any fun.

Well that's the thing... About the only thing I would need to buy us some high capacity magazine pouches.

Thanks... that was helpful. It took me a minute to figure out "Power Factor", but I can't figure out if I am allowed to shoot reloaded ammo. If I CAN, I found a nice load for it. 230gr LRN in front of 4.5gr of Trail Boss and a Federal 150 Primer for 761fps and a PF of 175. I'll probably substitute a 155 though, which will probably give me a wee bit more velocity and more importantly, be more consistent. (I hope) What I don't understand is why people try to get their PF as low as possible. What's the advantage? BTW, the Single Stack class looked good to me... I'll run my Kimber and my Marlin Camp Carbine and just carry a dozen mags that are interchangeable, plus of course the shotgun ammo. What do you think about that class? All things being equal, is it more likely to be a bad choice for me or a good choice. I realize I'm kind of asking you to make a guess, but at the moment we're just "conversaten", so what's the harm?

Thanks Grump. And she is... Cancer is in remission again, shingles are gone and the treatments for the nerve disease worked... she's walking with a cane now. She's supposed to be going back home soon.

Which we AIN'T re-hashing, so don't get yer hopes up.

No... While getting the house and that room in particular straightened out, my Mother had her Bone Cancer come back, then had both shingles and Guillain–Barré syndrome piled on top of that. Lets just say that it was disruptive. So I am now back where I was the last time we spoke; with a good bit of work to be done so I can get my room set up the way I want it to be.

I've been considering getting into Competition, and I was thinking that 3-Gun or Cowboy Action. The problem is that I don't know that much about either, and Googling gets plenty of hits but a real paucity of good basic info. Mostly it's people DISCUSSING rather than EXPLAINING. First question is, do I have suitable hardware? In terms of Cowboy, I already have myself a .45-70 that should work well, and I can do BP loads if I want to. I do have a single action .44, but it's a Ruger Super-Blackhawk in .44magnum and has a 10" barrel, so I dunno if that's either allowed OR advisable. If not, I'll have to get myself a new pistol. Then there's 3-Gun, which I think appeals to me more because there's no dress code and is more akin to real life shooting situations than Cowboy Action. For the Shotgun portion I have Mossberg 500A and a Browning BPS and although either would work I figure the Browning would be better, based on the longer mag tube. I think it'll hold Eight 2.75" shells IIRC, although I've have to manually check to be sure. For the Pistol I have a nice Kimber 1911 that I think would work well. For Rifle portion I find myself wondering if a Marlin Camp Carbine in .45acp would work well, because I can't help thinking that the interchangeability of magazines would be a good thing. But again, I don't really know. If anyone can point me to some good resources for LEARNING about these two forms of competition, so that I can learn more and hopefully decide which is better suited for me, I would be grateful.

I have done some more research into this and I eventually came to the conclusion that the simplest thing to do when reloading .45-70 for the modern Marlin 1895, is to simply use the load data for the Marlin .450 In retrospect, the reason is obvious. Marlin saw a market for .45-70 fans who wanted to take advantage of the real strength of the 336 action that they used in their 1895s. But they also knew that simply convincing a mainstream ammo company to come out with more powerful loads for the .45-70 was problematic, because there were a LOT of .45-70 rifles out there that weren't anywhere near as strong as the 1895. So they came up with the idea of a "belted magnum" version of the .45-70 that wouldn't fit in a weapon that headspaces on the rim like the .45-70. But other than the belt, and of course the specific chamber for that ammo, the Marlin .450 actually IS a .45-70. I'd still like to find a rule of thumb for the variables though.... Case volume up = powder speed up/down Bullet weight up = powder speed up/down That sort of thing.

I know I'm a few weeks late to this, but what the heck... Stephen - Fort Silly, eh? Were you a Frakking Idiot Seeking Targets, or were you a Gun Bunny? Just curious. Anyway, in regards to your question: Please note that the following is only my OPINION, and I'm new to this reloading business. But perhaps, having recently gone through the same "what do I buy?" situation that you are currently experiencing, perhaps I can give you a useful perspective on the issue. With all due respect to Graham Smith, the first thing to do is NOT to determine what you want to reload, it's to determine your realistic budget for purchasing EVERYTHING you need to get started, which is not just a reloader, it includes brass, primers, powder, bullets, tools, accessories, books, and for many folks, either a new desk/bench or modifications to an existing one. As for reloaders... No matter what brand or model reloader you want to talk about, there is someone who hates it and someone who loves it. Having said that, Dillon is of course the Cadillac of re-loaders, and they do have a well deserved reputation for standing behind their equipment no matter what. Still, there are plenty of other options, and many of them will do quite well for you. Now, let me take two extremes: $500 budget versus $5000 budget, because they are easy. If you have a $5,000 budget, forget Dillon. Just buy a quality single stage reloader, the dies you need and your supplies; and start reloading. I think the Forster Co-Ax is a wonderful choice for that level, but there ARE other options. If you have a $500 budget, forget everything else EXCEPT Dillon. Now, there are three types of Dillon presses: Very Low Volume reloading, primarily for those who just want to reload one or two pistol calibers to make their practice sessions more affordable. Very High Volume reloading, primarily for those who need a "commercial" level of output in the most common rifle and pistol calibers. "Armory" reloaders, primarily for those who have multiple handguns and long guns, and with to reload for all of them. The first and second categories are, respectively, the Square Deal "B" and the 1050. That leaves the 550 and the 650. Most people should get the 550, because MOST people are going to want to reload maybe only a few hundred rounds of any one ammo at a time, and the 550 is well known for it's quick caliber changes. I got a 650, but then, I had slightly different needs. I wanted to do caliber changes, but I ALSO wanted the ability to rapidly crank out a thousand rounds of ammo any time I wanted. BE AWARE that if you decide to follow me down that path that you will ALSO end up spending money on what I think Brian calls his deluxe quick change kit. It's basically everything you need to have a complete toolhead setup with everything from Dies to Powder permanently mounted on the toolhead. It's still not as fast a changeout as a 550, but it's close. Oh, and... In MY opinion, there is no point in going this rather pricey route unless you buy an electric primer loader as well. One final thought... I have a half dozen calibers that I reload for and I have several more that I plan to add as time goes by. This can add up to quite a bit if you go my route of buying a 650 and then buying the things you need to make a 650 a "quick change capable" reloader. I think Brian bought a new Caddy after my purchase... The point is, unless you have a 1050 Budget, don't buy a 650 and plan to use it as a faster 550. Just buy the 550 to begin with. That's it. I hope I said something you can find to be useful.

Magic formula? Heck, I'd settle for a rule of thumb. I would settle for just having a rule of thumb that indicates to me whether I should look to a faster or slower powder when a given variable changes.

Well, knowing when to drop a line of thought is good too.

Thanks guys, good info. You know, one of the things I have been trying to put together is a sort of Rosetta Stone for reloading. A key... A formula... Basically, I want to be able to take ANY cartridge, and taking into account case volume, bullet diameter & weight, barrel length and whatever other variables I need, and make some educated guesses about what relative burn rate I would need in order to attain the velocities I'm looking for. Like here... I know that I want to be able to load a heavy bullet, certainly a 405grainer if not 500+. I know I want around 1500-1750fps But I haven't figured out what the common denominator is. Just to pull an example out of <cough> back pocket: Start with .35 Caliber straight-wall cartridge, 2" case length, 50gr capacity. Then change THIS or THAT and your powder speed needs to go up or down and by how much? I'm dreaming, right?

PLEASE NOTE: This is potentially the kind of question that get's me laughed at, yelled at, called a dumbass or worse. On the other hand, what's the point of having access to all the knowledge of a reloading forum if you can't use it as a reality check from time to time. ===================================================================================== I think the main thrust of my question could be summed up like so: If I'm reloading for a Year 2000 Marlin 1895G and I start loading "heavy", which one will fail on me first? The brass or the gun? Please understand, I don't want to necessarily search the outer limits of .45-70 velocity. My research, for what it's worth, tends to indicate that big, hard, heavy bullets at mid-teen velocities are what works well in .45-70. So basically, I am interested in perhaps seeing what slower powders and heavier bullets seem to be capable of. Understand, I don't have a particular goal here, it's just something I'm curious about and since I have the equipment to experiment, I figure why not? My concern though is that since .45-70 was originally intended for B.P. use, the brass may not be as strong as rounds intended for magnum loads from the very beginning. Naturally, I don't think I even have to consider reloading the old balloon-head brass. I was thinking in terms of modern brass, and the first one that comes to mind is Starline, because of their rep for value & quality. But of course, I don't know how strong that brass is. I was looking at a list of "what -ifs" and it occurred to me that I could probably re-size the .500 Alaskan, since the rim diameter is so close and the thickness just the same. But then I remember that THAT round is a re-sized .348WCF, and I have no idea what kind of strength THAT case has. So, I figured I'd ask... Is modern, factory made brass from Starline or any other company strong enough that there are no PRACTICAL concerns, since I would have hit max load before I need to start worrying about brass? Or is it fairly weak? If I can toss out a piggyback question to this, what about my thoughts of going with slower and slower powders? I did a casual search and found loads for the .45-70 as slow as H335 or 4064. But what about even slower? Seriously, take it to an extreme, like... Could there be a Retumbo load for .45-70?

Thank you for your input Grump.

Graham - If I understand your question it relates to skill. In other words, while it may be true that "Precision" reloading will produce higher quality finished products than "Progressive" reloading; do I have sufficient skill to make the difference matter? In complete honesty, I don't think I have a sufficient level of skill for it to matter at the moment. Will I develop that level of skill? Time will tell. However, filling MY desires for top quality ammo is only half the picture. I have several friends who have expressed a desire to purchase ammo of that quality if I can actually produce it. Not that doing so would really be a money making proposition as a PRACTICAL matter, but this is more about feeding my need to be the "Alpha Nerd", even though it's outside of the normal geek range of interests. How big a nerd am I? Have you seen my avatar?