IPSC wants to limit SG rules

[bigbrowndog]

While we generally do not play by IPSC rules, these proposals have a very far reaching potential. I feel we should address them with our RD, M. Voigt. Before they become bound in stone, they have the potential to affect us here in the US as well.

Practical Shotgun is not nearly as popular here as it is overseas, but we should do something about this while we can. This year we will be hosting the PanAm SG match and will have the opportunity to see just how popular PSG is in the world. The restrictions proposed by the GA and the IPSC president are in my opinion, too restrictive to allow the future of PSG to grow.

please take the time to read this thread and remember that what IPSC does trickles down to us eventually.

http://ipsc.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=10438&st=0

Trapr

[Jesse Tischauser]

After reading that thread I am once again glad to live here in the good ole USA. If I can only load two shells at a time I might as well go shoot trap.

[A33435]

After reading that thread I am once again glad to live here in the good ole USA. If I can only load two shells at a time I might as well go shoot trap.

That is depending the length of those cartridges Jesse....

Well, it is a good thing Trapr starts a thread.

In this case i would say bad news travels fast.

I stated my opinion already on the dutch, german and GV forums what is left now is to get my RD to vote against the proposed rulechanges.

Greetings

Adrie

[outerlimits]

looks like u have 2 register to access the file. anyone wanna post it here?

[ShooterSteve]

There are allready enough rules. There is a good class for most types of shooters, with a good way to set up a gun for each class. What are they going to do, rename open to "well, it's kinda like open, but not really"?

[Nik Habicht]

looks like u have 2 register to access the file. anyone wanna post it here?

There is no file, per se. It's a forum with a discussion thread. You need to register, with your real name if you wish to participate....

[D.Hayden]

Sounds like someone on the rules committee had small hands and couldn't hold 4 shells.. lol

[Chuck Anderson]

I posted my response over at GV. I've already expressed my displeasure with the rules to Michael. I personally believe this is the worst possible move that IPSC could make, at possibly the worst possible time.

[Wakal]

IPSC SHOTGUN

------------

The overall success and future of IPSC Shotgun was discussed at

length and rule revisions for the 2011 General Assembly were recommended.

-Ammunition

A minimum cartridge length (to be determined) will be recommended.

-Ammunition Carriers

All ammunition shall be carried on a single belt at waist level with

a restriction to a maximum of 2 rounds high, one above the other.

-Open Division

A maximum of 11 rounds loaded at the start.

The size of detachable magazines be restricted to 5 rounds.

Speedloading tube be restricted to a maximum of 6 rounds.

Revolving magazine tubes will not be permitted.

-Standard Division

If Modified Division is voted to be dropped at the 2011 General

Assembly, ported barrels (but not compensators) will be permitted in

Standard Division.

(from the same thread): It seems that they want Modified shotgun to be deleted (and then) barrel porting to be allowed in Standard, and all rounds must be carried at waist level no more than two rounds high. They are still arguing about the six and four round "California Competition Works" type (and now "Mark Otto" ) carriers, and Side-Saddles.

Direct quote from Neil Beverly: "There is a concern about the current look and feel of IPSC Shotgun. There is very strong IPSC support for the discipline to grow and be expanded within existing and across additional IPSC Regions. The President's Council feels that these proposed changes will provide the best platform for future growth. It is accepted, and with regret, that the proposals will not suit everyone."

Direct quote from Vince Pinto: “We need to strike a balance. When I see such long magazines and "suicide bomber" shell carriers and additional shells carried on the arms and even more shells carried on the belt, I think it's time to step back and determine if that's the "sporting" image we want to portray in IPSC. I think it's getting way out of hand .....”

Amazing.

Alex

Edited March 2, 2010 by Wakal

[Doug H.]

I posted this on IGV:

It's fairly obvious that somebody doesn't like mag fed shotguns but maximum 5 rounds in a mag, you've go to be kidding, even USPSA allows 10. Just another reason that IPSC and USPSA will go the way of the Dodo and Outlaw matches will continue to be over subscribed, too many foolish rules. I've already signed up for the Pan Am match but if this goes through I'll be asking for my money back.

Doug

[bigbrowndog]

The PanAm may be the venue to voice your opinions, provided the powers that be haven't already made their collective minds up.

Personally the proposals, disgust me.

Trapr

Edited March 2, 2010 by bigbrowndog

[patrickbeijer]

I allready made some posts on global village ,and i really think that Mr Alexakos problem is that he wants to be seen with the guys with the fancy jackets at ISSF. And that he is willing to change (kill) our game completly to get that goal he made for himself.

Why should laws restrict our sport when he does the job

[Chuck Anderson]

I posted this on IGV:

It's fairly obvious that somebody doesn't like mag fed shotguns but maximum 5 rounds in a mag, you've go to be kidding, even USPSA allows 10. Just another reason that IPSC and USPSA will go the way of the Dodo and Outlaw matches will continue to be over subscribed, too many foolish rules. I've already signed up for the Pan Am match but if this goes through I'll be asking for my money back.

Doug

These are just proposed rules that won't be voted on until 2011 at the earliest (although they said that about the last round of pistol rule changes as well). The Pan Am will be run under the current rules so no worries about that.

[smokshwn]

This sig line is so full of IRONY it caused me to lie down.

"Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talking (King Of The Hill)"

[BigDave]

Do other IPSC member countries host other practical shotgun matches held under modified rules? Something like the RM3G or IMGA rules?

It isn't as if anyone needs IPSC to host a SG match. Rather, it seems to be other way around (yet the tail still seems to wag the dog?).

[Doug H.]

I posted this on IGV:

It's fairly obvious that somebody doesn't like mag fed shotguns but maximum 5 rounds in a mag, you've go to be kidding, even USPSA allows 10. Just another reason that IPSC and USPSA will go the way of the Dodo and Outlaw matches will continue to be over subscribed, too many foolish rules. I've already signed up for the Pan Am match but if this goes through I'll be asking for my money back.

Doug

These are just proposed rules that won't be voted on until 2011 at the earliest (although they said that about the last round of pistol rule changes as well). The Pan Am will be run under the current rules so no worries about that.

Thanks Chuck, that makes me feel a little better, since I already paid for everything. But it's still unfortunate, Open class is ment to push the sport to create new innovations. If they're not going to allow innovation we might as well just shoot coach guns like the cowboys.

Doug

Edited for spelling, which sucks as usual.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Doug H.

[mike.45]

They are not banning shell caddies where shells are stacked horizontally but have taken a severe dislike to the shells stacked on top of each other vertically like a lot of the German shooters use.

Stupid is as stupid does.

[bigbrowndog]

just because they are not banning the loading accessories that we use NOW!!! doesn't mean they won't in the future.

Every other country uses IPSC rules for the practical matches they hold, it would be nice if it weren't so, because then there would be nothing to worry about.

trapr

[Bryan 45]

I'm so sick of PC. Yes, we use real firearms, firing deadly ammunition, at targets that are designed to simulate a human.

I personally don't see a problem with that. It's never going to be an Olympic sport due to the people that want all firearms completely banned. So why sugar-coat it?

[smokshwn]

I'm so sick of PC. Yes, we use real firearms, firing deadly ammunition, at targets that are designed to simulate a human.

I personally don't see a problem with that. It's never going to be an Olympic sport due to the people that want all firearms completely banned. So why sugar-coat it?

It's being sugar coated because even those (insert darth vader character here) who should be resisting it feel that the participants gear "looks" too controversial. Instead of taking a stance of education, and reassurance that IPSC competitors pose no threat. IPSC adminitstration has agreed with a populace that is easily scared by inanimate objects.

A statement such as this should never be put forth by someone who has leadership influence in a shooting organization.

" We need to strike a balance. When I see such long magazines and "suicide bomber" shell carriers and additional shells carried on the arms and even more shells carried on the belt, I think it's time to step back and determine if that's the "sporting" image we want to portray in IPSC.

I think it's getting way out of hand ....."

If you feel we are not sporting enough please feel free to step down and find another hobby for yourself.

[J.Schmitt]

" We need to strike a balance. When I see such long magazines and "suicide bomber" shell carriers and additional shells carried on the arms and even more shells carried on the belt, I think it's time to step back and determine if that's the "sporting" image we want to portray in IPSC.

I RESENT that someone would even associate the word "suicide bomber" with competative shooting much less the connotation. When was the last time a competative shooter committed murdered? Can someone answer this. I've never heard of a single incident. But, please correct me if I am wrong.

The above statement sure puts other peoples mindset in perspective.

Jay

[BigDave]

Who, exactly, is being offended anyway?

[Jadeslade]

A guy and his coterie. I am surprised that Neil Beverley is involved in this. Very disappointing. It would not be above IPSC to change the rules before the PanAm shotgun match, regardless of what has been said here. Remember the IPSC Global Village Forum is very small-I think around five thousand members. However, most of the posting is done by a small group of very sarcastic and belligerent members. The main moderator is a prime offender. His comments are more offensive and harmful to the sport than any mall ninja with shells taped to his arm. It is nothing like this forum. I stopped reading it because it is often puerile and simply not informative. The actual IPSC clubs that I am aware of in Europe and South America are real shooters and have the same interests and positive attitudes that shooters here do. There is a problem in IPSC, but is confined to a few bellicose individuals. I hope they leave or are forced to leave.

[LChico]

I posted this on IGV:

It's fairly obvious that somebody doesn't like mag fed shotguns but maximum 5 rounds in a mag, you've go to be kidding, even USPSA allows 10. Just another reason that IPSC and USPSA will go the way of the Dodo and Outlaw matches will continue to be over subscribed, too many foolish rules. I've already signed up for the Pan Am match but if this goes through I'll be asking for my money back.

Doug

Hi Doug.

Please tell me what attendance at the Pan Am Shotgun Championship has to do with your objection to these proposed rule changes.

These are PROPOSED rules and the vote will not occur until after the Pan Am Match. The Pan Am will run under current rules.

The RD's vote. There will be a few RD's at Pan Am. Please follow Chuck Anderson's example and express your concern about the proposed rule changes to Michael Voigt.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Co-Match Director

2010 IPSC PanAm Shotgun Championship

[Vlad]

I wont bother with that forum but someone should post a link to the SASS rules. They are getting to be remarkably similar in ammunition location requirements. Seriously, check it out: http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/RO/SASSHandbook-16-2010.pdf