GOF

From a reloader's perspective there is no difference at all! - load it up with your standard loads and you're good to go. I'm not certain that there is ANY difference at all and I suspect that the +P stamp on factory ammo is just to denote a +P powder charge, and the brass is the same as standard pressure loads.

A 686 38 Super with a barrel of 4.2 inches or less is good to go in IDPA SSR Division with a PF of 105.. IF.. you load it from a speedloader. If you load it from moon clips it moves to ESR and must make a 165 PF. I am a IDPA SO, and a copy of the current Rule Book lives in my range bag.

When the primer ignites the powder the recoil of the gun will begin while the bullet is still in the barrel. If the handgun is gripped in a consistent manner... whether using moderate or hard grip pressure... the bullets will leave the barrel in a consistent manner and impact where your sights are set. If the grip pressure is inconsistent, the POI will be inconsistent because the gun will recoil differently for each shot and the bullet will leave the barrel with the gun in a different position. A consistent grip and pressure on the gun is needed for a consistant POI. I learned that many years ago in bullseye competition as a US Navy team pistol shooter. Whether you 'crush' the gun, or use a 'firm handshake' grip... if you keep it consistent your accuracy will be consistent. Finding the level of grip pressure that allows you to control recoil and allow the gun to recoil to a consistent position for follow up shots is... IMHO... important for maximum accuracy. That also depends upon how much accuracy you need. If I can shoot consistent 6 inch freestyle groups at 50 yards in ICORE I'm happy. In IDPA I'm happy with 6 inch groups at half that range... as long as I can do them quickly. But... the grip does affect accuracy.

It is highly unlikely that a revo shooter would ever get a bump, under the current Rules. There just aren't enough people competing. A change in the Rules for revo shooters/match bump, would make sense.

A match bump depends upon who else showed up at the match, and what kind of a day they had. Depending upon the competition the shooter faced on that day, a match bump could be very satisfying, The Classifier is a fixed course of fire that depends soley on the shooter engaging it at the time. That can also be satisfying. I guess it depends upon your perspective. I will note... IMHO... that if you can't shoot a MA score on the Classifier, don't expect to beat too many MAs in a match.

With Clays, 3.6 grains gets me about 757 fps from a 4-inch Ruger GP-100. A 105 PF in IDPA looks attractive, but it will cause problems with steel.... and if that steel is an activator target you have just screwed up your stage plan when you have to whack it 2 or 3 times to get it to fall. In theory, since 105 PF is the standard for IDPA SSR, then falling steel should be calibrated for it. Unfortunately, when IDPA came up with the 105 PF they failed to mandate any calibration procedure for steel. There is no Rule for calibrating steel in IDPA, so you need to deal with that. Clays is very clean, especially with plated bullets (although it's pretty clean with lead too). I have shot 80-90 round club matches shooting 3.6 clays with lead or plated, and forgot to scrub cylinders, but didn't have an extraction problem. I would not have been able to do that with 231/HP38. As for scrubbing chambers between stages, Harlytech has the right ida with a .38 cal tornado brush followed by a .40 caliber bristle brush. I think he learned that from watching SSR shooters while he was a SO at the IDPA World Championship match in Frostproof, FL.

That is excellent advice if you are so desperate to win a cheap wooden trophy that you are willing to violate the rules of the game and cheat to win. Second thought - at a Sanctioned match you have to submit ammo for a chronograph. Short Colts will be found out there. Third thought - if you survive the chrono by sticking in some 38 Spl loads, you still have to shoot the match... and some SOs also shoot revo. If they look at your brass on the gound and see Short Colt, you get a DQ... even if you were slick enough to slide through the chrono stage with bogus 38 Spl loads. Last thought - if you get caught you are forever branded as a 'cheater'... right from the DQ you earned that will be permenently displayed on the hosting clubs' website.. to any forum talking about cheaters.... and it will follow you. Is it worth it to follow the above advice to go ahead and cheat?

If you shoot cast lead bullets with the required external waxy lubricant you are going to get smoke. Fact if life. It's the lube burning as the bullet goes down the barrel. You can also get some smoke with the new 'wunderskind' coatings on lead bullets (but not with plated lead). Some powders produce less smoke than others, but all will smoke. TightGroup is the VERY worst offender in the smoke department. You might want to try Clays, 231/HP38, or WSF. They'll still smoke... but not nearly as much as some other powders.

I am not one of the 'top guys' and couldn't tell you whether my 25 yard hit was high right or left in the A Zone. But, I can tell when I heeled one high and right (I'm a right handed shooter) or pushed one right, or jerked one low and left. Or just screwed the pooch and triggered a shot before my sights were where they needed to be. That comes with time on the range... shooting paper targets... and then looking at the target in relation to what you saw of the sights. It does happen with time, practice, and experience. As far as one poster's definition of 'point shooting' as triggering the shot without the gun/sights within your vision, I'll buy that as a definition of true 'point shooting'. Most shooters define 'point shooting' as not paying a lot of attention to the sights, but seeing gun/hand over the target. I'm not sure that's the best definition. If the gun/hand are visible over the target that is more of a register than a point. But, I would bet if you asked the 'point shooters' to truly describe their technique... and if they gave it some thought... most would agreee that the front sight of the gun was 'somewhere' within their vision and they did register on that front sight.

RE: Knee pads, wrist braces, etc. I shoot in Florida, one of the most active IDPA states and have been to seven or eight different clubs, and have travelled quite a bit in the Southeast to shoot sanctioned matches. The majority of the shooters I see are over 35 years of age. Of those, the majority are over 45. Life in general takes a toll on the body. Old knees, ankles, wrists, etc... can use a little protection just as a physical safety issue. I see no reason why older shooters (or any shooter) should be denied basic body protection during what is nothing more than a sporting event. If I had a dollar for everytime I've had to take a knee and landed on a fired case, I could buy a new gun or two. I think these items should be allowed. As for whether or not we would wear these to Wal-Mart, I don't see the logic of that connection. I also don't wear shooting glasses, electronic muffs when I go there either. Those are safety items I wear when shooting.... the same as lnee pads and braces. I also don't wear a fishing vest in Wal-Mart either.

I use 3.4 grains WSF with the Rainer 147 FP in my 4.25 inch stock barrel M&P 9mm. It chronos about 875 fps (need 851 for 125)... functions the gun perfectly and doesn't put brass in my face. Accuracy is about 3 inches at 25 yards. It is very clean burning and doesn't scum up the gun. The 3.8 grain 231 load is also good, but WSF is cleaner. I've shot many thousands of the WSF/Rainer 147, and it got me to IDPA SSP Master

If you could tell us what you want to use the load for... do you have to make a PF?... and what bullets are available to you, in what weights, we might be able to help. For just a light 'piddling around' load with the powders you mentioned I would say... with a 158 grain lead bullet... 4 grains 231, or 3.3 Bullseye, or 3.6 AA2 would make a light load .. although they may not make the PF for ICORE or USPSA. All of these are under max .38 Spl pressures. Can't help on the powder die change on the Dillon. I don't use a Dillon press and am not familiar with them. If you are shooting 158 lead in competition I would suggest you look at Clays... 3.6-3.7 grains. Soft recoil, very clean, and minimal smoke.... this load should make a 120 ICORE PF from a 4-inch gun... add 1/10 grain to get to 125 for USPSA.

Weak hand shooting practice (and dry fire) always helps. But, on the IDPA Classifier you only have 3 weak hand shots, and from 7 yards.The gun will start weak hand at a 45 degree down, low ready, with the finger outside the trigger guard. At the buzzer you bring the gun up and put one round in each of the 3 targets. Some shooters try to 'burn' that stage in 2.2 seconds or less. That's good if they don't hit more than one or two -1s... bad if they whack a couple of -3s. Not all that difficult if they just bring the gun up in no hurry and shoot three -0s. By shooting a bit slower your time can actually be a bit 'faster'... once you lose the down points. Don't let the buzzer dictate your pace. Let your sights dictate your pace. That holds true for every one of the 90 rounds you will shoot on the Classifier.

No. On the weak hand string it just means that the safety on SA guns may be off, but the shooter's finger must be outside the trigger guard. With a DA/SA gun it depends what division you are shooting it in. SSP says hammer down DA for first shot. ESP says cocked... if the gun is capable of cocked & locked start. You didn't mention what gun and what Division you were classifying in. Feel free to ask questions. I'm a SO and have run many classifiers over the last 7 years.

Don't let the 'on the clock' Classifier overwhelm you. As noted, find your sights... find the O Zone... press the trigger... repeat as neccesary. Shoot the Classifier at a pace that allows you to feel comfortable in making accurate shots. That will put you in the Class where you truly belong.

I wouldn't use TightGroup with ANY lead bullet,.... regardless of the coating. WSF - 3.3-3.4 grains should get you a very good load in the 130+PF range... and without all the smoke that TightGroup produces. And, that is a well below max load, so you can increase it if you want. Clean load, soft recoil. I fail to understand the fascination with TightGroup. I have found it to be the 'best' power for NO loads.. and the WORST with most.

I've been reloading since 1969 and that is the best advice anyone can give a new reloader. Walk before you run. Reloading is a simple mechanical process. It's really not much different than cleaning a gun, changing a light bulb, or baking a cake. If you follow the 'steps' correctly, good things result. Basically, all you are doing is returning the fired brass to its original dimensions and removing the spent primer. That is done with one die. Then you bell the case mouth slightly to allow a new bullet to be seated, another die does that. Then you install a news primer; there are various tools for that. Then you add the appropriate charge of the appropriate powder with a volume drop powder measure, and there is much data on this forum to tell you the appropriate powders and charges. Then you stick a bullet in the case and seat it; another die does that. Revolvers often use a roll crimp in that process and the revolver bullet seating dies do that. Semi-autos normally require a taper crimp, and a seperate dies does that. A single stage press is the best way to learn all of that correctly, and safely. Once learned, you can go for high volume automation.

If you are loading to make the required PFs in USPSA/IDPA I think you would be best served with Clays for 45 lead bullet/Major loads in 230 grains.. with WSF the best for 9mm, and good at Major in .40 & 45 with jacketed bullets... and 231/HP38 as a powder who could handle them all.... it's a very versatile powder for target PF loads in all the calibers/bullet weights you mentioned, whether lead or jacketed.

3.4 grains WSF works very well for me with 147 bullets, although your 231 load isn't that far off from the recoil aspect. I have played with 3.5 231, but you're not talking a big difference in recoil.

It sounds like you are "heeling the gun"... pushing into the recoil with your strong hand and sending shots high/right, if you are a right handed shooter. Lefties push high left.. The shooter's grip plays a major part of shot placement. If you're 'heeling shots' (right handed shooter) everything is going to go high right... no matter how many times you adjust the sights. You might want to check your grip with a simple "Focus Drill". Put up a target at 4 yards and stick a one-inch aiming dot in the center. Try to chew that dot into nothing while deliberately firing one round... bringing the gun down.. then bringing it back up for another. Repeat five times. Concentrate on the sights... clean trigger break... forget the second shot or double taps... one round at a time... Focus on the sights. The target will tell.

There is a very logical reason for having that funny little 'bump' out there at the end of the barrel.

At ranges under 7 yards in IDPA/USPSA/ICORE the only thing I am actually seeing is a clear front FO sight, and some 'level' of it's relationship to the rear sight. That includes the first and second shots on a target. The down 0 scoring zones are generous enough that I (and many other shooters) can get away with that 'faster' look at the sights. Increase the distance and that doesn't work very well (at least for this shooter). I have always believed that the degree of refinement in the sight picture that is required to make a down 0 hit ( or an acceptable hit) is totally dependent upon the distance one is from the target. It can vary among shooters. It can also vary among the 'games'. You can get sloppy in USPSA if you do it fast enough. In IDPA you have to strike more of a balance between speed and accuracy. In ICORE you had better do no worse than a B Zone hit, or the down penalties will eat you up badly. And, if you're shooting Bs, you'd better be doing it real fast because those one second penalties for Bs can add up. It's all situational, and shooters have to figure out where their comfort zone is in relation to the scoring zones on the target. With all that said, I'm not sure there is one set answer to the OP's question.

Racefan, ALWAYS keep your powder hopper at least half full. Low powder hopper volume can cause light powder drops. Also, don't leave powder in the hopper overnight... a chemical reaction can take place between the plastic hopper material and the powder. Also, I find WSF to be an IDEAL powder for 147 grain 9mm loads. It's not all that expensive either. There are 7000 grains in a pound and at 3.4 grains you can get 2000 loads out of a pound of WSF. I'm not a fan of TightGroup. 231/HP38 is a better bet, but I think WSF is the best bet.

I've not had a problem with nickle cases in 9mm or 45 ACP because I don't pick up my semi-auto brass, so it was basically the first reload from fired factory cases. In .38 Spl I have had no problems with Speer or Federal nickle cases and have tumbled them enough times to start wearing the plating off. Winchester and Remington 38 Spl cases are a different story. I have yet to have one of those make it through the third re-sizing without a side case split (not a neck split... just a big split on the side of the case).... some split on the first re-sizing. I think it has to do with the plating process used that makes their brass far more brittle than others. I don't even bother to pick up nickle .38 Spl brass anymore, and would certainly never buy any.

231/HP38 can make a nice 147 grain 9mm load. Use the starting load and work up. As for 147 grain bullets being inaccurate in a M&P, I can't accept that based upon my experience. Myself and several shooting buddies shoot M&Ps (5 inch and 4.25 inch guns)and 147s are very accurate. In fact, the Federal American Eagle 147 is what we all use for sanctioned matches... it's the most accurate non-JHP load (in any bullet weight) we have found in our guns. My 9mm practice & club match load is a Rainier 147 plated ahead of 3.4 grains WSF. Runs 880 fps in my 4.25 inch M&P gun and holds 2.5 inch bench rest groups at 25 yards (which is more than enough for IDPA/USPSA and as good as my old eyes can shoot). Very soft recoil