GOF

I wouldn't be spending any time or money to set up a 'new' gun for IDPA right now. I'd wait until the Tiger Teams have announced their Rule changes. We have no idea what they may be regarding equipment Rules, but I'd hate to spend that time and money and then find out my 'new toy' ain't legal six or so months down the road.

I've shot a lot of Rainier bullets... more than a few thousand... in 9mm (147 grain from M&P) .38 SPL & LC (158 RN from Ruger GP-100) and .45 ACP (RN and HP from M&P). I've never had a problem with them. Clays or 231/HP 38 for .38 and 45, and WSF for 9mm. They are not my first choice in bullets, but they seem to be always available, and no more than .75 inch 'looser" in group size at 25 yards from my 'most accurate' loads. I get no tumbling. I use a taper crimp with all Rainier and in all of the above mentioned calibers, and set the OAL to that of an equivilent factory round in 9mm and 45 ACP.... a bit shorter in 38 Spl and LC. You might want to check the tension on your taper crimp, and maybe your powder. I have not yet found TightGroup to be a good powder for any of the above calibers. If your 9mm 147 grain Rainer bullets are tumbling, it could be too tight a crimp, too low a velocity, or some other problem. But, Rainier bullets work for me in a variety of calibers at the appropriate PF. I'm not sure that I would blame the Rainer bullet.

Massad Ayoob refers to the stance you use as the 'Power Isoscles' (some might call it the Modified Isoscles). It provides the same upper turret mobility of the Iscoscles and the same natural 'both arms equal length so gun points well' advantage. But the weak foot slightly forward seems to provide more stability in recoil control. At his urging & coaching I shifted to it from the traditional Isoscles a few years back and think it's the best way... for me... to shoot flat footed. All that goes out the window when barricades or shooting on the move are required (would insert Smiley here, but it's not working for me at the moment). But I like it for "stand & deliver" shots.

I think it all depends upon what YOUR EYES see best. Visual acuity and elasticity of focus do degrade with age. 'Young eyes' can do great things with plain black sights. Old Farts need some help, and a FO front is a big (IMHO) help. The only way you can determine what works best for YOU is to try them on the clock.

You could also think of it as "Sneak, peek & shoot". But, the term "slicing the pie" is in common use by some very serious shooters whose job description does not include winning Class/Division pistol match trophies.

The first time I heard the term 'slicing the pie' it was from some Navy dudes who figured that it was a good way for a single shooter.... not in a stack in a full assault... to safely clear a room. You just peek around the cover while keeping as much of your 'tender regions' covered from the BGs that you have not yet seen. Whether that works in the Real World where your only cover is that simple door jam and sheetrock (and against folks who may have AK 47s that will punch right through that stuff) is debatable. But, I think the basic principle is sound. Sweep around the target area while exposing as little of yourself as possible while being able to engage any target you see. Sweep the left side of the room, then drop back and sweep the right side (for right handers... southpaws maybe in reverse)... peek into the room only when the first two steps were completed and those BGs were down. At least, that was the thought process that was related to me.

I saw a .500 S&W 'snubby' shot in a IDPA BUG stage with full-power 440 grain loads. It was impressive! It was photographed, although I don't have the pic. But, the muzzle flame... monster ball... was about three by two feet. The first target was three yards away and it was blown completely off the target stakes and wound up about about six yards down range. I don't remember his score, but I do remember the squad opining that... with the .500 S&W... ANY hit on the target should be a Down 0

I've loaded over 50,000 rounds of 9mm and never had a problem loading 9mm with the standard four die (re-size/deprime, bell, seat, taper crimp) set from Hornady or RCBS. I'm not sure that 'special' dies are needed if you start with a quality die set for the caliber.

The 2-inch M15 or M10 S&W is probably the best advice you'll get if you're buying a gun just for this match, but you'll have to hunt for one. Being K-frames, you can get Comp III speedloaders for them...and a BIG edge!.... on reloads. If the rules alllow, and if you reload, putting up 158 bullets in .38 Long Colt cases (Midway has them) will help with ejection/reloading. Under the 2.25-inch barrel rules that the OP posted, a 2-inch M15 and Comp IIIs has got to be as good as it's going to get.

COF... I think SSR shooters tend to think alike! :roflol:This revo system does work. I shot a SSR classifer last weekend and doubt if the actual shooting on Stage 1 took two minutes. It sure saves a lot of time fumbling rounds in & out of the gun, and the round count is always right. The bottom feeders are the ones you have to watch. It really sucks when they go for the El Prez on Stages 1 or 2 and have miscounted their rounds and don't go to slide lock.

This situation can only occur on a true Tactcial Reload, and the common rule interpretation is that you may leave cover (since your gun is fully loaded in accordance with the rules) and you may stow the removed partial mag as you advance. But, it must be properly stowed before the next shot is fired.

If you are dealing strictly with Hodgdon labeled powders then HP38 would be my choice, Longshot will also work for both calibers, but it doesn't like "puff" minimum PF loads... you have to get above the minimum or you get sooty cases. Hodgdon also makes (and sells) Winchester Super Field (WSF) and I think that is the best 147/9mm powder available, and it will also work for 180/40.

158 grain LRN, 3.4 Clays in Long Colt Cases and 3.7 in .38 cases is a soft shooting load and handles properly set steel well. You may have to bump that a bit to make 125 PF (need 793 fps minimum) from a four-inch barrel gun, but it will make it from a 6 inch gun. I've seen lighter bullets, even at 125 PF, have problems with steel.

+1. The .40 S&W is one of the most widely used LE and self-defense cartridges out there. Standard velocity for a factory 180 slug is about 980, which makes 176+ PF. I can see no reason it should not be allowed in CDP. If you keep the 8 round mag Rule, then all those whiney CDP shooters (I'm CDP/EX) won't have any room to complain. If your .45 ACP gets beat by a .40 S&W with the same ammo load out... it wasn't the 'arrow'... it was the 'Indian'.

My understanding of the Rule requiring same magazine capacity throughout the match is that it was promlugated to prevent those dreaded "gamers" in CDP from choosing a seven round mag (7+1) for one stage... possibly to gain a competitive advantage on reload points... and then shifting to an 8 round mag (8+1) on another stage, when that capacity suited the stage better. I've shot IDPA Nationals with a 9mm using 17 round and 10 round mags... loaded to Division capacity + 1 at LAMR... and it was deemed legal. Just load the same number of bullets for each stage and you should be fine.

I did that at the 2011 IDPA World Championship (2 loads, 2 labeled bags, notified chrono man .. Ted Murphy) both passed chrono... no problem. If it is legal at the IDPA World Championship it is (or darn well should be!) legal at any IDPA match. Just declare mixed ammo and bag each properly for chrono.

LC brass fully ejects on the ejector stroke from my guns and I thought trimming 38 Spl to that length would be cool. At least, until I started running them through my RCBS manual case trimmer. I quit at about 25. That was as much as my hands could handle. They worked fine, but calling Midway for Starline LC was a heckuva lot easier. The 38 all wound up getting lost on the range (ICORE Classic division) because of the 38 headstamp. The LC is easier to pick up, and the 38 shooters don't confuse it with theirs so they find it easier to return to you if they collect one. I run a lot of IDPA and have a pile of 38 Spl loads. They are fine for ICORE practice, so I can just save the LC for matches. 500 cases last a long time that way.

As COF noted, shooting 'out of order' can save time, especially with revolver shooters on Stage 1, which is the BIG bottleneck in the Classifier. For revos I have them shoot String 4 first (2 head shots per target)... then reload and run Strings 1 & 2 (2 body/1 head) then reload and run String 3 (2 body/ 1 head). That leaves 3 rounds in the gun and I have them to the Mini Prez (1 round each target, reload, 1 more round per target). That leaves 3 in the gun, so now do the weak hand. Gun is clear, reload, and do strong hand. Saves a lot of time juggling rounds.

If you want shooters running around behind cover and re-engaging targets, that's actually not a bad idea. That might fly with the shooters. The question would be if... in Vickers scoring... the shooters 'stacked' the target on the first engagement and then just blasted rounds quickly in the general target direction as they made their second run on it. My suggestion for a 'two to the body..first... then re-engage later with one to the head'... would be to make it Limited Vickers scoring. Each round counted, and each round must count. COF description might read "Limited Vickers scoring: Engage each target with two rounds to the body before any target is engaged with one round to the head, scoring shall be two body shots and one separate head shot... and only one head shot shall score. Any body shot that strikes the head shall be scored as a miss." The COF description is the current Bible, and that would cover any whining. That would get you the need to move behind cover and re-engage targets... but might run afoul of the provisio that Limited scoring should not be used in scenario stage... and basically is just for Standards type stages. But, I think it would fly. Bill it as a "Standards Stage, no cover garment required" and go for it.

I can see nothing in the Rule Book that would prohibit the COF you have outlined. But, I can see a lot of shooters asking "What is the relevance, and why not just double tap each when you see them from your position of cover instead of all that running back and forth"? It's not the type of scenario that Tactical Sequence was intended to address... i.e. being confronted with multiple targets in the open and without cover at a relatively close range. I could envision some degree of shooter discontent.

That was a bad call,IMO. The newest Rules Addendum states: "At no time is it permissible to fire while holding an ammunition loading device." That is intended to stop shooters in SHO from having a magazine drawn and ready to reload. or (as I have seen a couple of times) a shooter behind cover drawing a magazine to reload while shooting the last target before the reload with their strong hand. I suppose it could depend upon the definition of 'holding a magazine'. If the magazine is in the carrier then it is being supported and held by the carrier. A hand resting on it is not holding it, merely touching it, IMHO. That should not be construed as violating the Rule, nor the spirit of the Rule. I hope that is an issue that the Tiger Teams are looking at, because there are too many different interpretations of the term "holding" being currently used. Having a hand resting on a magazine in a carrier can get you a PE at some clubs, and not a second glance at others. That's not the way to enforce a Rule.

The model 15 is a great choice for IDPA or ICORE. They require a Power factor of no more than standard pressure .38 Special. If you want to shoot USPSA (IIRC) you have to make a 125 PF for Minor Caliber... and most load to a 130 PF to assure a chrono passing. That 125-130 PF is in the +P range and I do not know if the Model 15 will stand up to that for extensive shooting. The Model 19 will, and that would be my choice if you want to compete in USPSA in Minor.

Regarding magazine capacity for the Classifier -- the Rule Book says one thing -- those of us who have run many Classifiers sometimes forget what the Rule Book says and just run things in the most expeditous manner possible. Koski's magazine load out formula works very well and saves a lot of time.

ChrisC... IDPA in Central & NE FL will only draw a half dozen or so revo shooters (SSR & ESR combined) for a 95 shooter club match. I do see many of those same names on website posted ICORE match scores. There is a pretty good crossover, just from a small pool of revo shooters. Jaxshooter - Yes, Volusia (shot there last month, won Classic Division, and plan on Nov) and Orlando. Have not gotten to Orlando yet, but I hear it's a good match, and the CFRPC has very good range facilities... I have shot a lot of IDPA there.

Question... if you get a bump at a sanctioned match... say from SS to EX.. and you then shoot the required annual Classifier and fail to shoot a EX score... are you still EX? And, does your match bump EX classification exist in the data base? Or, if your card wasn't signed after the match bump to elevate you to EX... does your SS Classifier take precedence? What are you?... and how do you prove what you are?