Revolver Specific Skills

[alecmc]

Didn't feel like making a new thread for this, but with the abundance of skills books, dry fire books, really geared toward semi shooters, is there anything out there worth a read for revolver guys?

Winter is coming up, and while I still hit my local matches, I want to spend some time improving for next season.

If nothing revo based, is there something out there you would recommend that helped you?

[seanc]

Didn't feel like making a new thread for this, but with the abundance of skills books, dry fire books, really geared toward semi shooters, is there anything out there worth a read for revolver guys?

Winter is coming up, and while I still hit my local matches, I want to spend some time improving for next season.

If nothing revo based, is there something out there you would recommend that helped you?

Reloads.

It was on tv the other night, Jerry on impossible shots. He was doing 1.60-1.70 reloads on a 10 yard piece of steel shot to shot back to back, bang, reload, bang, reload, bang....he did that blind folded btw...

I was exceedingly proud of myself with a 1.90 on a 5 yard target....

I now know what my par time needs to move down to.

Seriously though, aside from reloads, the difference between semi's and auto's is the trigger pull as far as I can tell.

Ben Stoegers books are really good...

edit...and as a student of listening to every word miculek says and trying to understand(I can't but I try) something I here him say time and time again is to "stay in the visual". He has a youtube clip where talks about this a bit and relates being visual to watching the process happen at a speed you can "see", you are both executing the action and an observer. I interpret this as, if you can see it happening then that is within your ability, if you are moving faster than you can see and recognize the action/step, then you are outside your current ability. This is also when things go wrong in my experience.

What do you see when you are doing a reload for example, and what do you need to see if you want to have a sub 2 second match speed reload?

What is different? Do you see the moonclip? the gun? a charge hole? the bullets? all of them, none of them?

That is just an open question, because I don't know but I am trying to figure it out...

Edited October 30, 2013 by seanc

[alecmc]

Thanks Sean,

While my reloads aren't super spectacular, they are decent and pretty solid, though - I do intend on practicing.

Yesterdays practice session we were practicing draw - fire - reload - fire , on to an 8" steel plate at about 7 yards.

My typical draw time on to the 8" plate was about 1.30-1.50, reloads were about 2.10-2.75 on splits back on to the 8" plate.

I'm sure I could prob shave a few tenths off blasting away on a close uspsa target, I really do not want the base of my practice to be on great speed with what would probably be sloppy results.

I feel my need for improvments are in my non shooting movements, I TRY to keep moving forward at all times, but upon review there are a times when the time is ticking away and i'm not moving forward.

Calling shots, Last match I had alot of issues with over driving and getting alot of Alpha - Charlie hits, I think I'm transitioning before my 2nd shot breaks.

Maybe I will look into getting bens book and giving it a read, couldnt hurt.

Thanks

[FWSixgunner]

How do I reduce first-shot dwell-ltime? Going from holster or reload back on target, I'm slow with the first round. And I almost invariably put it a couple inches out about 3:00.

Thanks!

[Bubber]

FWSixgunner, I run into the same issue. The thing is to get the cylinder turning as you approach the target and once you get the sight picture needed, break the shot. My old habit was get a good sight picture then start pulling the trigger.

[toothguy]

FWSixgunner, If you don't have Jerry Miculek's Advanced Revolver video it's really a must have. There is a portion where he talks about keeping the cylinder moving (dead gun principal) and the revolver shooter being on a time schedule. I have watched it many times and still watch parts of it occasionally.

[toothguy]

[FWSixgunner]

FWSixgunner, If you don't have Jerry Miculek's Advanced Revolver video it's really a must have. There is a portion where he talks about keeping the cylinder moving (dead gun principal) and the revolver shooter being on a time schedule. I have watched it many times and still watch parts of it occasionally.

Thanks, ordered it yesterday.

[FWSixgunner]

OK, here's a tip from a relative noob who is just learning the Jerry Miculek techniques:

When you use the high hold on a revolver with the web of your hand over the top of the grip frame (which I highly recommend, much better control), you have to roll your wrists forward to compensate for the different grip angle.

After draw or reload, remember to get your wrists into the correct position before bringing the gun to target, otherwise your front sight will be be way too high when it gets there.

That may be obvious to everyone else, but it took me a while:-)

[Matt Griffin]

How do I reduce first-shot dwell-ltime? Going from holster or reload back on target, I'm slow with the first round. And I almost invariably put it a couple inches out about 3:00.

Thanks!

The long answer is that you need to develop the mental strategy to execute a trigger pull appropriate to the target at hand. It becomes a "feel" that you don't have to think about, driven by the desire for an Alpha.

For instance, a split shot (grip, stance, etc. already established) at 50 yards is about the same difficulty as a shot from the draw at 10 yards. Consider .4 to get the gun out and moving, the remaining .6 or so is in bringing the gun up and letting the shot go after you've seen enough of a sight picture. Call it a .6 split, then.

Everything feeds into this, nerves, exhaustion, movement, bad grip, etc. They all inform your brain as to the difficulty of the current shot, and by doing so dictate your correct trigger speed to execute. The trap is trying to predetermine the trigger speed. It's impossible. You watch me nail a draw, get a perfect grip, and let the shot go seemingly as soon as the gun reaches my eyes and you might think that's the correct speed for the shot. It isn't. It's just the correct speed for that particular shot, and will never happen exactly the same way again. I could run the stage a hundred times and I'm going to catch the grip too low, miss the weak hand coming on, put my finger in the wrong spot on the trigger, think about my crappy hotel room, etc. They all feed into a feeling about the shot at hand and your brain adjusts automatically to achieve the result. When everything is flowing perfectly you have the luxury of waiting on your finger. However, 90% of the time your finger is waiting on your brain, which has been slowed down by your mistakes.

Specifically to your question, you reduce your draw time/shot time by locking in the early parts of the draw, and your brain should start cycling the trigger midway up because it knows the sight picture will be there when it arrives. You can't fool your brain about this, it's like training a dog. It has to see enough iterations of it happening before it will trust itself to start the pull.

Train for the alphas and let your brain do the heavy lifting on "what?" and "how?" Constantly push yourself into failure territory, but do so as a training technique and not as a desire to get to a specific time or hit factor. Those things are results, not strategies.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Matt Griffin

[Carmoney]

Great observations, Matt. I agree 100%.

[ZackJones]

Not necessarily a skill but more of a training tip. Spend a little time video taping yourself as you practice. I did this when practicing reloading recently and found that sometimes I used my thumb to eject the moon clip and other times I used my index finger. That meant I wasn't gripping the gun the same way each time. I probably never would have picked up on that if I hadn't video taped myself doing reloads.

[KnurlingTurtle]

I'm doing something wrong with my grip.

I'm right handed and I tried a high hand grip with my 627 using .357mag two weekends ago. The S&W raised logo took off lots of skin on the inside of my thumb because of my grip, friction and recoil.

Like a dummy, it wasn't healed and I shot the 627 yesterday. It's like I couldn't help but use the high grip. I didn't even think about it and my hand went to the exact spot that rips off my skin. So that sucked.

What should I do? I could shave down the raised logo on the factory rubber grip but I have a suspicion I'm doing something totally wrong.

[Matt Griffin]

I'm doing something wrong with my grip.

I'm right handed and I tried a high hand grip with my 627 using .357mag two weekends ago. The S&W raised logo took off lots of skin on the inside of my thumb because of my grip, friction and recoil.

Like a dummy, it wasn't healed and I shot the 627 yesterday. It's like I couldn't help but use the high grip. I didn't even think about it and my hand went to the exact spot that rips off my skin. So that sucked.

What should I do? I could shave down the raised logo on the factory rubber grip but I have a suspicion I'm doing something totally wrong.

Of course it's a guess without seeing you, but you're probably under compressed on your strong hand. The back of the grip needs to be in line with your arm and you need to squoosh the flesh of your palm until you a positive connection between the frame and your hand bones. If the gun is able to spend time accelerating while your hands are static, as in it is compressing your thumb flesh rather than feeding into your platform, then you get enhanced recoil and wear. A good grip should make it so that you don't even feel the shot in your hands. It's all in the wrist and arms.

[KnurlingTurtle]

Thanks for that Matt.

[hopalong]

Seanc

reloads are mostly a muscle memory type of thing (why Jerry can do it blind folded) when l am really in the groove and practiced up to get in that groove lt ( reload ) zeems like a slow blur of time. I know what is going on but dont pay much attention to anything special. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Here is the kicker unless something isnt correct. Gun @ wrong angle, or wrong feel of the reload( moonclip, speedloader ect.) in the hand, or not a good " thunk " from the moon going in smoothly ect. Those things are the things that should be "automatic " unless something is " wrong "

Hopalong

edit for clarity.

I see what isnt is correct. Dont care if it is correct and dont pay that any attention. If that stuff is correct then l'm paying attention to targets. Footwork ect.

Edited January 23, 2014 by hopalong

[FWSixgunner]

I'm having trouble getting the palm of my shooting hand in contact with the grip when drawing. I end up gripping with just the fingers & heel of the hand.

Grips don't matter. I'm currently running Hogue JMs on my M66.

My draw technique is to start with the thumb & web of the hand over the top strap (high grip) to get my hand oriented on the grip, then roll the rest of the hand over the grip.

Should I just draw then set the grip when my hands meet?

[COF]

Practice getting your grip from the get go. Sure you can make adjustments but it just slows you down. Your first contact should be the web of your hand at the top of the grip frame. If you're not hitting that - move your gun so it sits where your hand comes down. Don't worry about drawing the gun, just practice getting your grip again and again until you can hit it every time.

For a fat old man who can't see for crap anymore, I've got a decent draw and that's what makes it work for me.

[one-gun]

What has helped me get a more consistent good grip from draw is to put my hand on the gun in the holster as I want it to end up at the draw, then move my hand back to the starting position, whether it's hands at sides or above shoulders. Seems to be a muscle memory thing. The hand just needs to return on the path it just came from. I do the same with the weak hand only it goes from start position to touch the top of my belly then meets the strong hand and the gun at my chest and extends out towards the target so I can start to align the sights.

I also try to minimize the moving parts while i'm going for the draw. So i put my head/eyes where the gun will end up in front of them, try not to shift my weight on the draw, or move anything more than it has to.

What I continue to learn the hard way is taking the time to get a good grip is always better than rushing and getting a less good grip and trying to adjust while sending bad hits or mikes down range.