TravisT Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 Okay, in case I haven’t alienated enough people with my other thread I enjoy shooting 2 shots per target. What I don’t enjoy, is a fellow competitor getting two scored hits with one hole and a probable miss. It’s happening all the time. In fact it happened at the Race Gun Nationals (yes I’m certain as he only fired once at the target and received two hits). So instead of placing the RO and the shooter in this situation, how about we only score one hole per target? Please discuss the advantages and disadvantages. How would we handle COF’s with multiple strings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted January 1, 2003 Share Posted January 1, 2003 WOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!! I no longer have to worry about WHERE the gun returns to for the second shot. Thanks Man! I'm gonna ACE this game now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 ah...the commonly rare perfect double! Hmm...major and minor scored the same (if you don't get an "A")? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 How about instead unless the "double" hole/mark is 0.1" (2.5mm to Vince )wider than the bullet caliber, it's scored a miss? With even a little leeway on the 0.1", it should be obvious if the hits are there. The 'tactical' dudes can't complain-- after all, putting another hole in the bad guy in the exact same place as the last one isn't going to help any. Issue one stick on "no, really, it's a double" bullet-hole sticker at registration to each competitor that can be applied to any one target lacking the requisite bullet separation (aka: Mike) as desired by the shooter. <HR> Alternatively, we could do what some of the other high-accuracy target sports do-- place a secondary 'backer' target some distance behind the first one. You'd have twice as many targets to paste, but 'doubles' are easy to spot since they separate by the time they hit the backer target. (Edited by shred at 8:21 pm on Jan. 1, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Theres nothing to prevent you from doing that now, 1 shot per target, 2 shots, 3 or whatever. There is nothing in the rules that stipulates that you MUST have a stage design of 2 rounds per, just that is the recommended norm. I have designed many stages with odd counts. I say go for it...screw the double tappers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 What irks me - and maybe this should go in the What I Hate section - are the people who insist you've got a Miss because there's only one hole in the target, but the target you shot was so heavily taped they're looking at a 1" by 2" hole. And when you say there's no way they can KNOW there's not two bullet holes through that huge mass of missing target, they look at you like you're asking for a Christmas present or something. My all time lamest scoring experience occurred at a local indoor pistol league. One stage was to fire six shots, reload and fire six more shots - at five yards in, like, 30 seconds or something similarly ridiculous. I know, the level of difficulty is mind boggling, isn't it. We were shooting at black bull's-eye targets, and when I was done, shooting a Novak custom Hi-Power, I had nothing outside the 10-ring, and most of that had pretty much taken out the X-ring. The scorer said, "I only see eight holes." Well, of course he did. The rest were in that chewed-up piece of missing and mangled paper that used to be the X-ring. And they wouldn't believe me. "Maybe you didn't fire all your rounds." "No," I said, showing them my box of ammo, "this is a 48 round match, I came in with a 50 round box of ammo, there's two rounds left in the box. I fired all my ammo." "Well then, you must have missed the target." MISSED THE TARGET?! Mr. Sulu, engage common sense, warp factor one. I did not put eight of 12 rounds into 1"......and then miss the entire 18" x 18" square piece of paper with the other four! Jesus wept. What's the point of practicing to the point you can put 'em through one hole at close range, slow-fire, if no one believes it's possible afterwards? It's not like this is a really difficult proposition. At five yards? In 30 seconds? With a Novak Hi-Power? Yeah, obviously I must have missed. So they hosed me 20 points. I left, and never shot another match at that range. The scent of poultry feces, as Mas Ayoob would put it, was too strong to endure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Man, Ol' Coop's gotta be turning in his grave...and he ain't even dead yet. T^2, BE's gonna have rename you the "Great Young Infidel." Keep it up, and they're going put up a wanted poster for you at Gunsite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted January 2, 2003 Author Share Posted January 2, 2003 E-LOL! That’s awesome. Pat- You rule!! Great point. Shred- Very interesting idea. Imagine some guy arguing a backer target...that would be pretty weak DT- I’m hearing that. We can put what, 8 rounds on a target? Unless that target is really fresh, that’s just too many. It seems like everytime we go through Standards at the Nats, there's at least one dispute due to this. Thanks guys, T^2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Great idea Travis!! Will float this to all of those I know locally. Sick and tired of the Cooper worship and see NO requirement for 2 rounds on target when 1 round would solve so many disputes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 If we follow the idea of "Radical Travis" we can make scoring a whole lot easier, too. Your stage score is your time. Each target struck outside of the A zone adds a .1 second penalty, .2 for Minor. If you whack a D and want to make it up with an A, go ahead. Match total is stage total. You can score a match on a sheet of paper. At last, a scoring system that doesn't make newbies eyes glaze over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 That sounds too much like the IDPA scoring system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 t2, if it don't stink, don't stir it! all my single hole doubles are doubles, just ask anyone that shoots with me. it's the targets that don't have any holes in them, that is hard to explain. i was thinking the same thing about jeff cooper as i was reading the thread. don't get him p*ssed off. he may join that devil sport "idpa", can't have that. lynn jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I'd love to see a minimum of one round per target. Shoot all you want BUT score the single highest hit. Mag capacity NOW becomes less of an issue and Revolver shooters would laove the idea because it would eliminate 50% of the "dead standing" reloads they have to perform. Great idea........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Sorry Chuck, they will just put out twice as many targets. Those stupid 8 shot arrays will be uglier. I once saw a shot fired where the bullet fractured exiting the barrel. Half into one target, half 2 feet away into a no shoot. Virginia count! Can you score that in a way that will make everyone happy? The answer is to score the targets by the rules. Ignore the whining. Have some backbone, and accept that nothing is perfect in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 One things for sure, those UGLY arrays won't be seen at CPS ! By the way.....why does "disagreement" and the free flow of new,unconventional ideas awlays wind up as being classified as "whining" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 I'd love to see more stages with different numbers of rounds per target. One shot per, or 3 shots per (2 to body, 1 to head?), whatever. I'd also like to see more stages without 4 target arrays. I'd like to have some choice about where to reload my single stack...play it safe, or try to pick up that lone target?? You know, get my mind working. I'd also like less symmetrical stages. Anyway, T, if you designed a one hit per stage, I would be happy to shoot it Semper Fi, DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Deviate from the Norm ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 One shot per target? What a great idea, this will put accuracy back in USPSA. Look at all the money we will save, 1/2 as much ammo and pasters used, targets can be used over and over. No reloads for anyone on most stages. Good thinking! Hit factors down to 1's and 2's with maybe a 3 for a hoser stage, fantastic!! And no cheaters to rob us of our placing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hit factors get higher on hoser stages, not lower. If you had one-shot-per stages, it would take a pretty crappy shooter to post a 1 or 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Actually, 2Alpha has it right. Higher hit factors for the hoser stage. I can think of a lot of stages where a hit factor of 2 could be possible. All of the time would be movement or transitions with no splits and half the rounds. Hit factors will go way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Oops. He did say say a higher hit factor for the hoser stage. Need to get more sleep.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 NA NA NuNaana Duane. Ron said I was right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 lol...and Ron is a teacher. ...I wonder if he puts those smiley faces on people's score sheets when he is running the clip board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted January 3, 2003 Author Share Posted January 3, 2003 I knew I could count on you guys for a better perspective. Now, who’s this Cooper guy? Nah, I have lots of respect for the roots, but if we’re gonna go to the trouble of keeping score, I don't see any problem with removing as much subjectivity as possible. Chuck- That’s an awesome point about capacity! I’d consider that a huge pro. 2A's- I really dig the idea of saving money on ammo WARNING: Call me sick guys (just not Shirley), but I’d love to see the day when a revo wins HOA. ****Now you know I've gone over the edge**** END WARNING. Patrick- So true, I dig it! When I’m introducing someone new to the scoring, they inevitably get this far off look in their eyes. Kind of like this: BTW, awesome article on the World Shoot in the current "Guns" Pat! Thanks a million for the killer pic!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Wot? No picture of me reflecting on the latest Arbitration? Now that's where the real action was taking place, dude! "Action" noun where the warmest coffee and nicest donuts were being devoured in air-conditioned comfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now