Any benifit to Jacketed bullet vs coated vs plated?

[9x45]

sanders, yea, a high value ballistic value doesn't empirically transfer into more accuracy. I'm taking a guess here, but do you work for Precision Delta? So you must have an R&D department that tests competitors bullets? Didn't know that CMJs were 2 separate pieces..

[Ssanders224]

47 minutes ago, 9x45 said:

sanders, yea, a high value ballistic value doesn't empirically transfer into more accuracy. I'm taking a guess here, but do you work for Precision Delta? So you must have an R&D department that tests competitors bullets? Didn't know that CMJs were 2 separate pieces..

 

You'd be correct.  I'm an Eng./Production Mang. at PD.

I try to be as un biased as I can when talking bullets on here though. 

And again correct, designing, dissecting, and testing bullets is pretty much an every day affair

 

CMJ sometimes gets used to describe plated bullets which isn't really correct.

They are (in the case of MGs) a true fmj bullet that basically has a "cap" over the exposed lead base.

if you know a little about how bullets are assembled, then you know that it's darn near impossible to form a completely enclosed bullet from a single jacket. They have their purpose, and MG does them well, but I don't see the point of them for USPSA.

 Mainly, I don't understand why anyone would pay MORE for CMJs for their Open guns when they can shoot JHPs for less money? 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ssanders224

[Bullets]

16 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Jacketed is the way to go in OPEN - Major.

 

For everything else, use coated.     

Agree 100%

[kimberacp]

jacketed, is the only to go.....

[CrashDodson]

Would help to know what division your loading for.  In .40 major coated makes sense.  Less powder for a charge thats nearing pressure maxes anyway.  As accurate as one needs to be in USPSA.  If your practicing and shooting a lot the price does make a big difference.  Less per bullet...little less powder means I can shoot more.  I shoot coated for everything from dot drills to area matches.  .9 minor coated is great also.  If your shooting an open gun thats when coated is probably not for you.  

[JohnnyD]

I've been all over the map in terms of projectiles in the almost 5 years I've been reloading.

 

Started out Jacketed, then plated, then I started casting my own, got busy switched to coated now back to jacketed.

 

Jacketed - Easy to Load and Accurate

Plated - Worked just fine, accurate enough

Cast - Smoky, messy, leaded

Coated - Leaded both of my XD's bad (tried SNS, Blue and Egglestons)

 

I just switched back to jacketed, I can get 124gr's for 8.5 shipped, no mess, easy to load and accurate.  Saving $100 a year to mess with the coated not worth it anymore for me (I shoot around 7k a year).  I could save a few bucks going to plated, but at my volume of shooting I'll take the slightly more accurate bullet (even though it likely wouldn't show in my shooting).  

Edited March 10, 2017 by JohnnyD

[Racinready300ex]

33 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

I've been all over the map in terms of projectiles in the almost 5 years I've been reloading.

 

Started out Jacketed, then plated, then I started casting my own, got busy switched to coated now back to jacketed.

 

Jacketed - Easy to Load and Accurate

Plated - Worked just fine, accurate enough

Cast - Smoky, messy, leaded

Coated - Leaded both of my XD's bad (tried SNS, Blue and Egglestons)

 

I just switched back to jacketed, I can get 124gr's for 8.5 shipped, no mess, easy to load and accurate.  Saving $100 a year to mess with the coated not worth it anymore for me (I shoot around 7k a year).  I could save a few bucks going to plated, but at my volume of shooting I'll take the slightly more accurate bullet (even though it likely wouldn't show in my shooting).  

 

I think you were doing something wrong with the coated bullets. My guess would be over crimping as that is pretty common mistake for someone who switches from jacketed to coated. I've run 10's of thousands of coated bullets through glocks, revolvers and STI's with no leading problems.

[JohnnyD]

14 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think you were doing something wrong with the coated bullets. My guess would be over crimping as that is pretty common mistake for someone who switches from jacketed to coated. I've run 10's of thousands of coated bullets through glocks, revolvers and STI's with no leading problems.

 

I don't think so.  I pulled a bunch of bullets and the coating was still in tact, no marks on the coating from crimp (or lack thereof) and the diameter of the bullets were not changed either.

 

I went through the hassle of measuring a bullet, seating it and using my bullet puller/hammer and they were exactly the same size.  Even using .358 diameter bullets didn't cure the problem (definitely was better but still a good bit of leading after 100 rounds).

 

That's why I said efffff it and just decided to eat the extra $100 a year.

[dvc4you]

I had good experience with BBI bullets in open so far...I used to swear by MG .

Do your own experiment, you will be surprised.

[JohnnyD]

12 minutes ago, 57K said:

 

JohnnyD, I hate to ask the obvious, but have you confirmed that you have a good OACL by the "plunk & Spin" test? Most of the coatings are rated up to 1500 FPS, some higher, and there must be some reason for why you're seeing leading.

 

Not a problem, but yes.  They would spin freely and make a loud plunk when dropped.

 

The leading was worse with Titegroup but I still got it using Unique.

 

All loaded on Dillon 650 with Lee Dies.  I did use a taper crimp die and not the FCD...the FCD was a leading nightmare.

[Racinready300ex]

Did you pull bullets to make sure the crimp wasn't cutting through the coating?

[JohnnyD]

4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

Did you pull bullets to make sure the crimp wasn't cutting through the coating?

 

Yes, see all my above posts.

[Racinready300ex]

Yeah, I missed that post. I guess some guns just can't run them. Sucks, but at least it only costs you $100/year.

 

When I switched from MG's to coated that saved me $120 per case. So ever two cases I saved enough for a 3rd case of bullets. That meant a lot more practice per year for the same money, which helped me improve a lot.

[iflyskyhigh]

 

Yes, see all my above posts.

That's the great thing about JHP. You don't have to do 6 years worth of science experiments to get them to work. Just load em up. Make sure they function/feed. And chances are they are going to work pretty damn good with very little futzing.

 

 

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[JohnnyD]

1 minute ago, 57K said:

 

Cool, now we're getting somewhere! TiteGroup burns hot enough that it can melt the polycoating and then the lead exposed from that. I would go to a cooler burning powder rather than give up on polycoated.

 

And an FYI for everyone. Alliant announced at the 2017 Shot Show that they have a new powder called Sport Pistol. It's spherical rather than flake which means that St Marks is making it for them. Faster burning than W231 according to the data I have, but the reason it was created was for lower burn temps and specifically for polycoated. Should be on shelves very soon if not already!

 

Interesting...when I burn up my 16lbs of Titegroup I'll check it out...should take a couple of years

 

But yes I know TG wasn't helping the situation, but like I said I still got it running Unique.  I only have a couple of pistols that see any volume and they both are XD's so I'm kinda stuck there.  My Kahr CM9 leads but only a little bit, I can hit it with a brass brush after 50-100 rounds and it's clean in a pass or two.

[IGOTGLOCKED]

1 minute ago, JohnnyD said:

 

Interesting...when I burn up my 16lbs of Titegroup I'll check it out...should take a couple of years

 

But yes I know TG wasn't helping the situation, but like I said I still got it running Unique.  I only have a couple of pistols that see any volume and they both are XD's so I'm kinda stuck there.  My Kahr CM9 leads but only a little bit, I can hit it with a brass brush after 50-100 rounds and it's clean in a pass or two.

This has been a very interesting string, thanks to the OP! I recently switched from plated to coated myself and couldn't be more pleased. I'm loading 9 with 145 gr Acme (hi tech coated if that is different from poly) over 3.3 gr of TG @ 132\3 PF and are more accurate than the X-treme plated 147's I was shooting and at a much lesser cost. I have shot about 3k of the Acme 145 gr, no issues from my G19 & a G43. I might look for something a little cleaner shooting when I finish the boat load of TG I have however still very pleased...

 

Cheers form IGG!

[Shmella]

I have run 1000 rds at major pf through my new open gun all blue bullets 125 gr at 1350-1400fps. No leading that I can see so far. There is a small amount of carbon I believe but not nearly as gunked up as you would believe if you read all the posts on here saying not to do it. I haven't been scared off of continuing to use the blues yet. Not sure if you can see much from this picture but there ain't much in there. 

[IGOTGLOCKED]

On 3/9/2017 at 6:21 PM, 9x45 said:

sanders, when I said FMJs I meant the ones without the exposed lead butt(completely jacketed), of course that would make a mess in a comp, Plus the JHP has a higher ballistic co-efficient, therefore making it more accurate. I get my coated bullets from a local source, delivered to the match, for $57 per thousand versus $135 per thousand for MGs. I have tried Deltas, they are, in my experience, as good as MGs, at a much better price point.

How many do you have to by to do so @ $57/k..?

[Dr. Phil]

Jacketed are slower (same charge wt.) plated are faster, cheaper (getting to be similar in cost nowadays), same accuracy once the load is worked up. (Steel challenge and falling steel. Don't need 2" @ 50, but, they will shoot 4 -5 " @ 50)  Coated are cheaper, better velocity easy to load (after load workup and die adjustment) and clean shooting. Bought tons of Bayou. Great bullets. Now, a friend who shoots with me is making coated bullets. I get the family discount. $50/1000! Guess what I shoot?

BTW. He makes my special color...  Pink!

[jnr88]

I find coated are great for a minor load. Clean and accurate. For Major power I use JHP. They are more accurate in both of my guns.

[Got2beshooting]

For 9 minor I prefer coated bullets. The #1 reason why is cost. They are significantly cheaper than plated and fmj. But I have found out that coated Bullets in an open gun do not work well. The high velocity, from what I have seen, cause the Bullets to tumble.


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[cj36d]

Watch out for curling/scraping of coating when seating coated bullets.  Tried a few myself, and had some issues with this...the big problem becomes that a small amount of curled coating on the lip of the case will prevent the gun from going to battery since the case seats on the lip in the chamber by design.

 

Played with a bunch of potential fixes (belling case mouth more, case lube, etc...), until I discovered that a large volume of my brass had some minor distortion on the case mouth from tumbling with steel shot, which was causing the problem. Said screw it and went back to Montana golds.  

 

Jacketed...more expensive but it works.

[jeffroberdo]

Awesome reading on this thread. I have shot almost exclusively coated (BBI, Blue, Bayou and SNS). None have given me true acceptable accuracy.  I have tried a few Plated from RMR and XTreme. 

The Plated have never given me an appreciable benefit over Coated to justify the extra cost.

Now, To My question/comment. Even though everyone is saying "Acceptable For Our Game" accuracy is good enough and i am okay with that but.

I want my gun to shot as accurate as it can. (Glock34, Wilson Barrel).

I want to try some FMJ bullets now after reading all this.

What brand does everyone recommend within a reasonable cost? Sounds like MG's are a bit pricey.

Right now my "Go To" Load is 4.1gr of HP-38 under a 125gr Blue Bullet RN.

I do not have a crono but these should be right around 1050fps for about 130pf.

 

P.S. For some of the posters that will probably be reading this. I stopped using TightGroup because of smoke and leading issues. W231/HP-38 is great.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Precision Delta (PD) - looks like a good buy -  You might stay with the coated for practice

and use the JHP's or FMJ's for matches.

 

If you don't have a chrono, you really don't know whether you are around 130 PF -  if you

hit a chrono station, you might be surprised.   Come to think of it, you might be way over

PF 130, unnecessarily.

 

I wouldn't play this game without a chrono ....     

[iflyskyhigh]

Awesome reading on this thread. I have shot almost exclusively coated (BBI, Blue, Bayou and SNS). None have given me true acceptable accuracy.  I have tried a few Plated from RMR and XTreme. 
The Plated have never given me an appreciable benefit over Coated to justify the extra cost.
Now, To My question/comment. Even though everyone is saying "Acceptable For Our Game" accuracy is good enough and i am okay with that but.
I want my gun to shot as accurate as it can. (Glock34, Wilson Barrel).
I want to try some FMJ bullets now after reading all this.
What brand does everyone recommend within a reasonable cost? Sounds like MG's are a bit pricey.
Right now my "Go To" Load is 4.1gr of HP-38 under a 125gr Blue Bullet RN.
I do not have a crono but these should be right around 1050fps for about 130pf.
 
P.S. For some of the posters that will probably be reading this. I stopped using TightGroup because of smoke and leading issues. W231/HP-38 is great.

Precision Delta. All the way. No affiliation. Just really like their stuff for performance and value. If you buy at least 2000 they pretty much cost the same as plated and just a few cents more per bullet than coated. For a few cents more, at least in the .355/.356 arena you can get JHP's, which to me is the best bang for the buck (pun intended).

When I started reloading I used exclusively lead. Just too damn messy! Then I tried plated. Much cleaner, but more expensive and not nearly as accurate overall as lead (lead seem to me to be the accurate bullets I have used this far, but not worth the mess). Then I tried coated. They're accurate and cleaner than plain lead, but still messy, and not that much cheaper than played. I finally decided that with the volume I shoot JHP/FMJ was the way to for 90% of my shooting. The only areas I still us something different are for 9MM subsonic, I use plated, because 147gr FMJ's or JHP's seem to be WAY more than the plated and I get good accuracy in subsonic ammo with the plated. All other 9MM loading get JHP. All .380 loading get JHP. In .45 Auto and .40/10MM for whatever reason the JHP's for those bullets is way more expensive than the FMJ's so I stick with FMJ's.

I've spent hours price shopping so I'll save you the time. For pretty much every thing JHP/FMJ PD is the cheapest (and best) as long as you order at least 2000. The only exception I could find was .95gr JHP's were cheaper by the case when ordered from Montana Gold (also great bullets, just typically more expensive. For quality plated bullets Rocky Mountain Reloading is the go too. RMR also has the best price on 180gr FMJ's. PD has the best price on 165gr FMJ's.


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