38 Super versus 9mm major

[Foxbat]

I am quite familiar with the 38 Super... why would someone prefer the 9 major?

I am sure this has been covered before, so if anyone has a link that would do.

[fl3gun]

I am quite familiar with the 38 Super... why would someone prefer the 9 major?

I am sure this has been covered before, so if anyone has a link that would do.

Cheap Surplus Brass

[Foxbat]

Makes sense... thank you!

[RV man]

What he said. Everything else depends on the particular pistol and load. My 9mm runs and I am very happy with it.

Bill

[mlmiller1]

The magazine length of a glock will not work for 38 super so if a person wants an open glock, it will be in 9mm.

MLM

[calishootr]

the initial story out here, was oooh cheap brass, but then as things are shaking out, the components goin nuts, range brass being scooped up(least at my range) and the factthat with 9mm major most are only getting 3 loadings on their brass??? versus my 38 supers that have 10+ loadings on them? and in the beginning the guns were finiky(i thinkthat is shaking itself out as more people share in the info of making and keeping a 9mm major gun happy) me??? i waaaay too far into 38 super to change at this point, the toys are running good, gots lots of brass etc...ill stay with 38 super...

[GrumpyOne]

To me, the brass thing pretty much says it all. All in favor of 38 super that is. While it is true you can't find super laying around at most ranges, when you buy a new lot of brass, you know you are getting new brass. With 9mm "once fired" are you absolutely certain it's only "once fired"?

Last time I bought super brass, they were about 7 cents each from Starline. Get 10+ loads from them, that drops the cost down to less than a penny per piece. Now, with everybody scooping up 9mm brass for major (and only getting 3 - 4 loadings from each), the cost of "once fired" 9mm brass is sure to go up. I forsee a mild exodus back to super in the future....

[RH45]

When I originally had my first open gun built, I'd asked about having it built in 9mm, and was talked out of it, and had it built in .38 Supercomp. I picked up a used open gun in 9mm, a couple of years ago, and it was a jam-o-matic, but, with once-fired, Winchester brass, it has never missed a beat.

I like them both, but, I've been buying once-fired 9mm brass for $25-$30 per thousand, and for that, I won't even bend over to pick it up.

[Pezco]

I'm hoping more folks make the switch to 9 Open. I am prepared to buy their used 38 SC brass.

[GrumpyOne]

I'm hoping more folks make the switch to 9 Open. I am prepared to buy their used 38 SC brass.

Or their new brass, since they won't need it anymore!

[G-ManBart]

Lots of info in this thread:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=77223

I know more than a couple of folks who've gone from 9 back to Super/SC since their source of free 9mm brass has gone away (most likely because fewer and fewer law enforcement agencies are issuing them now), so I don't think Major 9 is nearly the trend it was for a while. I wouldn't mind having a steel gun in 9 if it would run factory ammo, but short of that, I'll stick with Supercomp. R,

[BlackBuzzard]

Front Sight page 16 this months issue - states over one third of open shooters ran 9mm major at last years nationals.

Would seem 9mm major is here to stay for while, and gaining.

BB

[Rob Boudrie]

Last time I bought super brass, they were about 7 cents each from Starline.

It's up to 12.5 cents each plus shipping. 9mm is cheap enough you can afford to lose it.

[GrumpyOne]

Last time I bought super brass, they were about 7 cents each from Starline.

It's up to 12.5 cents each plus shipping. 9mm is cheap enough you can afford to lose it.

Even still, after 13 reloads, it's a penny....Same as what most are paying for their 9mm.

I like them both, but, I've been buying once-fired 9mm brass for $25-$30 per thousand, and for that, I won't even bend over to pick it up.

At $25 per thousand, that's .025 per case (2 1/2 cent per case) + shipping I would think, so say around .03 each. You get 3, maybe 4 reloads from a major 9, so at the end of it all, about a penny each. Same for the super, and I'm starting with new brass.

[G-ManBart]

Front Sight page 16 this months issue - states over one third of open shooters ran 9mm major at last years nationals.

Would seem 9mm major is here to stay for while, and gaining.

BB

I haven't seen the new numbers, but 2008 was 32%. So, it may have gained a bit, but as XRe says, look at what's actually winning. I think we all have to be realistic and admit that the poll I did and the numbers from the Nationals may not really be representative of the average USPSA shooter....maybe, maybe not...no real way to know for sure. R,

[G-ManBart]

Last time I bought super brass, they were about 7 cents each from Starline.

It's up to 12.5 cents each plus shipping. 9mm is cheap enough you can afford to lose it.

It's 12.3 cents each shipped from at least one source (Angus). I'm pretty sure Starline's price includes shipping as well. I only have to reuse my SC brass four times to be at the same cost as 9. I typically get way more than ten uses out of them and recover 95%+ at every match except big matches. That's way cheaper the using 9 once. For a big match I think $35 worth of brass left for the ROs isn't worth worrying about when we spend more than that on the other components and spend way more on all the other stuff...it's really a fraction of what a big match normally costs folks.

[fritzthemoose]

I am quite familiar with the 38 Super... why would someone prefer the 9 major?

I am sure this has been covered before, so if anyone has a link that would do.

On my side of the pond the question would be different. Why would someone prefer 38. Quite frankly I dont know anyone who is not using 9 Major and I cannot even remember having seen someone with a 38 in the last years. We do have several matches a year at our club among them LIII every year also national championships every once in a while but never ever saw a 38. OK I was not looking for it either. But anyway, I heard of a guy who is using 38 in a Tang but thats about it.

[mildot1]

Lets be honest here. If you bought 1000 38 super how many of them get loaded 10 times?? I know damn well its not 1000 unless you spend a lot of time crawling around on your knees hunting it!

At least two of the ranges I go to have three or more stages that are grass, one is all grass. I doubt you could go home with 50% of what you shot. I don't even look for the 9mm.

I have already shot it at least once at home and prolly twice. I cost me two cents apiece so I left $1.33 at a 200 rnd match figuring a value of .066 per pc.

At worst if If I paid .3cents and only fired it once it's 6 bucks.

38 super would be 12.00 if I got 50% back.

Who is doing your share of taping and resetting steel why you are scrounging brass?

Just my thoughts

[herky]

"Who is doing your share of taping and resetting steel why you are scrounging brass?"

Around here brassing is just part of the "duty" as is taping, setting steel, scorekeeping, and ROing (even with small squads).

[G-ManBart]

Lets be honest here. If you bought 1000 38 super how many of them get loaded 10 times?? I know damn well its not 1000 unless you spend a lot of time crawling around on your knees hunting it!

Who is doing your share of taping and resetting steel why you are scrounging brass?

I get back 95%+ at most of the clubs where I shoot and frequently get 100% back. I mark all my ammo very clearly with colored sharpie in the extractor groove and everybody knows it's mine. My match ammo goes with me in 100-count Dillon boxes. I start the match off with a known number so that I can track the round count on my guns. The times I've counted my brass after a match it often pairs up exactly with how many are gone from the box(s).

Most places I've been brassing is something that most squads do and if there aren't enough folks pasting/setting, I'll paste or set to make sure we keep up the pace and grab my brass at the end (since it's easy to spot). R,

[smokshwn]

1) In making the case for equal brass cost, the proponents create a worst case scenario for 9mm brass and a best case scenario for 38 super. Unless you shoot in an acrylic fish bowl with a lid, you don't get 100% of your super brass back. I would bet the best recovery rate is 85-90% in good range conditions and more likely in the 80% range normally. I also know here in the winter and early spring you can count on single digit recovery rates. And let's not forget lost brass matches.

2) Assuming the brass cost is equal, the bonus of 9mm brass is that while super shooters are busy doing a chicken impersonation, I am preparing for the next stage, socializing, relaxing, enjoying the fact that my back and knees are not sore

3) The argument that the big dogs are still running super is somewhat specious as well. From a performance standpoint, there has been little evidence of a significant performance difference (accuracy, reliability, etc) So if I already have a brass and bullet sponsor or better yet the brown truck is dropping off Atlanta Arms by the caselot, why would I change. Conversely if I am a solid M,A,B shooter getting into open or even the first time open shooter, there are advantages to 9mm that do not present themselves to the shooter already invested in 38 super. The bottom line there is nothing holding a person back with a properly built 9 except perception.

4) Reliability wise, it always puzzles me that if an open shooter has a malf with a super, everyone starts looking for a cause....extractor, magazine, springs, etc. etc. But if a open shooter has a malf with a 9mm everyone immediately blames the cartridge, when in fact the malf still boils down to the mechanical components and their respective fitting. The gun has to be built correctly. I know most smith's agree that there is a little more work to properly setup a 9 vs setting up a super, however, once its right it's right. I have said this so many times, but I am right around 45k rounds through my 9 using unsorted range brass..no sorting or voodoo magic just clean, load and shoot, zero problems. Yes, not a single malf that could not be attributed to bad ammo or a worn recoil or mag spring, and only a very few of those.

Edited March 18, 2010 by smokshwn

[CocoBolo]

Lets make it 21 replies. I'm shooting both 9 mm major and 38SC on the same frame so what could be more equal.

The case for Brass: Being an RO and doing 6 to 10 major matches a year, there just isn't any cost. Yep, that's right I get all I can shoot and give the rest away. That said it is amazing to me that you are not shooting the cheapest bullet you can find, but instead using more CMJ and JHP, as I am. I could shoot a round nose for $10.00 less per thousand.

Reliability suprised me, I bought a used top end had my smith fit it threw it on and started shooting. 100% reliable just like my 38SC but I also run all my free brass thru my CasePro and I got that puppy shimed to make the brass factory fresh size. So ammo issues are a thing on the past.

Accuracy - I can't tell any difference, I can still make a head shot on a no shoot.

Where the departure comes in is the feel of the gun and how fast you can shoot it. The 38SC is flatter and softer than the 9 mm. Ok argue that something else is the blame well not so they are both equal as they can be and I even changed the comp on the 9 mm to a Brazos just like the 38 Super. I have been working loads but I have about run out of options to try and no it isn't as good but if you like it a little snappy its not bad. I don't like snappy women, kids or guns, XRE likes it snappy and he makes snappy comments. My last ditch effort to tame the 9 major is going to be HS6 or Accurate#7, I tried lots of other powders.

On the brass issue if you find a lot of primers floating around in the corn you picked up some 9 major brass. By the way I paint my 9 major red with dykem so I don't accidentally pick one up, I pick up the newbs brass that nice once fired stuff. sssshshhh don't tell.

The absolute best thing about Major 9 is that it made good 38 Super guns a lot cheaper. Thanks.

[Glockcomma]

I have to agree with CocoBolo I have two 5" STI's I bought the last one in 38 Super and was going to convert it to 9MM as a back up to my 9MM primary gun. I bought some brass from G-Man Bart just to see what Super was all about and now I don't have the heart to change it. I cringe when I have to buy brass but it shoots flatter and softer than my 9mm and will likely become my primary gun.

Tim

[G-ManBart]

I have to agree with CocoBolo I have two 5" STI's I bought the last one in 38 Super and was going to convert it to 9MM as a back up to my 9MM primary gun. I bought some brass from G-Man Bart just to see what Super was all about and now I don't have the heart to change it. I cringe when I have to buy brass but it shoots flatter and softer than my 9mm and will likely become my primary gun.

Tim

Hey, don't blame it on me man!

[VegasOPM]

I shoot .38SC because that was the caliber of the gun that I bought. If I built another gun, I would have it in .38SC because that is what I am set up for. For a multitude of reasons brass costs and availability are pretty much a non-issue to me. The other components cost exactly the same- other than the fact that IMR4756 is cheap and will make major in 38SC, but not in 9 Major. I do know that 9 Major is LOUD- especially out of a Hybri Comp, but my .38SC Hybricomp is no shrinking violet in the noise department. I'm not sure why we need to make a firm decision on this- they're both pretty.

I also shoot a lot of 9mm and I don't organize my ammo very well (unless dumping it in a border shift bag is "organizing" it), so I like the fact that I don't have to worry about mixing up 9mm and 9 Major in my shooting bags.