dmshozer1

I have been using a Ciner conversion in different Ar's for the last seven years with zero problems that I knew of. No fouling, no gas port problems, no loss in accuracy that I could tell but the barrels I was using were not of the best quality so I could not tell for sure. For the last two years I have been using a 20" Wilson s/s 1/8 twist very accurate barrel. On a good day from a rest it shoots 2" groups at 300 yds. I was skeptical to use the conversion in it so I called my friend who has a very expensive bore scope. I thoroughly cleaned the barrel, bore scoped it, then shot 550 rds. of Federal bulk pack through it and then scoped it with out cleaning it. First few inches were dirty with what appeared to be some sort of black crud? The rest of the barrel was as before I shot it. Perfectly clean! No leading, no fouling what so ever. Ran a dry patch down the barrel and out came the black crud. Extra lube on the 22's, don't know but the barrel now looked like it had never been shot. After two years of shooting thousands of 22's through it, the accuracy is the same. We bore scoped it a few weeks ago and the barrel is showing normal throat erosion and wear. In the last year our club and others have got into 22 rifle matches and lots of practice for 3gun events and except for dealing with poor ammo, no problems. Been at this game for a long time and have never heard of anyone blowing up there gun because of shooting 22's through it.I suppose it is possible but I don't know how. I forgot, we ran the same experiment on two other rifles and they were not fouled either. Can't explain it but there you have it! Dmshozer1 Thanks for posting this! It seems like there is so much "info" just floating around that is just a "feeling" about something. I love it when actual data is posted like with your bore scope findings. No disrespect intended to the other posters at all, just saying, this is just the info I needed to make an informed decision for myself since I had wondered the same with my CMMG kit. I think it was Edward Deming that said, "In God we trust, all others bring data." I wish I had access to a bore scope myself. Thanks, I appreciate that.

I have been using a Ciner conversion in different Ar's for the last seven years with zero problems that I knew of. No fouling, no gas port problems, no loss in accuracy that I could tell but the barrels I was using were not of the best quality so I could not tell for sure. For the last two years I have been using a 20" Wilson s/s 1/8 twist very accurate barrel. On a good day from a rest it shoots 2" groups at 300 yds. I was skeptical to use the conversion in it so I called my friend who has a very expensive bore scope. I thoroughly cleaned the barrel, bore scoped it, then shot 550 rds. of Federal bulk pack through it and then scoped it with out cleaning it. First few inches were dirty with what appeared to be some sort of black crud? The rest of the barrel was as before I shot it. Perfectly clean! No leading, no fouling what so ever. Ran a dry patch down the barrel and out came the black crud. Extra lube on the 22's, don't know but the barrel now looked like it had never been shot. After two years of shooting thousands of 22's through it, the accuracy is the same. We bore scoped it a few weeks ago and the barrel is showing normal throat erosion and wear. In the last year our club and others have got into 22 rifle matches and lots of practice for 3gun events and except for dealing with poor ammo, no problems. Been at this game for a long time and have never heard of anyone blowing up there gun because of shooting 22's through it.I suppose it is possible but I don't know how. I forgot, we ran the same experiment on two other rifles and they were not fouled either. Can't explain it but there you have it!

Tough on the feed lips!!

Has your match filled up for am's?

Actually, not so much. Most of the shooters I talk to who say such things are shooting RM3G since that is the match I work. They have ranges open to competitors to shoot long range prior to the match, they just don't take advantage of it. If that is the case then they deserve your comments.

Out to 400 yards or so, the 55s have an advantage in that they shoot flatter. In strong winds, past 400 yards, you do start to get some advantage with heavier slugs as far as wind drift is concerned. In some cases, LaRues can have issues at further ranges, but usually because they are improperly set. That can be a tough argument with a match official. MGM spinners are definately easier to spin with the heavier slugs at 100 yards and beyond. Inside of 100 yards, maybe, maybe not. I can't tell much of a difference. So pack some heavies for IronMan. I've made notes of a lot of stuff over the years in this game. I might let the technical stuff be too large of an issue for me at times, but what it really comes down to is this: Can you hit the targets from 2 to 600 yards fast and accurately with confidence? I am still shocked at how many people show up at a major match, look at a target at several hundred yards out and say something like "I hope I can see my misses so I can walk it in." If you have not shot 55s and 69s, and 77s at distance, in your gun, with your loads and verified dope, you are just guessing. For the vast majority, picking a 55 grain load and practicing with it is much better than spending the time, money and energy to work up a bunch of different loads. FWIW, I went to 55s across the course in October of 2010. My confidence and scores have improved. I still carry a small stash of 69s for the "Just in Case" targets. The two times I wavered and went to 69s at longer targets did not go so well. The people you are talking about probably have never had a range to practice that far a shot and have to go with a ballistic chart that in my opinion is a guess until you have verified with actual shooting so don't be so hard on them. They are doing the best they can.

Glad you are okay and that you got back on the horse! Take care

Nice job! Fun watching the video! Good recovery on the face plant. been there. Take care

These are some of the shooters that actually use the high end scopes. My post is about the shooters that have the high end gear but don't use it.

Thanks Trap.

The first part of your post is what I am talking about! Shooters with capable gear but don't even try. I agree that you need a quality scope but I think you can buy them for a lot less than $2000 or so. I have the "cheap" Vortex 1x4. Scott at Vortex assured me that with a good mount it would hold zero and it is not hazy. Take care P.S. Paid $500 for it.

The first part of your post is what I am talking about! Shooters with capable gear but don't even try. I agree that you need a quality scope but I think you can buy them for a lot less than $2000 or so. I have the "cheap" Vortex 1x4. Scott at Vortex assured me that with a good mount it would hold zero and it is not hazy. Take care

I agree with you Jim. But I think you will agree that there are very good scopes available to do the job in the $500 to $1000 range. Take care

Everyones situation is different. First off the scope and mount I have (Swarovski Z6i with Larue mount) did not cost me 3 grand. Swarovski offers a good LEO military discount so I paid a lot less than that. Second. In some matches the longer targets have significant penalties if you don't hit them so they are worth it. 3rd I find myself running more short on time vs money when it comes to the game. I am not rich but I can usually afford the toys I want. The problem is up here in Alaska we have a short outdoor shooting season so we only have a narrow window for three gun matches. (May -Sept) I work a 4 10 schedule and on my three days off I usually spend one day traveling to and shooting a match, 1 day practicing at the range and 1 day getting the house clean, and getting ready for the next work week. I work swings so I can' really shoot before or after work. So for me even if I could afford all the ammo I wanted I would not have the time to shoot it all up. I also do use my Spikes 22 long rifle AR for a lot of my rifle practice. I find that I don't practice with my shotgun much at all. I mostly practice with my pistols and my Ar's. In the winter I shoot 2 pistol matches a month. I have to drive 3 hours to get to them and they are at an indoor range. 1 IDPA match and 1 USPSA match. I practice outdoors as much as the weather allows. Which during some months means never. I understand your problem. My problem is with people that spend a ton of money on equipment that is capable of making the long shots then post that they are not worth the time it takes to make them. Sounds to me like the shooter is the problem. I like your videos! Take care

Because I can!

What is the sense in laying out three grand for a 1x6 scope, and mount? Go on forever about ballistic programs, and then state that a 400 or 500 hundred yard target in a match is not worth the time it takes to hit it. Would it not be better to buy a reasonable priced scope and spend the $2OOO you saved on ammo to practice with? I mean really, most of the stages require a low power, wide field of view scope so why waste the money? Just saying

Matt, Very nice match! I don't know you set it up in that nasty weather but a big THANK YOU!! See you at your 3man 3gun match. Take care

Ben, If you want to use a scope, the 1x4 is what most use in tactical division. You will be shooting targets from 5 to 325 yds, sometimes in one stage so you will be turning your scope up and down as required. Most shots will be 20 to 50 yd. 30 rd. mags are what you need. Most stages are 20 to 40 rds. so you will need to carry at least two 30 rounders. I carry three. Mag pouches are the way to go but pockets will do for now. You will have a good idea what you need to get after this match just by seeing what people are using. Ask your squad members what they are using and why. They will be good people and will be willing to share until you get better! Ha ha. Don't know if the stages will be published or not.

Chris, Now I know why there is one class for shotguns. Keep up the good work!!!

The problem is the fact that there is only one class for shotgun. A one round at a time loader is going to be shooting against a Saiga that can load ten rds. in three seconds. Would it be fun? Yes,but I would at least like to have a chance to win after blowing 250 shotgun rds. downrange! I don't understand why they do not have separate classes for the shotgun event as they do for pistols? Just saying

Most shooters cannot tell if they have good hits on a paper target until they score it. It is very obvious if you have not knocked down a popper!

I don't like it either but your right,life goes on. Take care

Ray did not answer the question of whether they could engage the popper, miss, move on to the next target and then shoot the popper that they missed. He only answered the question of engagement. To my way of thinking,unlike a paper target,when you miss a popper, it is very obvious. To then move out from cover to shoot the next threat, you have exposed yourself to a obvious threat. Cover penalty.

Well, don't misunderstand completely, it is good to go out of the box, but I had done extreme mods to my FN, and have learned to load with it that way, so it was more "me rather than the gun". The "speed bump" on the top of the mag tube is actually the follower stop, and I only removed about 3/8" of the circumference, just so a shell would grease past it (seems you have a point on this part though). Now, my burned in habits don't have to change. If you get this gun, and learn to load with it, then you'll never notice. Or, if you switched from a bone stock FN, then you'll be like it really is that much better. Enjoy Kyle, Just busting ya.

Knowing that this gun was bought for competition,I would have expected that to be already done. It is a standard modification done to almost every shotgun used in 3gun by the owners. I heard this very expensive gun was ready to go but I guess not.