Geissele Super 3 Gun Trigger doubling

[jdknotts1]

I put a Geissele Super 3 Gun trigger in my carbine. I've been doing some load development for the upcoming season. I started out using Federal 205M primers. During range time, every now and again I would get a "double". I atributed it to the soft primers everyone says you shouldn't use in a ar15/variant. So I ended up buying WSR, Rem 6 1/2, and CCI 400 primers and started over. Shooting at 300yds today I got at least 3 doubles out of 60 rounds shot. WTH?????

Once I pull the trigger all the way to the rear, I hold it all the way back for a brief moment, then let the trigger out until I feel the reset. Any particular way I should be working this trigger? This doubling will be nice during the hoser targets, but not so much when I need a precision shot at a skinny sammy with a limited shot count. It's quite irritating. If anyone has any advice I would love to hear it. I like the smooth pull of the trigger but hate the fear of doubling at the wrong moment.

Thanks

[whistlepig]

Call em. I imagine that they will make it right.

[jdknotts1]

Just sent them an email. Just curious if this is a mechanical or user issue.

Anyone ever have this problem with one of these triggers?

[ckell101]

This happened when I had Bill Springfield work on my trigger on my Long Range AR. I was not a happy camper and didn't want the Illinois Gun Patrol calling in the troops. I found that the "legs" on my hammer spring had been placed on top of the trigger pin and was putting too much tension on the hammer during reset . I simply slid the spring "legs" under the trigger pin and WABLAM!!! no more unintentional double taps. This was no fault of Bill, it was mine on the reinstall.

Edited January 18, 2012 by ckell101

[highxj]

The hammer spring legs are *supposed* to be on top of the trigger pin ckell101. One leg fits into a groove on the trigger pin to keep it in place.

[Religious Shooter]

I was group shooting from the bench working up loads on my .260 when it doubled on me. I was using free recoil at the time. Or it could have been the Wolf primers that were a tad tall (didn't seat flush).

After the double I held the rifle tight and didn't have anymore doubles.

[sparks1]

Not sure if this pertains...

Have had the same with my Jewell on the AR. Doing the same as you >> squeeze, hold the trigger to the rear, slowly reset, fire next shot. What my trouble was, the trigger was set toooo light and recoil would bounce the trigger finger causing another shot. I have increased the pull weight and no more doubles.

Must admit it was troubling...in light of prosecutions for this and the class 3 weapon distinction.

[ckell101]

Highxj - I stand corrected. Either way running the legs under the pin worked and eliminated the doubles. Thank you for the education, I appreciate it.

[ckell101]

Highxj - I stand corrected. Either way running the legs under the pin worked and eliminated the doubles. Thank you for the education, I appreciate it.

[jdknotts1]

Must admit it was troubling...in light of prosecutions for this and the class 3 weapon distinction.

A buddy of mine said the same thing earlier today. Can't see how its a class III problem. Technically it is another pull of the trigger. Unless of course this is a mechanical issue. Which would be no fault of mine.

[Mark Gale]

If your rifle is race gun, doubling is usually an action spring issue. What action spring are you using? An extra power action spring coupled with to light a buffer can induce doubling.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Mark Gale

[Nuke8401]

Did you do the trigger reset check per the instructions?

9. Check trigger reset: Set safety selector to FIRE. Dry fire weapon

and keep trigger held back. Pull charging handle all the way back

and release, letting the bolt carrier snap forward. The hammer

should not fall. Release trigger. Hammer should be caught by

the trigger.

If your gun passes this test I would guess you are bump firing/not holding the trigger to the rear during recoil.

Did you adjust the pre-travel? If you have a set screw installed under the grip screw to adjust pre-travel it may be taking too much pre-travel out of the trigger.

Some have had doubling problems when using lighter springs than the ones provided with the trigger.

David E.

[Alaskapopo]

I put a Geissele Super 3 Gun trigger in my carbine. I've been doing some load development for the upcoming season. I started out using Federal 205M primers. During range time, every now and again I would get a "double". I atributed it to the soft primers everyone says you shouldn't use in a ar15/variant. So I ended up buying WSR, Rem 6 1/2, and CCI 400 primers and started over. Shooting at 300yds today I got at least 3 doubles out of 60 rounds shot. WTH?????

Once I pull the trigger all the way to the rear, I hold it all the way back for a brief moment, then let the trigger out until I feel the reset. Any particular way I should be working this trigger? This doubling will be nice during the hoser targets, but not so much when I need a precision shot at a skinny sammy with a limited shot count. It's quite irritating. If anyone has any advice I would love to hear it. I like the smooth pull of the trigger but hate the fear of doubling at the wrong moment.

Thanks

Geissele triggers are the best I have used and I am sure they will make it right. Call them up and get it fixed. A doubling gun is an unsafe gun.

Pat

[raz-0]

I'm going to suggest operator error if it passes the disconnector test. If youw ant to be doubly sure, look at the engagement with the disconnector with the upper off the gun. The only way for it to be intermittent is for that engagement to be marginal, and if that is the case, the problem should become more frequent over time as marginal engagement should wear what little surface is engaging faster.

As a reference point, I have a super dynamic 3 gun trigger, and it doesn't double, and it passes the disconnector test. However it is a very easy trigger to bump fire due to a very positive reset (not in the whoops that was an accident sense, but when tryign to deliberately bump fire the gun for grins).

When I was trigger shopping for an ar-10 trigger many years ago, I saw basically this exact same thread on another forum except the shooter absolutely insisted that their technique was sound and was nasty about it to everyone who owned said trigger and didn't have the problem. So he bought the a new trigger. The good expensive one and not that POS he was complaining about, and everyone trying to help him could shove it. Then apparently THAT trigger had the same problem. So it became that all ar-15 triggers had issues in an AR-10. So he bought the REALLY expensive trigger designed for an ar-10. It too magically had the same problem.

The guy never had ar-15 problems because he was holding the gun tight enough for ar-15s, but not tight enough for .308 recoil, especially when prone or off a bench. HE eventually ate crow when he accepted a challenge by someoen local to him to let them try and reproduce it.

My suggestion is to get your shoulder behind it more solidly, especially if prone or at a bench, and either ride the rest like a striker fired pistol, or if you must hold it back like you do, do so with some authority. It's not a bolt gun.

[twodownzero]

Which would be no fault of mine.

Recent cases suggest that "fault" is not an element of the offense.

[gose]

Which would be no fault of mine.

Recent cases suggest that "fault" is not an element of the offense.

I assume youre referring to the Olofson case, which is the only one I know of...

Unless he also modifies the bolt, makes the selector switch go to the third position and then tries to sell it as a machine gun, he should be fine.

Olofson's gun was a malfunctioning machinegun, not a malfunctioning semi-auto.

Edited January 18, 2012 by gose

[jdknotts1]

Did you do the trigger reset check per the instructions?

9. Check trigger reset: Set safety selector to FIRE. Dry fire weapon

and keep trigger held back. Pull charging handle all the way back

and release, letting the bolt carrier snap forward. The hammer

should not fall. Release trigger. Hammer should be caught by

the trigger.

If your gun passes this test I would guess you are bump firing/not holding the trigger to the rear during recoil.

Did you adjust the pre-travel? If you have a set screw installed under the grip screw to adjust pre-travel it may be taking too much pre-travel out of the trigger.

Some have had doubling problems when using lighter springs than the ones provided with the trigger.

David E.

Passed the function test. From the begining I figured it was my problem. Geissele said they will replace the current springs with stiffer ones to fix the problem. I am debating whether or not I should just continue to work with the trigger and get used to it. Stiffer springs mean heavier trigger. In that case I should just sell it and go back to milspec.

Also, can't adjust the pretravel. Can't adjust anything on the trigger.

Edited January 18, 2012 by jdknotts1

[Outsydlooknin75]

Did you do the trigger reset check per the instructions?

9. Check trigger reset: Set safety selector to FIRE. Dry fire weapon

and keep trigger held back. Pull charging handle all the way back

and release, letting the bolt carrier snap forward. The hammer

should not fall. Release trigger. Hammer should be caught by

the trigger.

If your gun passes this test I would guess you are bump firing/not holding the trigger to the rear during recoil.

Did you adjust the pre-travel? If you have a set screw installed under the grip screw to adjust pre-travel it may be taking too much pre-travel out of the trigger.

Some have had doubling problems when using lighter springs than the ones provided with the trigger.

David E.

Passed the function test. From the begining I figured it was my problem. Geissele said they will replace the current springs with stiffer ones to fix the problem. I am debating whether or not I should just continue to work with the trigger and get used to it. Stiffer springs mean heavier trigger. In that case I should just sell it and go back to milspec.

Also, can't adjust the pretravel. Can't adjust anything on the trigger.

You can take some of the pre travel out with a set screw in the grip threads to not allow the trigger to come down quite as far, hence removing pretravel.

Sent from my PG06100 using Tapatalk

[Mbauer67]

I had this same exact problem when I switched to this super 3-gun trigger, but it was when I was trying to sight in my rifle on a bench and I was trying to get really perfect trigger pulls.

After talking to the guys at giessele they said it was doubling because the recoil of the gun was causing your finger to trip the trigger a second time especially when shooting from a bench. One thing they suggested to visualize was to pull the trigger through its travel when firing.

After about 100 rounds I have never had the problem since, it just took a little getting used to and I still love the trigger.

[J-Rob]

Any chance you can post a video of it doubling?

[jdknotts1]

I had this same exact problem when I switched to this super 3-gun trigger, but it was when I was trying to sight in my rifle on a bench and I was trying to get really perfect trigger pulls.

After talking to the guys at giessele they said it was doubling because the recoil of the gun was causing your finger to trip the trigger a second time especially when shooting from a bench. One thing they suggested to visualize was to pull the trigger through its travel when firing.

After about 100 rounds I have never had the problem since, it just took a little getting used to and I still love the trigger.

Thats exactly when it is happening. Giessele said they will replace the springs to make it heavier. I'm thinking I'm going to go your route and just practice with it. If I can replicate the doubling on the hoser targets my splits will be money.

[9X23Guy]

JD, listen man. If you go back to a mispec you could have the same problems as you do now. Same thing if you put heavier springs in the Geissele. First off, have or a get a good gunsmith you trust. They would rather have you hit them up with a lot of questions than go back and fix your dremel master piece. Let him take a look at it, if says it's good to go then don't worry about it. You probably learned to shoot in the military like I did where we are taught about good follow through and holding the trigger back then listen for the audible "click" when it resets. I have doubled a milspec 6-7lbs trigger and I have doubled a Geissele DMR at sub 3lbs. Both triggers were mechanically sound. I was never one to "slap" a trigger. I always tried to let out the trigger just enough to reset and then break the next shot. This aids in trigger control but when you're really up on the trigger you can have the gun bump fire from the recoil even if you're holding it tight. Also, the last thing you want to do is intentionally try to make your gun double. It's unsafe and inaccurate. With enough pratice you can get those splits down. I can run 0.16 - 0.17 splits with my rifle and stay on target on a hoser stage and I see my sights and put the round where it's supposed to go with every shot. I've never really tried to see just how fast I could run the trigger because nobody cares how fast you can miss. I'm not the rifle master either, I've seen videos of Jerry running about 0.10 splits on target up close. You can train your way out of this. Start with controlled pairs slowly and work your way up as you get more comfortable paying close attention to trigger control. I'm not a devout Larry Vickers fan but he's absolutely right in saying "speed is fine, accuracy is final".

[Nuke8401]

So I have the super 3-gun trigger with the supplied springs, went to the range the other day. I could not make it double no matter what I did, loose trigger finger, firm trigger finger to the rear and let off, tight to the shoulder, off the shoulder. I have it installed in a Stag lower with an allen screw under the grip screw to remove a significant amount of pretravel. The LPK was from DPMS. Prior to the SG3 trigger I had the DPMS LPK with JP Yellow springs, light work on the sear surfaces, cut hamer and pre-travel adjustment. I was surprised how strong the SG3 springs were compared to the JP yellow springs. I was tempted to install the JP springs but read they could cause doubling. My SG3 is plenty light even with the supplied springs.

Just a point of reference for you.

David E.

[jdknotts1]

JD, listen man. If you go back to a mispec you could have the same problems as you do now. Same thing if you put heavier springs in the Geissele. First off, have or a get a good gunsmith you trust. They would rather have you hit them up with a lot of questions than go back and fix your dremel master piece. Let him take a look at it, if says it's good to go then don't worry about it. You probably learned to shoot in the military like I did where we are taught about good follow through and holding the trigger back then listen for the audible "click" when it resets. I have doubled a milspec 6-7lbs trigger and I have doubled a Geissele DMR at sub 3lbs. Both triggers were mechanically sound. I was never one to "slap" a trigger. I always tried to let out the trigger just enough to reset and then break the next shot. This aids in trigger control but when you're really up on the trigger you can have the gun bump fire from the recoil even if you're holding it tight. Also, the last thing you want to do is intentionally try to make your gun double. It's unsafe and inaccurate. With enough pratice you can get those splits down. I can run 0.16 - 0.17 splits with my rifle and stay on target on a hoser stage and I see my sights and put the round where it's supposed to go with every shot. I've never really tried to see just how fast I could run the trigger because nobody cares how fast you can miss. I'm not the rifle master either, I've seen videos of Jerry running about 0.10 splits on target up close. You can train your way out of this. Start with controlled pairs slowly and work your way up as you get more comfortable paying close attention to trigger control. I'm not a devout Larry Vickers fan but he's absolutely right in saying "speed is fine, accuracy is final".

I installed the trigger per instructions and did no modifications whatsoever. I am convinced I am bump firing it because, like you said, I was taught in the military. And I do hold back the trigger and slowly let it out and wait for the "click". Over the next couple days I will be shooting about 1k rounds through the rifle. I will work on my technique and see where I go from there. I would like to kkep it the way it is and work through it.

[ausshooter]

I had this same exact problem when I switched to this super 3-gun trigger, but it was when I was trying to sight in my rifle on a bench and I was trying to get really perfect trigger pulls.

After talking to the guys at giessele they said it was doubling because the recoil of the gun was causing your finger to trip the trigger a second time especially when shooting from a bench. One thing they suggested to visualize was to pull the trigger through its travel when firing.

After about 100 rounds I have never had the problem since, it just took a little getting used to and I still love the trigger.

Thats exactly when it is happening. Giessele said they will replace the springs to make it heavier. I'm thinking I'm going to go your route and just practice with it. If I can replicate the doubling on the hoser targets my splits will be money.

Just FYI I am having the exact same problems with that trigger. Geissle has been working with me on it, and they are telling me the same thing they told you. I actually had the rifle 'dq'd' from a match because of it doubling, in the exact same scenario you are getting into.

I'm not quite sure what to do. Usually it's on long distance targets where I'm going for accuracy. Close up targets I can hose all day long and no issues. When I slow down and work the reset is when it gets squirrely.

You are not alone ... and it's frustrating!

A

PS - several times during a match I'd have the hammer follow and I'd have to tap-rack to get the gun up again. Usually shortly after that the gun would double too. I thought it was a faulty trigger, but after sending it back to Geissle they said all parts were in spec and offered up a disconnector that had more engagement surface.

Moral of the story - they have gone way above and beyond working with me on the problem. They are a great company!

Edited January 23, 2012 by ausshooter