GOF

IDPA SSR is a 105 PF. A 158 bullet @ 675 fps makes it. That's light if any steel activators are involved in the COF. Most SSR shooters load to 115 - 120 PF. But, on an indoor range you might not have to deal with steel because of the bullets heading upwards. Every indoor range (including the Blackwater Shoot Houses) use just paper targets. A 105 PF is fine for those. For indoors, Rainier 158 plated RN, propelled by Clays... is REAL clean and smoke free. I've used them in IDPA and ICORE, and they are also very uniform and accurate. If Clays isn't available, then Win 231/HP 38 also works at the 115 PF levels, but you might want to brush your chambers every 30-40 rounds. It leaves a residue that can impede extraction. Hope that helps.

You'd have to run a 115 grain bullet at over 1120 fps to make a safe 120 PF, which may exceed published loading data for .32 H&R Magnum (although not for the Ruger .327 Mag). It would also be a supersonic load, instead of the sub-sonic 158/38/760. Some shooters find that supersonic crack contributes to more fatigue over the course of a lengthy match than the sub-sonic loads. Recoil? Just a guess, but more than a 158/38.760 fps. It would depend on gun weight, and a comp might help. With ICORE COFs being 6 shot neutral, I have to wonder why? A significant expense for the gun, then obtaining 'non-standard' componants (especially moon clips, and maybe even bullets), and the only real advantage I see would be on steel courses if you miss... or maybe on some 32+round field courses where mandatory reloads are not required, and it might save you a few seconds on reloads. I have to wonder if there is truly an actual advantage to the effort... or, if one just wants a super nifty gun and can pay the freight, then why not. But, I doubt if it will move anyone into the Winner's Circle... except at smaller clubs.

+1.The 'fundimentals' are called that for a reason. A new shooter WILL struggle initially with post & notch iron sights. But, they will learn SO MUCH. If the shooter is interested is continuing (and with a 5 year old that can be a coin toss) learning the basic fundimentals will be much to their advantage.

If there were any advantages to a .32, don't you think some of the upper level shooters would be using it? Just a thought

You still have to make a 120 PF. I'm sure that could be done with one of the various .32 cases availalble, if you disregard the current loading manuals and just make 'something' that works in a quality DA revolver. How many of those guns are out there?. How easy are the cases to acquire and how much do they cost? I shoot .38 LC, and guard them zealously.... although at the club I shoot at (Volusia, FL) we are real good about picking up brass and speedloaders while the scoring is done, and getting them back to the rightful owner. Which brings up another question... what kind of speedloaders are available fpr .32 if you choose to go Classic Division?... and are good moon clips available if you choose to go Limited or Open? As far as gaining any real 'competitive advantage' I can't really see a .32 being a better choice than a .38. And, the .38 componants and accessories are far easier to acquire. The gun is really only one componant of your ICORE gear. The rest has to work effectively if you are to be successfull. Sometimes it pays to look at the support items, instead of just the cartridge. I can't imagine a 120 PF .32 load being any softer in recoil, or more accurate, than a .38 LC/158 grain load I use and my six-inch Ruger GP-100 with 158 grain .38 LC loads has me currently in 1st Place in the Classic Division among FL shooters in the Postal Match. And, I think, overall, including Limited and Open, I am somewhere around 4th in FL in the Postal Match. You can do a lot with a .38, and all the accessories are readily available. LC cases (which the ejector stroke on my Ruger GP-100 clears completely from the chambers, just makes it better, and Starline has them.) make life a bit simplier than .38 Spl cases if you want to get 'outside the box'.

I totally agree with starting with iron sights and learning the fundimentals. Once those are learned, shifting to optics is easy. As to what gun? At her age she does not have adult-sized hands. I love my M&P .22, but the grip would be too large for a 'little person'. The grip size on the Ruger MK III (or MK II... which you might find used at a good price if you scout the internet) would IMHO, be more comfortable for her. The 22/45 could be a bit large, but if it fits her hand it's good to go. A .22 revolver, if fired DA, might present a problem with the lengthy trigger pull and longer trigger reach. You might let her"grip test' several guns and let her tell you what fits her hand. If you give a new shooter a handgun that they have to struggle with you have not done something positive, and you are not accelerating their learning curve. I think, maybe, the Ruger MKIII/MKII (with flat panel grips) might be worth looking at for a person that age/size.

IMHO, the raised safety bar lever on the Glock trigger is best handled by using the pad of the trigger finger. Trying to use the joint of the trigger finger produces inconsistent pressure on the trigger bar that prevents it from moving smoothly, and can cause jerking, flinching, heeling the gun, or a pre-ignition push downward. With the pad of the trigger finger you get a more consistent straight back trigger pull.

Ty, thanks for the link. If it happens again I'll sure use it. Steve, thanks for the info. I didn't think I had crossed any lines.... at least not lately.

Thanks for the offer, Steve. I just tried to log back on, and the problem seems to have been fixed. Don't know how, or why. It wasn't anything I did. But I appear to be in their Good Graces, again... at least for the moment We'll see what tomorrow brings.

I logged into the IDPA Forum about noon today. Same as I have for years. Logged in again at about 3:15 PM today and discovered that my ISP has been BANNED. It's the same one I have used for years. The pop up said contact an adminstrator for help. But, after ten minutes on the Yuku site there was no way to find an adminstrator. It basically said "Go to this for that", but wouldn't connect you to that. Was it something I said on the forum? Don't know. Didn't get anything from the Moderator. Been a IDPA member & SO since 2005. Seems kind surprising. Anybody else had this problem?

I'm not sure what you mean by non-specific gun drills. But you might try shooting on the move (moving forward, backward, and laterally... check your footwork) the gun will already be in the hand so the draw mechanics are non-specific. Another could be weak/strong hand... make sure the sights are on target when the trigger is pressed. Reload drills... the mag wells are similar enough... get the old one out and the new one in without breakibng target focuss. Just some thoughts. But, regular practice is good. You may be overthinking the thing. Running your regular draw/shoot practice is a good thing.

HP38/231 is an excellent choice for reduced loads in both calibers. WSF works well for reduced loads in 9mm, and is adequate for .45. International Clays works well for loads approaching full powder, but doesn't give a complete burn on 'bare PF' loads. If you are using lead bullets in the 45, Clays (plain Clays) is GREAT. But I wouldn't use it in 9mm... too fast for the small case capacity. If I HAD to pick one powder for both it would be HP38/231 (same powder, different can).

Midway seemed to go to h$ll about three years ago. Before that I ordered from them regularly and had an industry account entitling me to a discount. I got the discount on anything I purchased. One day I ordered and didn't get the discount. I asked why and got a song & dance about "It always has applied only to certain items, and this isn't one of them." That was a bald faced lie, because that item was one I ordered frequently and had always received a discount on. Two subsequent orders on regular items I had always received a discount did not get the discount... but got me the same lie. When a business starts lying to long time preferred customers it's a sign of serious problems. I no longer do business with them. I will not patronize a business that lies to their customers.

For a 20 yard sight in target, try this -- use a 8x10 sheet of plain white copy paper with a four inch black square in the middle, and put it on a clean cardboard target backing. Your POA is a 6:00 o'clock hold with the sights right on the bottom of the black square. This gives you a very crisp and clearly defined aiming point and the four inch square will fit your front sight at 20 yards. The white paper below gives you the ability to see perfect/consistent sight alignment. Trying to hold sights in the middle of a large circle does not always give you a consistent sight picture. You can wobble in the circle. You've got one group in your pics that is pretty good, and to POA. That OAL looks like it works. If that load doesn't make PF, I would think that bumping the powder charge in .3 grain increments would get you there and with the same POI. Let us know how things go. You are on the right track.

The wording of the Rule is "may" wear speedloaders in various places. It does not require they be worn in those places, just that they "may" be worn there. Based upon that, I would say that if you wished to carry three speedloaders on your weak side you can. But they must be positioned behind the hipbone... in the same position that CDP/SSP/ESP shooters would be required to carry their magazines.

Another time the Tap-Rack is less than desirable is if you have a squib, and only hear the click of the firing pin striking the primer. If you think misfire and Tap-Rack to chamber another round, and the bullet has gone far enough into the barrel that the round will chamber, the only clue you have to a squib is seeing the ejected case come out of the gun without a bullet in it. If you miss that clue, your KABOOM is only a fraction of a second away. It's something to think about. I've seen it happen.

You did not tell us if you are right or left handed. But, if you are right handed your bench rest group looks like classic "heeling the gun". That means that your gun hand & forearm are trying so hard to steady the sights that you are applying addition pressure to the lower butt of the gun and sending the shots high right. The freestyle target shows some obvious trigger jerks (7:00 O'clock low left) but enough in the center portion that the guns seems to be more or less on. You might try this: repeat the 25 yard bench rest tests but do not rest the gun on the sandbag. Rest your forearms just behind the wrists on the bag. Try to achieve the same grip pressure you use in freestyle, and just use the forearms on the bag to support the gun/hand/arms and reduce wobble. Anytime you change your grip pressure, and pressure points, while gripping the gun you can (and likely will) change the point of impact. Try using the rest to just support the forearms, reduce wobble, and try to achieve the same grip pressure you use in freestyle. If you are left hand... I can't help.... but in looking at the targets i suspect you are right handed.

I think IDPA has discovered that the re-certification procedures they used did not meet with the approval of a significant percentage of the 'volunteers SOs' who actually make the sport function, and that a number of them decided to 'unvolunteer' and just return to being a competitor. I think they lost a fair number of veteran SOs and extending the testing period over their rather dictatorial initial time frame was an attempt to lure some back in. Only time will tell that was successful or not. Re-certification is an excellent idea. I think it was just poorly implemented.

Are you trying to fit a round peg in a square hole? Longshot, Clays, HP38/231, Clays Universal, WSF, and others will all get your 185 to 850 fps. I think PB is a bit too slow to make a good target/PF load.

I'm running LC brass (not much different than cut down .38 Spl) with a 158 LRN, 3.3 grains Clays, and it runs an average of 780 fps from a 6-inch GP-100 (ICORE). Recoil is nothing! ... less than the 3.6 Clays/38 SPL case load I use for IDPA in a 4 inch GP-100. If you're shooting a .357 gun, my guess is you could make 820 fps at 3.6 - 3.7... which is below .357 load max. Is it the Titegroup? That stuff, in my experience, is pretty harsh. Clays is noticeably softer, and cleaner, and you don't burn your hand when you grab an open cylinder after a long COF. I did cut some .38 Spl down to LC length... same load... couldn't tell the difference. Except, for all the time and effort I had to spend cutting 38 down on a RCBS hand trimmer. I said the heck with that and just ordered another 1,000 LC cases.

IMHO, a lot of bench rest accuracy testing depends upon the target you use. It needs to provide a very clear sight alignment/sight picture to a precise POA. The head box on a IDPA or USPSA target works well for me. The size, background, etc. lets me get a very consistent sight alignment/sight picture. The draw back is that shots off of it don't show. The sight in target I now use at 25 yards (the distance I want to zero competition handguns) is a sheet of 8x11 white copy paper with a cut off head from a IDPA/USPSA target stapled over it. It's a crisp and clear sight picture. Put on a larger cardboard target back, it lets me see everything. If your target doesn't give you a precise POA it will show in the groups you shoot. I also just rest the gun in a normal freestyle grip lightly on top of a sandbag. This steadies the gun, and approximates the normal recoil I will get in a match shooting freestyle. And recoil is a factor in bullet placement because the gun will begin to recoil upwards while the round is still in the barrel, and the grip you use will determine where it recoils to. If the grip is inconsistent you will get vertical stringing that can skew accuracy tests. It works for me, but maybe not for all.

Jim's post is spot on! When only the primer is present you may not always hear the very 'soft pop' of the primer. An attentive SO/RO with good electronic ears might, or the shooter if they are so equipped. But, most of the time you hear a 'click'. For trained shooters the immediate response to a 'click' is to assume a misfire, execute a tap & rack drill and continue. If that is done, the only indication of a squib in the barrel will be if the shooter or SO/RO sees that the case being racked from the gun is empty, instead of being tipped with a bullet. If that is missed and the bullet has gone far enough into the barrel to allow a new round to be chambered, your KABOOM is only milliseconds away. The same thing can happen to a revo if the shooter assumes a misfire and just 'pulls the trigger again'. Loaded rounds without any powder can ruin your day. The Rules in various games would seem to penalize a shooter who stops himself on a POSSIBLE squib, instead of having the SO/RO issue the stop. I have stopped myself twice (beating the SO to the call) but it was at a local club match where just about everybody on the squad was a MA/EX/SS IDPA SO. I think the Rules, in the interest of safety, should allow the shooter to call the stop and receive a re-shoot, even if the round managed to get out of the barrel. If the shot 'doesn't sound right', and is significant enough for the shooter to call stop, I don't think the shooter should be penalized, even if the round made it down range.

You could have saved a couple hundred bucks, and got a better gun, if you went to a M&P .45... and then you wouldn't have to worry about that long 1911 ejector detonating a cartridge when you do your "cool" flip and catch "show off" routine. I would have inserted an Icon here, but I couldn't find one for Troll. Or, the other thoughts I had regarding your post.

M&P 45. The grip angle is perfect for my hand. The gun is utterly reliable and more than accurate enough to hit the 0 Zone. And, the basic gun, with a Burwell trigger job, Dawsen sights, and a strip of skateboard tape is still significantly less expensive than a 1911/2011 that is competition ready.

"Arguing with a fool is like rolling around in the mud with a pig. You both get filthy dirty, but the pig enjoys it" Have fun in the mud, guys. I'm done. Do all the 'show off flip & catch' you want. It's still a childish, and potentially hazrdous, action. But, if it makes you feel like a 'hotshot'.... then your ego must be quite a bit larger than your IQ.