Smokecloud

I have not found enough inconsistencies with smaller calibers, especially if you have quality brass. I did buy one about 10-12 years ago for my 50bmg though. Bullet run out was so bad that I could roll the loaded round across a table and you could see the tip of the bullet moving up and down by almost 1/8" on some rounds. Some of those were by manufacturers as well as my reloads. I bought my concentricity gauge from a well known gentleman over on the 50bmg forum "Biggerhammer" George used to make them. The construction was very nice, but had a cheaper gauge on it that is easily replaced, however the one on it has performed very well. I learned some new reloading techniques from some of the more knowledgeable guys over there on getting my run out down to reasonable levels. Make sure your expander ball is a little loose, so it self centers when you draw it back out, this will prevent the necks from pulling to the side. When full length sizing, run the ram all the way in, then back out enough that you can turn the case, but not engage the expander ball, then turn the case 180 and size the neck a 2nd time before engaging the expander ball on withdrawal. When seating bullets, do you best to ensure that the bullet is sitting as perfect as it can on the neck, so that its straight up, not cocked to the side. If the bullet is leaning even a little bit, it will stress the neck and push it off center as the bullet straightens out as it goes into the seating die. Also only seat the bullet about 1/3 of the way, lower the ram, turn the loaded case about 1/3 and seat the bullet the 2/3 of the way, withdrawal, turn it 1/3 again and finish seating. You really want your run-out to be under .010 for anything that is being shot at all, but you need it closer to .002 or less for distance shooting. I started out with 3 brands of loaded ammo before I was setup to reload this caliber. One was from Talon and one was from another outfit that I can't remember the name of. I was getting 18" groups at 100 yards from a $4k rifle. I bought some match grade ammo from HSM with brand new Winchester cases and 750gr AMAX bullets, I managed to get my groups down to 6" at 100 yards, but I was ready to throw it in the garbage. When I started reloading for it, I remained in the 6-10" range until I figured out that bullet run-out was the problem. I finally got one that was bad enough that it wouldn't chamber. I felt stupid for not seeing it earlier, but in all the years I had reloaded, run-out was something I had never experienced a problem with. I was using mostly 1x fired Lake City cases that I was performing a match prep on. Once I started using the new loading techniques on the cases, I got my run-out problem resolved, my groups went down to 2" at 100 yards. I was using all crap components, pulled 700gr AP bullets, Pull down IMR 5010 powder and said cases. I took the better part of a day and weight sorted all the bullets I had, then weight sorted all the prepped cases and numbered them. I loaded them and shot them by the numbers and managed to start shooting 3/4" groups at 100 yards. I know this 50bmg story is a little off topic, but it taught me a few things along the way that brought a new level of recognition to my "smaller" caliber reloading. I have never bought another concentricity gauge, but I have checked some of the smaller calibers on the big gauge. They don't fit real well, but I am able to make it work.

I have a very tight chamber and short lead on my barrel. My brother runs a 9" AAC and I can't run his loads because they touch the lands in my gun. He also gets about 100fps faster velocities than I do with the same charges. I never figured 3/4" would make that much difference. The quietest out of all 3 of our guns was out of the handy rifle. No port noise and action noise is huge when having "quiet" competitions. The load that was the quietest out of it was some 125gr TNT Speer's that I had loaded with TrailBoss. Pretty full case, book data and quiet enough to make you giggle. Shot some through the AR's we knew it had zero chance of cycling, but I was surprised that it barely moved the bolt at all, so it stayed closed for the most part and was the quietest rounds we shot through the semi's also. That was what made me start playing with sub rounds out of my Rem 700 in .308. My kids were shooting them a few weeks ago, it was quieter than their pellet rifles and recoil was on par with the pellet rifles, they ran my 50 rounds out pretty quickly.

No worries. I don't know if you are into casting your own bullets, but I got into casting my own solely for the 300blk. I didn't get the results I originally wanted, but ended up getting exactly what I needed for pistol and slugs. Long story short, I cant take my Saker apart, so the powder coated cast bullets for 300blk subs, were not as clean as I would have liked. If you have a pistol suppressor that you can take apart and clean, that might be the ticket for you. Or just run them without a can. If you go play over on castboolits.com there is a wealth of information for 300blk. a lot of those guys gravitate to Unique for a lot of loads, its probably worth a look, even if you are not getting into the cast bullet world. Take care. Do keep in mind with powder like 1680 and the heavy bullets though that the long 200+ gr bullets consume about half the case volume when seated to mag length, therefore reducing the airspace. Shooting the 110's and such you have the entire case open.

Your reply is a little confusing. Since you want to go with faster burning pistol powders, you have to realize that means smaller charges to achieve the same thing. Most of the data was for the semi-auto platforms. The 1680 had the correct pressure curve that puts more PSI at the gas port at the correct time to insure reliable cycling. The other powders are very close on the burn chart. Since you don't have any action to worry about, you have a much wider field to play in. For supersonic with H110 and a 125gr bullet, I run about 18.0 grains and the chrono tells me that I'm getting about 2025 fps out of my short barrel, that fills the case to the bottom of the neck. H110 is more of a magnum pistol powder that is popular in 357 magnum. You are correct in being wary of reduced loads with some of the slower burning powders as you will run into problems with pressure spikes from flashover. One pistol powder that has book data for subsonic loads in 223 and 308 is titegroup (I run TrailBoss for my 308 subs). TG is way too fast for my purposes, but you should be able to find a reasonable load that is safe. TG is not position sensitive, but the charge is very very small. I would guess that you might end up in the 4-5 grain range for a sub load depending on your specific bullet. In comparison I run about 10.2 grains of 1680 to achieve the same velocities. To try to keep the 300blk reasonably cheap to shoot, I typically run Speer TNT 125 gr HP's, I can get them in 500 packs for around $89 (about .18 cents per bullet), I pretty much only run them supersonic in my rifle as it becomes a single shot at subsonic velocities. I then watch for the Shooters Pro Shop for Nosler 220gr BTHP for their blems or 2nds to go on sale, I can usually score them for about $21 per 100, or be very patient and wait for the 208 AMAX blems to come back in stock at MidwayUSA, they usually run around $23 per 100. The problem with all rifle bullets at pistol speeds, is that they simply do not expand and work as they are supposed to. That makes them less desirable to shoot animals with. The 110 gr varmint bullets seem to do better on coyotes in my yard, but I became frustrated at the cost of plinking with this caliber and decided to build a 9mm AR. I am waiting on a suppressor for it, but the SBR is pretty much complete and papered. a 147 grain HP at 1000-1025fps works like its supposed to. I cast and powder coat my own pistol bullets, so plinking around the house (I live on a ranch) is cheap and easy. The brass is 10x easier to prep and load. I still love playing with my 300blk, but I typically shoot the coyotes with the 125gr TNT's at full speed at them, because they are still quieter than shooting any 223 suppressed at supersonic speeds. Your 30M1 plinker bullets may be a good solution with titegroup powder since you don't have to worry about feed reliability. It seems like some of the guys over on one of the 300blk forums were running Hornady XTP pistol bullets in a 300blk with great success, I can't recall if they had settled on the 32acp version, or something close to that, but it was in the 90gr area and may have been run through a size die to bring it down a couple of thousands prior to loading. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

The Holy grail for subs is 1680. since you don't have to cycle an action, you have a lot more options tho. I have not shot those 110s but have loaded hornady 110 vmax, 125gr tnt Speers, 125gr nosler bt, 110gr Barnes up through 208 Ajax and 220gr sierra and nosler bthp at subsonic levels. 5744 and 4227 powders are the other 2 that are safe and I have loaded at sub levels, there is book data on both. H110 is the go to powder for supersonic. 296 is very close to h110 for data and Lil Gun seems popular for supersonic loads but I have no experience with it. I have a family member with the little handy rifle we play with all sorts of stuff in. I have an AR15 with 8.2" Noveske and a Saker, so I like my stuff to cycle. the 110s work better on critters and water jugs at 1025fps than the 220 bthp or even the 208amaxs. use a chrono and start a little fast and work your way down so you don't stick a bullet in the bore.

Sorry, not for 69's, but I have shot quite a few Nosler 77's through my 18" Criterion with 1-8 twist and .223 Wylde chamber. It settled in around 23.5gr of H4895 and from memory was running in the mid 2700's. LC once fired cases and CCI 41 or Rem 7 1/2 or CCI 450, loaded to 2.260, I shot about 2k of them and ran low on that powder during the hard times. I scored some 8208XBR and found a good load, so I made the switch to it. I found that it meters better, but does run at a higher PSI rating than the H4895. Both are temp stable. A lot of people really try to push their LR bullets fast, because velocity is king in the Long Range world, but you really have to tailor each load specifically to a gun. Most of those heavier bullets will run very accurately in the mid 2600's out of just about any rifle. Unless you are pushing past the 500 yard mark, your not going to see much difference on your data and your gun will live a longer happier life if your ammo is a little more in the medium range.

748 was my go to powder for .223 for many many years. Very low PSI ratings for the same velocity as other powders and low flame temperature leads to longer barrel life. When I started shooting 3gun years ago, I began shooting 69gr sierra's and load developed for it with several different powders. I was surprised that I got the best groups with 748. I was looking for the best 400-500 yard capable round I could create for my carbine. 77's were not popular at that time, hence the 69's and I was running a 1-9 twist barrel on that particular AR. I tested against Varget, H4895, H335, and TAC. My current rifles have found their sweet spots with different powders and bullets in the 77gr range, but if I found a better load with the 748 I wouldn't hesitate to return to it. It also works pretty well in some 308 loads. I always keep a little of the 748 on the shelf.

TG has gained popularity because of its ability to not be position sensitive. Small amounts of most powders will usually provide huge pressure spikes because of a flashover inside the case. Probably not the best explanation, but TG almost seems impervious to this, so it has gained ground as a subsonic powder. I personally have not migrated to using it yet though. For my 308 bolt gun,I prefer to make my sub rounds out of trailboss, which is very bulky and provides a much better case fill. I don't mess with subsonic 223, its a waste of time for me to try to turn my 223/556 into a .22LR- I already have .22's with suppressors that don't have behavior problems. .223 bullets do not perform well on critters under 2k fps either, so a subsonic 223 is a horrible choice for shooting critters with. a .22LR is designed to perform at that velocity and is much more effective at putting down varmints at 1k fps. For my 300blk, I prefer 1680 for the sub rounds, but have successfully made sub rounds that cycle reliably with several other powders as long as the suppressor is attached.

My 3 powders for 10mm are 800x, Blue Dot and Longshot, but I got away from the LS for a while because I couldn't hardly get it. New Starline Brass and 180gr Hornady XTP, I run about 9.0 of 800x, which runs about 1250 out of my G20. That load doesn't tear up the brass too bad, but is right below the power level that my glock started to give me fits. After I shoot good jacketed bullets through the virgin brass, I reload them with 180gr home cast bullets that I make and powder coat. I run them with 10gr of Blue Dot, which runs about 1200 to 1210 fps. Love the fireballs from the BD on practice/plinking rounds and it shoots very accurately. I have reloaded some of the cases now 8x and 9x. 800x is the preferred powder of some of the manufacturers of the hotter 10mm loads. All of that stuff is out of the book specs though and I don't go there, especially with my shorter barrel. I have been getting weak though and I believe that a 6" version will eventually follow me home some day.

I was very excited about this optic and finally got a chance to play with one a couple of weeks ago, everything about it was good except one thing. I couldn't get past the color change. When I looked through the optic, everything had a very subtle light blue tint to it. Almost as if all the colors had been dulled a level or two. It was very clear and the optic felt like it was a very quality unit, but I believe the coating on the front lens may have contributed to the off color view. This was the optic that I had picked out for my current build, an AR9 SBR. After seeing it and playing with it though, that color change turned me off enough that I decided to keep looking.

If you are shooting a 5 round group, put 6 rds in the magazine. That way, you get the same cycle action from your rifle on all shots. If your gun runs dry on the last shot, your follow through will be different with the bolt locking back and also the lack of any upward pressure on your bolt from the live round in the mag that is pushing up. That could make your 5th shot go high and right. Now if that flier was not your last shot, you still have an issue to sort out.

I won a POF 4.5 lb drop in trigger at a match, I decided to try it in my Q10 Colt 9mm AR, so far it runs great with the Q10 Bolt.

Not sure why you don't want a 1-7 barrel for a shorty, but if you can live with that twist rate, there are a lot of great barrel makers out there. I decided recently to order a V Seven barrel in 10.5", if you contact Joel, he offers a "suppressor" version with a smaller gas port. Very, very nice barrels. It shouldn't take much surfing for you to figure out that its the lead tech from Noveske that decided to go his own way and continue his innovations. So far my dealings with the company have been top notch and that is what my next SBR is going to be wearing. I had a chance to install one and test it a couple of weeks ago for a friend, I was sold before I had any interaction with the company.

You can find Wilson SS Barrels on sale for about that range. You won't find a better barrel for the money. I built my last gun with a Criterion Barrel because I wanted a match grade Chrome lined barrel, if there ever was such a critter. I have not been disappointed, they ran in the $260 to $290 range, have had very favorable reviews and I average 1/2 to 3/4 MOA with various hand loads.

This is true to a point, but only until you don't have enough gas. Adjustable gas blocks are more restricted than a non-adjustable, even in their wide open setting. Most manufacturers over size their gas ports for an extra margin of reliability because no two guns are exactly the same when they come off the line and not all ammo is created equally. Take 300blk for instance, they typically are never over gassed in a non-suppressed situation. I helped a guy set up his 300blk because he wanted his 8.5" SBR (pistol length gas tube) to run reliably with and without a suppressor. Because Suppressors increase the back pressure enormously, he wanted to put an adjustable gas block on and be able to tune it to run at normal levels with the can attached. The problems started after we installed the adjustable gas block. Without the suppressor, the adj gas block was restrictive enough, that the rifle did not produce enough gas to cycle it reliably anymore (in the wide open setting). So were left with a couple of options, start reducing mass in the buffer and carrier, or increase gas port size. We opted in this case to go down in buffer weight and found reliability again. Now attach the suppressor and watch the brass fly another 10 feet away, so we start cutting the gas at the adj block until we found the setting that allowed reliable lock back on the last round and the brass was landing at the same spot as the non suppressed setup. He made a few notes in his book and was happy again. Working on various length and caliber short barreled AR's has taught me a lot more than 16", 18" and 20" variations over the years. Even the manufacturers can't decide on a standard gas port size because of infinite variables like how many rifling's are in the bore, bore tightness, how deep the lands and groves are, the chamber dimensions, the overall finish on the chamber walls, and on and on. If you take an 11.5" 5.56 barrel, with carbine length system, you can usually get away with a gas port that is (for the sake of numerous arguments) .065-.070. There is sufficient dwell time after the port that there is a long enough pulse that sufficiently pushes the carrier back. Because its a carbine length system, you are still trying to extract the fired case out of the chamber and have to overcome the extra friction of dragging the case against the walls of the chamber before it has had a chance to contract back down in size. This requires beefed up extraction and you see a lot of extra wear and tear on all aspects of the brass, but 11.5" barrels can be made to run reliably with all sorts of ammo. A 16" barrel with carbine length system would run with the same reliability at about .060-.065 on the gas port. Now shorten the barrel another inch to 10.5" or down to 10.3" and your problems will begin with finding the same reliability as the 11.5". You have less dwell time, so even if the gas ports are the same size, you will not get the same volume of gas at the key. Most manufacturers have learned that they have to open up the gas port to .075 or .080 to make them reliable. The manufacturers that produce those rifles complete will require that you run full powered 5.56 NATO spec ammo to ensure reliability. Those guns run like little race cars, under a lot of stress, at high RPM's and have reduced lifespans. So If you took a 16" barrel with a carbine length system (with .060 or .065 gas port) and cut it down to 10.5" and installed an adjustable gas port, you have to understand that you can not open it enough to make the gun run right, or at all. I understand that this is on the opposite end of the spectrum, but I am hoping this helps some to understand some of the basics of the gas systems and how they interact with different components. When i'm tuning a gun, I can typically feel if its over gassed, not by the rise of the muzzle, but how the bolt feels during its cycle. To me, there is a shock that vibrates the gun slightly, there are other variables as well, but the recoil impulse is lightening fast with an over gassed gun. Yes, you can tone it down on any length system with an adjustable gas block, but there is a minimum amount of gas required to make the gun cycle and the closer the gas port is to the chamber, the higher the pressure requirement will be to facilitate that reliable cycle because its directly effected by the extraction process.

Lot of good information being shared in this thread. One big thing that you have to remember is that a carbine length system requires a larger gas port and more pressure because it's starting the extraction process earlier in the firing cycle. It begins trying to pull the case out of the chamber while the case is still expanded, which requires more force and usually beefed up extractor springs or buffer inserts. This all gets more complicated when you start reducing the length of the barrel after the port "dwell time." By going with a longer gas system, you allow the fired case to expand and contract fully before the extraction process. There are a ton of other variables beyond that, that can effect felt recoil.

I used to pretty much shoot titegroup exclusively for 40sw, but when everything dried up, I tried some WSF after researching the PSI ratings on various loads. The WSF runs way less pressure for the same velocities, shoots softer than TG and runs cleaner. In my experience, WSF likes to be run on the hard side though, when I dropped down to the 150pf range for some 3 gun loads, I noticed the velocity varied quite a bit, but still shot accurately. When I switch over and play with 9mm or 45acp at medium to light loads, I prefer WST.

I don't care to be called a liar, just posting my results. I don't have a Lyman M Die, I was trying to use a RCBS full length size die and just back the die body off a bit, so I was just using the expander ball to help with deburring the inside of the case mouth and open up the ridiculously tight case mouth after the Dillon trim die, but it was not working enough and I was shaving the bases of the bullets upon seating. Soooo I went back to deburring and chamfering the mouths, the loads worked great when I did this. I spent about $800 to streamline this process on my 650 and was hopefull, but it didn't work out as well as I had hoped. I still like the 650 and running the ammo through the progressive, it saves a tone of time and is producing good ammo, but I have not been able to eliminate my case handling. I probably never will because I still uniform my flash hole and primer pockets after eliminating the crimps from the miliarty brass.

Have been looking for Federal Gold Medal Match Primers for some time now and they seem to be unobtainable. I would like to pick up some 210m for my .308 and some 215m for 300wm. Anyone have a secret source they are willing to share or insight as to when they may be available again? I havent seen any on the shelves in at least 3 years and other than Ebay, none at my usual internet shopping places.

I went with the Dillon 1500 trimmer for .223 and had decided I didn't need to chamfer or deburr and had nothing but trouble. Even after 6 hrs of tumbling,the edge on the outside of the neck was still noticable on some cases, but no matter what, even an expander ball on the inside, I was still shaving copper from the burr on the inside, so I went back to chamfering and deburring after processing the brass on my 650 and all the bullet seating problems went away.

I recently switched to the IMR 8208xbr for 77gr Noslers. I had been getting my best results from H4895, but of course that is a full stick powder and left me loading them on a single stage. I got my 650 on line for 223 and needed a powder that would meter for the heavies and gave the 8208 a shot, it really is more like half stick powder and it remained amazingly consistent. I never saw 1/10th grain variance and I checked frequently, I also got single digit SD's. So far I have loaded about 1k and have shot about 600 of them. Im sold on it. For 55gr FMJ, I use cheaper powders, I either run TAC, because it meters the best of anything I have ever seen, or I run H335. For Varmint loads, running VMax or Nosler BT, I like Benchmark for its temp insensitivity.

The bad part is that suppressors are addictive. Once you get past all the hoopla to getting one in your possession and you play with it a bit, you will want another, then another. I started with a Sparrow, then a Saker that I run on my .223 AR's, 300blk and 308 bolt gun. Then realizing how expensive plinking with 300blk is, and wanting to do more play time with subsonic stuff that is cheap to shoot, caused me to start building a 9mm AR that im still waiting on the suppressor for. I have another 30 cal can in the wait as well because I was tired of sharing the Saker for 4 guns, it seemed to make sense to get another 30 cal can, so I can pretty much dedicate my Saker to the 300blk SBR that I built. the 22 cans with subsonic ammo and a bolt rifle will run in the neighborhood of 109db. And yes, I had to try subsonic rounds in my 308, even though I have the 300 blk. Yes, it was quieter with a 24" barrel, bolt gun setup than the 8" semi. Trailboss is your friend when trying to get the 308 slowed down to 1025. Its nice bulky powder.

First, welcome to the world of suppressors. I have to ask why you want a subsonic 223 round though as you are turning your center fire rifle into a .22lr. Its likely that it will be almost impossible to get your AR to cycle reliably at all with subsonic loads unless you build the gun for that purpose. As a novelty, yes, you can load up a few and keep them around for fun, or showing off at how quiet you can make it, but your rifle will likely be turned into a single shot and you will have to manually cycle the action to load the next round every time. Supersonic loads from .223 with a good suppressor are going to run in the neighborhood of 137-140 db, which is hearing safe, but still uncomfortable to my ears. The bullet breaking the sound barrier is louder than 140db which is why most like to shoot subsonic bullets to make the platform quieter. If you are going to start running a suppressor on your AR and are running it with supersonic loads, please keep in mind that you are increasing the backpressure on the system a lot and if you don't make a couple of changes to your rifle, you can shorten its life significantly. If you have an adjustable gas system, turn it down until the gun stops cycling, then open it up just enough to make it cycle reliably. You really should be running a heavier buffer also. In one of my AR's, I don't have an adjustable gas system on it, so I run an 8 oz buffer to slow stuff down, If I could have made it 10oz, I would have. A lot of people are usually not happy with the level of suppression on a .223 AR, which causes them to build a 300blk next. With the heavy 30 cal bullets, the rifles can be tuned to run both supersonic and subsonic ammo reliably and the subsonic type tend to be very quiet, like 119-123 db level, while supers run around 132-135. All of this is variable depending on a million things. A good place to hang around for knowledge about suppressors and load data is over on SilencerTalk. Just Google .223 Subsonic Load Data and that will get you running. Next up, sounds like your ready for your second suppressor for a .22lr, which are fairly inexpensive, but make sure you get one that can be taken apart and cleaned, but that is another story.

20 reloadable would be nice. I appreciate all the replies.

I have been running the same 5 STI mags for several years. I originally bought 10 (140mm) tubes and polished them all, but only built 5 to begin with. I used Dawson pads, and Grams followers/11 coil springs. With untuned mags, I got lucky and have them run pretty much perfect after I shaved the edge of two of the followers ever so slightly, all 5 mags load to 19 in my 40sw. I haven't shot USPSA in a couple of years, and mostly have been running the 3gun stuff. I did buy one Dawson follower and swapped it out for one of the grams followers because I was looking to keep the gun from locking back and didn't want to cut anymore of the other follower away. My Grams followers were set to lock back and of course with the 2011, it was usually with 1 rd left in the mag effectively turning the mags into 18 rd mags. I want to assemble the other 5 tubes and have been looking at the Dawson SNL pads, Dawson followers and possibly the ISMI springs in my search for 20 rds without tuning. Im hoping that I don't need to tune them if my luck holds out for the other 5 on the shelf. Is there any issues combining the selected choices im looking at? Ok, the urgency? The Ironman is arriving and there is one stage that the optional round count may exceed my capacities as I favor pistol over shotgun for as much as I can. One extra mag will probably do it, but two would be better, but since were building, it may as well be 5.