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Here is what else I learned today. The PC shop has forged/cnc hammers and triggers used in some of the PC guns. I will try and see if I can get them to sell me a set.

Well I called S&W, they say the trigger is flash chromed. Not Melonite, and that mine should not have looked like orange-peel surface and they are shipping me a new hammer without charge. Pretty good service, now maybe they are having problems with that flash chrome because he was fast to offer a replacement. So maybe that plus a apextactical hammer and I'll be happy.

Well I stoned some of the mim parts and they polish up OK. Under a 10X magnifier the metal structure looks ok. However the melonite is a problem. I'm going to get a real hammer and trigger, and maybe a cylinder lock also. Why doesn't SMith offer a cnc cut hammers and triggers? From looking at the frame they certainly could do it.

Melonite coating. Never heard of it, but I don't like it. It fractured on single action sear edge on the trigger. Leaving something that looks like peeling chrome. it is Soft and doesn't look like it is on the hammer. The surface looks rough like orange peel paint job problem. I'm trying to get a good DA trigger. All suggestion welcomed. I'm used to plain old steel parts, you know put some dykem on then and stone them to perfect fits. So how do you work with goo cover parts???? So who is Randy Lee? I would like to buy a real trigger and hammer. Where do I find them. Brownell replacement parts are probably just more goo covered parts.

You are right about not a PC gun. It is a new 160936. Where the 170161 is a PC gun. It is straight from the distributor. Nobody but Smith has done anything to it.

I bought a new 625-8JM. Brought it home shot it a few times, it worked. So I took it apart to do a trigger job. The Frame is just amazing. Incredible piece of precision engineering. Now lets talk about what found on hand fitted parts. The Barrel face on the Yoke barrel flange, cut and angle off by around .0035 noticeable to eye. So that means face yoke and install powers washers. Next is bolt, the cylinder plunger pin cut about .002 below flush cylinder hard to open. New part can't add metal Double action sear, face looks like it was cut with plain file, no polishing long ridges running across it. Trigger bevel, under a magnifier looks like it was plated with something that has chipped flaked off. Hammer relief of the single action sear is so rounded by the stone that looks like you held it in your hand and dressed it. So all that time taken make all these precision parts is tossed because the hand work looks like it was done at kitchen table by a first timer. Doesn't look like a single jig was used anywhere. Rough, burrs. So if I send it to smith will they fix it or tell me that's the best they can do. I can't decide spend more money on parts, tools etc or ask for my money back? Also the trigger looks different than the hammer did they coat it with a bake on Moly? It looks so funky compared to the hammer.

I heard one really good agrument for the seal rotary rock tumbler sytle. You can use soap and water to clean your brass.

Everything you said is true to a degree, but there is also a new rifling called "C" which is 5 lands with 40 degree corners on rifling. The bench rest guys are liking these. Also a small degree of taper to muzzle seems to be very important also. Last tweak is a barrel tuner which puts the nodal point at the muzzle. to see value of any of these things you must be a reloader who is willing to take the time to try, powder, bullets, over all lengths etc. For a very small gain in accuracy.

Ok now my opinion -- most of us don't have bore scopes so we are guessing. Clean the new barrel with some JB, shoot it. Then clean again with JB. Shoot it. Keep this routine up until you notice that the barrel stays clean longer and is easier to clean. Then don't bother with the JB until you get the carbon ring in front of the chamber. A dry barrel in the sunlight will let you see carbon ring build up.

Compass Lake, Frank White is place to go for custom barrel. Fast turnaround, your choice of barrel blanks, your choice of chamber, twist, contour. They made up two 18" douglas, 1/8 with mid length gas tubes for me. One was a thin profile. 75 for length except for a .85 nub for gas block. Tell him what you want and he'll build it.

Go to rifle section and look at the gallery. Scoping is part that is really the most debated area. Seems to be two types, military look alikes,and dedicated 3gun guns.

sometimes they get stuck, lube then pull

Ithaca 37 been doing that for almost 80 years

Shot gun news ran a series of articles on how to upgrade them.

I was coming out a supermarket one time and two brats were skatboarding in front of door way and had already knock grocerys out of one ladies arms and never bother to help, just laughed. I timed my exit so that one of them had a chance to pull same thing on me. As he cruised by I snatched him off his board. He immediately started cursing me. However I had him by the collar bone, whispered in his ear while applying more pressure "you'll be dead before anybody can save you". Then in normal voice said "run along young man your bother people" with one final good crunch on that nerve. They both left with the one rubbing his shoulder as he walked away. I like that title "free range". If you can't train a dog you shouldn't have kids!

Took a self defense class from Ray Chapman and Massad Ayoob 4 day class. Took week of training at Blackwater, Pistol and Shotgun, passed my Black shirt test.

For extreme cold like like -20 -50 degrees. The rule is dry, or dry lube applied during a disassemble. Seems actions like to freeze in that kind of cold weather. Also never bring your gun inside, leave in the cold.

Cheney had a good reasonable explanation during the interview of how he screwed up. Seems the lawyer had wandered off from party to retrieve a bird. While looking he bird he walked into a low area. It was about 1 hour from sunset so sun was full and low. Grass was about knee high. So when next batch of birds flushed, cheney swung into the sun and fird on his bird. He then saw movement which was the lawyer falling. So how many of you can see past your bird when looking into the Sun? Also that why he got hit in head and chest he was in a low spot and just visible over the grass. Cheney fault, he takes the blame, but not as bad a screwup and I imagined.

I'm not advocating lots of WD40 or Kroil such that you would find it rolling around in the action of gun. Just enough to soften the felt bob's and thin the JB paste a little. For my AR's I use the sinclair hold open pin and JP bore guide thing that goes into the carrier area and seals with oring. Plus I stuff rags over the open lower. I'm a grease fan not oil. I use a little synthetic on my accurails on pistol, but not much. I have basic funtion test. load it nothing in chamber put safety on then then put in in sand kick some over it. Then pick it up make sure barrel is not obstructed and then proceed to shoot with it. Both for Rifle and pistols. But then I like to clean my guns with hot soapy water and sometimes I use the dishwasher.

Unless you have a bore scope your just guessing how clean your barrel is. Precision shooting magazine has gone all through this, with pictures of the bore. Rifles usually have a stubborn carbon ring just in front of the chamber. It will ruin accuracy and is very hard to remove if it builds up. Also about 2/3 of the way down barrel is usual another dirty build up spot. Moly bullets, copper bullets, lead bullets all do it. Only ones that reduce it are those that don't have exposed lead at the base. Using JB paste with bore brush is diffcult to get a tight fit. Use the double felt bob holder from brownells. Clean the bore with your favorite Hoppes whatever. That removes most of the loose stuff. Then use the felt bob's I soak them with Kroil or Wd40 and then work the jb paste in. without a bore scope you will have to tell by feeling the tight spots in the barrel. If it is an AR you can clean the barrel with something like break cleaner to remove all oils then dry patch and then take it out into bright sunlight and you will be able to see some of the grung spots, only with lots of sunlight and good eyes. work on just the bad spots, could take alot of scrubbing. You'll hear different barrel makers say yes or no to this process. The main problem is at the muzzle end. Put some tape on clean rod or a stop and don't let the felt bob's come out the muzzle end. Until your ready to finish cleaning. They will always come out black. Unless you have a fancy hand polished Krieger etc barrel. Your barrel is rough and will crud up until it smoothed out by shooting and clean with JB. That's why Tubb's sells his grit covered bullets, a poor mans bore polish. Don't worry about wearing out your barrel with JB. Barrels wear out just in front of chamber, Lots of guys buy old good quality shot out barrels cut them off rechamber and back in business. Jb works fine on pistol barrels too.

Read this in precision shooting.... After trying all the different media, I gone back to using a rock tumbler with soap and water. 45 minutes brass is shinny like new, toss them in towel then hair drier and your ready to go with no stuff stuck in primer pockets.

LEt me know how it goes, I had to send my back. As the 2/3 popper from LE targets was cut wrong and rubber face didn't cover all of the steel. The rubber was right but 1/2inch thick 2/3 popper was two wide under the circle section.

Claude, We have a policy that we do not publish unsigned letters. We definitely read them (obviously) but to publish it, I need a signed hard copy. Up to you. . . Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: King,Claude M To: Robin Taylor Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 12:25 PM Subject: RE: Letter to the editor, Front Sight Robin I'm not going to take to time to use snail mail. However I will edit the version below. If you want to publish it fine, if not OK, just forward it to somebody who cares! I get excited after seeing the cover of the Jan/Feb 06 2005 3-Gun Nationals issue. I run a small Florida Club that has 3-Gun matches. So I read article. It is ok but so little information. I'm mean it talked about maybe two stages and two shooters. Maybe instead of shooting the match the author should shoot with RO's then actually cover the match. I got so little information that it was just a tease. I liked to know about equipment & tactics used. Since Taran whipped butt as usual, maybe some info on what he used and how he did it. The article also mentions preloading and gun bunkers. So how did they work out? What were stages like. More Pics. I just find Front Sight to be a very lite magazine. Ok if you don't want spend the money on a thick mag but then how about some links to a web site of extended articles and photo's. Its not like you can buy front sight at any newstand. Many books published today provide a special web site for additional material. Claude King Gainesville Florida -----Original Message----- From: Robin Taylor [mailto:robin@uspsa.org] Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 2:47 PM To: King,Claude M Subject: Letter to the editor, Front Sight Claude, You make some excellent points. Would you be interested in submitting this as a letter to the editor (perhaps cleaned up a bit)? If you'd like to see it published, I'll need a signed hard copy sent to: Front Sight magazine, P.O. Box 811, Sedro-Woolley, WA 98284. Sincerely, Robin Taylor Assistant Editor Front Sight magazine ----- Original Message ----- From: King,Claude M To: office@uspsa.org Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: Front sight I get excited after seeing the cover. So I read article. Its ok but so little information. I'm mean it talked about maybe two stages and two shooters. Maybe instead of shooting the match the author should shoot with RO's then actually cover the match. I got so little information that it was just a tease. I like to know about equipment used. Since Taran whip butt as usually, maybe some info on what and how he did it. I just find Front Sight to be a very lite magazine. Ok if you don't want spend the money on a thick mag but then how about some links to web site of extended articles and photo's. Its not like you can buy front sight at any newstand.

Don't put the safe directly on concrete. Use pressure treated wood, or some thick kind of mat. Then bolt it down. Also put in a dryer stick. Get fire rated safe, there walls are harder to cut through.

I get excited after seeing the cover. So I read article. Its ok but so little information. I'm mean it talked about maybe two stages and two shooters. Maybe instead of shooting the match the author should shoot with RO's then actually cover the match. I got so little information that it was just a tease. I like to know about equipment used. Since Taran whip butt as usually, maybe some info on what and how he did it. I just find Front Sight to be a very lite magazine. Ok if you don't want spend the money on a thick mag but then how about some links to web site of extended articles and photo's. Its not like you can buy front sight at any newstand.