Revolver Specific Skills

[coldchar]

I was at a plateau on my USPSA revolver shooting when I found a new trning technique which helped both my speed and accuracy.

Picked up a little Taurus 94, kind of a J frame 22. Very light with a terrible trigger. Starting going to the range and setting up targets at 25 yards. Got out the timer and just did draw and shoot one round with the goal of maximizing speed consistent with an A Hit. Did it for between 50 & 100 rounds then called it quits. After the first 25 or so draws and shoots would mix in some double taps just for variety and transitioning between targets.

My speed for the first shot stayed in the 3 plus second range but my ability to hit consistently the A zone at 25 yards gradually improved, and so did my focus and concentration. Made all the shorter distances so much easier and faster.

jim

[True Grit]

Try and find "YOU CAN'T MISS" by John Shaw. In the early days he wrote the book that gave me the most help for shooting a revolver at matches.

Also get "FAST AND FANCY REVOLVER SHOOTING" Ed Migivern

What you learn in Brian's book will help you with your revolver shooting and Mental Control, Something you must learn to be able to shoot well.

After stumbling across this post about a week or so ago I went out and picked up both of these books and got a lot out of them, thanks Azshooter. I have had Brians book for a few months now and have gotten a lot out of it, more so every time I go back to it. No second place winner by Bill Jordan is up there as well in my " Revo Bible" collection. For me, picking up a S&W 617 has really helped my shooting by being able to afford to put more rounds down range, especially in improving my weak hand shooting.

[RevolverJockey]

Can anyone shed some light on where these books can be found?

Lee

[cyberiad]

Can anyone shed some light on where these books can be found?

Lee

Try one of these sites that specialize in old and out of print books (I assume that both of them are).

http://www.abebooks.com

http://www.alibris.com/

There may be others but these are the only two I have used.

Edited February 23, 2011 by cyberiad

[True Grit]

Can anyone shed some light on where these books can be found?

Lee

I found used copies of both for $7-$10 on Amazon.

[West Texas Granny]

Do you suggest chamfering the cylinder and if you do what specs for a S&W 25-2

[No.343]

Don't rub against a barrel. Your moonclips will get knocked down to the ground.

[haggis]

A few strategy things...

• Look at unconventional ways to shoot a stage. When you have less ammo per reload, don't think like the Limited guys.
• Think six shots or less. You can sometimes give yourself more convenient reloads (on the move) if you shoot two or four. Example from yesterday: two 2-target arrays followed by three 3-target arrays - all reloads on the move.
• Don't always shoot a target if it requires an extra reload. Another example: steel activated drop turner with two additional paper. One shot at steel, two at one paper, one at exposed drop turner, and two at the other paper. The not-shot mike on the drop turner was not scored as a mike because the target disappeared.

Buck

[PJones1911]

It would be worth getting Jerry Miculek's CD on practicing with a revolver. He is the best. He recommends keeping the cylinder turning at all times while shooting.

[alecmc]

Any insight on how to produce consistent solid reloads ? More often then not I'm fumbling a reload, sometimes I can nail a nice one. Problem area I think in actually inserting new moonclip. Lining it up on the fly is an issue.

I understand it takes practice, I admire the guys who are almost robotic with their reloads. But looking for tips.

[No.343]

Sam Keen told me that to get fast I had to learn to throw the clips in the gun. I had no clue what he was talking about. I probably still don't. However, I found that my smoother reloads happen when the axis of the cartridges are parallel to the axis of the cylinder. The best way that I found to consistently do that is to find a sweet spot to hold the revolver while dropping in the moonclips. With my Speed-e-rack I find that if I hold the butt of the gun about belt high and hold the cylinder under the clip I can just barely pick up the moonclip to clear the rack and just drop it.

[toothguy]

Sam Keen told me that to get fast I had to learn to throw the clips in the gun. I had no clue what he was talking about. I probably still don't. However, I found that my smoother reloads happen when the axis of the cartridges are parallel to the axis of the cylinder. The best way that I found to consistently do that is to find a sweet spot to hold the revolver while dropping in the moonclips. With my Speed-e-rack I find that if I hold the butt of the gun about belt high and hold the cylinder under the clip I can just barely pick up the moonclip to clear the rack and just drop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKz5BFS3Tk

Skip ahead to 1:21

Edited January 9, 2013 by toothguy

[alecmc]

Sam Keen told me that to get fast I had to learn to throw the clips in the gun. I had no clue what he was talking about. I probably still don't. However, I found that my smoother reloads happen when the axis of the cartridges are parallel to the axis of the cylinder. The best way that I found to consistently do that is to find a sweet spot to hold the revolver while dropping in the moonclips. With my Speed-e-rack I find that if I hold the butt of the gun about belt high and hold the cylinder under the clip I can just barely pick up the moonclip to clear the rack and just drop it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNKz5BFS3Tk

Skip ahead to 1:21

from the 3 point line, that's crazy

[alecmc]

Wanted to bring up again the topic of " staging " the trigger. I been watching a bunch of matts videos lately ( thanks griffin for sharing them ) and others, and I cant help but notice that they usually always have a solid continuous follow through of the trigger pull

I typically always stage the trigger for shots of any medium distance or further, I keep a pretty deep trigger finger, the face of the trigger rests between my first and second knuckle. I stage it as such when the tip of my trigger finger makes contact with the frame I know the shot is about to break. I dont know if this is just some bad habits becoming worse habits, or just as simple as - " whatever works! "

Looking for some insight or thoughts on this, thanks

Edited February 26, 2013 by alecmc

[Bubber]

Almecec, it dependss on your abilty, confidence, and difficulty of the shot. Except on the 25 to 50 yards shots, that are extremely rare in USPSA matches, I try to roll the cylinder all the way through the arrays. My focus changes at certain distances to focusing on the target, focusing on the front sight, and looking through the front and rear sight to the target. But then again I may be the anomolly. Later rdd

[Matt Griffin]

Wanted to bring up again the topic of " staging " the trigger. I been watching a bunch of matts videos lately ( thanks griffin for sharing them ) and others, and I cant help but notice that they usually always have a solid continuous follow through of the trigger pull

I typically always stage the trigger for shots of any medium distance or further, I keep a pretty deep trigger finger, the face of the trigger rests between my first and second knuckle. I stage it as such when the tip of my trigger finger makes contact with the frame I know the shot is about to break. I dont know if this is just some bad habits becoming worse habits, or just as simple as - " whatever works! "

Looking for some insight or thoughts on this, thanks

By no means am I going to say "don't do what is working for you." Josh Lentz, for example, stages the hell out of his trigger on long shots. My trigger pull is a secondary result of my sight picture, and I think I might even slow down or speed up slightly during the pull based on what I'm seeing, unconsciously. I was watching my hammer in those same videos (I don't video very much, but all the recent subscribers made me feel guilty) and it seemed like on longer shots I would get on the trigger faster and then ease back until I found the right speed to finish with.

What I'm seeing is this: Sights wobbling after recoil/reload/remount/draw, sights settling, then A. Sights too settled? Speed up! B. Sights not settled enough? Slow down!

My dryfire practice is based around watching the sight stay in the rear notch no matter how fast I pull through, so that's probably a lot of why I can and do pull through continuously.

[toothguy]

Shooting a revolver in Bianchi, due to the par times, requires you to start the trigger pull before the sights are on target. My finger is starting to pull just after my grip is completed as my hands come together. I usually start the pull faster then slow down in the middle as I acquire the sight picture then pull through without hesitation. Once you start the trigger pull you are commited, the revolver should be ready to go off just as the gun comes to the end of the draw.

Get Jerry's Ultimate Advanced Revolver CD it's a must have for a revolver shooter. He talks about the revolver shooter being on a time schedule and avoiding a dead gun. It's a great resource that you can watch every year or so and pickup something new.

http://www.bang-inc....&products_id=11

Edited February 26, 2013 by toothguy

[alecmc]

Thanks for the replies, I've been trying to work a little harder to keep the revolver and sights rock steady during dry fire, the sights will wobble around a bit, but nothing crazy.

I also feel I might be doing this to line the sights up better with my left eye ( right handed/left eye dominant ), so the revolver is a bit " off center " to line up better with my left eye.

Hard to explain, here is a picture of what i'm better trying to explain: ( my hand really doesnt jerk like that, had to reposition for the two pictures , ha )

Edited February 27, 2013 by alecmc

[toothguy]

The most accurate means of shooting a DA revolver in DA mode that does not have "stop" is to keep the trigger moving. It can be moved slow, or moved fast but the speed should be constant once movement has begun. Once movement has begun it should continue uninterupted, or the shot should be abandoned. (very few exceptions to this)

Having said above, there are some PPC shooters whom have set up their DA mode with a trigger stop. Trigger stop adjustment is more than overtravel adjustment. With the PPC style trigger stop on a revo, there is a definite (positive) stop of the trigger just before let off. In some guns the finger can actually be removed from the trigger and the hammer will stay toward the rear and the hammer cocked. In this mode the final pull is a feel like a SA pull. Most shooters that I am aware off who use this set up actually do not stop pulling the trigger. The initial pull (DA) is the same it's is just that toward the final or last trigger travel there is an opportunity to dress up the sight alignment. The dressing during this last stage can actually make things worse as one may have a tendency to ambush the trigger when things get perfect!

Like most shooting the fine tuning of some of these techniques takes time to master, and a thorough understanding of what it really takes to deliver accurate shots on demand, every time.

MJ

[coldchar]

A few strategy things...

• Look at unconventional ways to shoot a stage. When you have less ammo per reload, don't think like the Limited guys.
  
• Think six shots or less. You can sometimes give yourself more convenient reloads (on the move) if you shoot two or four. Example from yesterday: two 2-target arrays followed by three 3-target arrays - all reloads on the move.
  
• Don't always shoot a target if it requires an extra reload. Another example: steel activated drop turner with two additional paper. One shot at steel, two at one paper, one at exposed drop turner, and two at the other paper. The not-shot mike on the drop turner was not scored as a mike because the target disappeared.
  

Buck

It would have been scored as a mike just not a penalty mike. Also no failure to engage penalty would apply on a disappearing target.

Jim

[coldchar]

Here is what I gathered from the great advice you guys gave me so far. This sounds like a checklist of things to practice.

1. Investigate grips. I am running the stock grip on my 625. I dislike finger grooves, so I ground off the finger grooves. Yes I am that kind of cheap. I haven't found any reason to buy "nice" ones yet. I'll be looking for easier reloads, but have been warned that the recoil might feel worse.

2. Polish the chambers on the cylinder. I don't think I had any problems there, but sometimes when inserting a new moonclip at an angle the rounds just seem like they get stuck. Now this is with my dummy rounds and it seems like the bullets are pushed in slightly. I am out of town and don't have a bullet puller, so I can't fix that yet.

3. Become a better shot. I'll never master this, but will keep trying.

4. Learn to count to six.

5. "plan your reloads to get there with enough rounds in the gun to deal with it" Those sound like words to live by.

6. "muttering obscenities while stuffing fresh sixes in the gun"

7. "...divorce your trigger finger from the rest of your hands and let it work completely separately from everything else."

8. "Don't start pulling the trigger until the sights are on the target." There seems to be some discussion of this item, but considering the source, it goes on the list.

9. "Once you start pulling the trigger, do not vary your pull speed until the gun fires." Do you use the same speed of trigger pull on every shot regardless of difficulty?

10. Strategize, move smoothly, and economize your motion. I can work on these for the rest of my life.

11. Always shoot for A's. Maybe I should move this one to the top of the list. I usually do this, but on targets with no-shoots or targets with off balance positions I shoot center of mass of the "easy" part. Should I make the effort to gamble on shooting while off balance more often for a point or two?

12. Do lots of reloads but don't do anything unethical like practice. Learn to do a reload on two steps. That's gonna be hard.

13. Work on finger strength. I need to do this for my weak hand too.

14. Don't be afraid to take a longer shot to make the stage flow better.

15. Learn to reload with the revo high, medium and low.

You guys are great. Thanks

The speed of the trigger pull will vary with difficulty. A 3 yard in your face target is not the same as a 50 yard target.

Not rotating the cylinder between targets? Figure on another fraction of a second between each target.

Reloading procedure between shooting positions, you will have to time yourself given your particular skills and physiology.

[Koppi]

Has anyone else noticed that dry fire just does not cut it for re-load training? I did a lot of it, (dry fire). Went to the range and found out, it's not even close the the real thing when it comes to the un-load, re-load.

Need more ammo---

I did watch the JM vid up on here and learned a lot from a 5 sec clip right at the end.

[Dragon11]

How are you dryfiring? Is dryfiring the exact same as live fire practice, well no. But its much cheaper, in my humble opinion, to work on problem solving by dryfiring then with live fire practice. If you dryfire in the right manner, i.e. the types of dryfire drills your doing, then I think you can balance it out. I'm no great one, but before I start to think dryfiring isn't working, I would think about if there is something I can do different to make it to make it fit my needs.

[Carmoney]

Has anyone else noticed that dry fire just does not cut it for re-load training? I did a lot of it, (dry fire). Went to the range and found out, it's not even close the the real thing when it comes to the un-load, re-load.

Need more ammo---

I totally agree.

Dry-fire is no substitute for the real thing.

[pskys2]

It's most useful for muscle memory training, without which you just can't reach your ultimate speed.