Airline Baggage Theft....

[BlackBuzzard]

Here's an article from the WSJ.

If I ever do fly with higher dollar gun(s) in checked baggage, I'll first get a seperate rider or policy. Its obvious there will be nothing done for me by the offending airline. The risk of lose seems quite high these days. And if items vanish, its just too bad per airline policy and practice.

Based on non match related travel that I have done, I can count on the airlines delaying (never lost yet) my baggage arrival 20% of the time....sometimes for days!

Some bits from the article .......

"contract of carriage"—exclude liability for any valuables in luggage, such as computers, cameras, electronic equipment, jewelry, business documents, artwork or similar valuable items

Delta offered her a $100 voucher toward a future ticket.....for lost items

A total of 330 TSA officers have been fired for theft since the agency's inception

Baggage theft reports are up nearly 50% this year, according to airport spokesman Steve Johnson....... Portland airport

BB

[Chills1994]

Just one of the many reasons I will never fly with a gun(s).

And, yeah, I already did the google maps thing. It will take 24 hours to drive from St. Louis to Las Vegas for next year's Nat's...if I am so inclined.

[Jman]

http://citrusdaily.com/az-couple-indicted-...1/20/17129.html

Over 1000 pieces of luggage was stolen by just these two meth heads in Phoenix. Included in their haul were firearms.

Pretty much asking to get ripped off if you fly commercial with guns. Bad BAD odds.

Jim

[ROY NEAL]

That is why you have shooters such as myself who work in the insurance industry. We make sure that your valuable blasters are covered as scheduled items under your property section of your homeowners or renters policy. (It is the same as the SO diamond ring for example). And the best part is that it is very inexpensive to do.......everyone's will vary a bit but should be under $50 a year per high end firearm scheduled. By high end, I am using one of my SV SightTrackers you have seen in Front Site Magazine articles (metal grip kit, the whole nine yards)as the example that would retail for $4K.........premium on it for the year is $42 and I travel a lot by air including internationally. No deductible on this. I had one of my sight trackers stolen by a new employee at the shipping company a few years back when I was shipping it back to the factory for some work. Between's Brandon's constant phone calls and one our of shooting friends in the local FBI, the gun "showed up " in a depot nearby in an opened package so we got it back. In the mean time, I had the insurance company check in my hands in 3 business days after filing the claim and submitting a police report with the claim. I truly love the pieces that SV has built for me but my attitude is that they are insured and with the $$ from the insurance carrier, Brandon can build me another one. My shooting group normally travels a lot together so it is not uncommon for 3-4 of us to travel to a match with typically 2 SV's apiece in our range bags. Can you imagine the retail value of our gear if our vehicle was stolen while we eat after the match with 8 limited/open guns plus all the other gear such as mags? I could and did. All of my crew carry's this type of insurance on thier gear. Besides carrying a favorite Roscoe on you, it is the best feeling of security you can have when it comes to travel and your gear. Your local insurance agent should be able to help you with this process. The NRA has a seperate policy for this as well that is reasonably priced if you don't want to get your personal insurance agent involved but thier program might not be an generous as your personal carrier's policy. Best advice is to look for an agent that is a shooter if you can find one. Shooters understand and trust other shooters.

Regards,

Roy

[Chills1994]

^^^ Insurance is nice and all...but how is XYZ Insurance Agent gonna get me some replacement high zoot $3,000 blaster chambered in .600 Nitro Express by the time the Big Match starts.

No gun = no match

No match = FUBAR'ed vacation time

FUBAR'ed vacation time + travel expenses + lodging + meals + missed work + once in a lifetime opportunity to shoot a Nationals level event = __________________

[Jadeslade]

That is why you have shooters such as myself who work in the insurance industry. We make sure that your valuable blasters are covered as scheduled items under your property section of your homeowners or renters policy. (It is the same as the SO diamond ring for example). And the best part is that it is very inexpensive to do.......everyone's will vary a bit but should be under $50 a year per high end firearm scheduled. By high end, I am using one of my SV SightTrackers you have seen in Front Site Magazine articles (metal grip kit, the whole nine yards)as the example that would retail for $4K.........premium on it for the year is $42 and I travel a lot by air including internationally. No deductible on this. I had one of my sight trackers stolen by a new employee at the shipping company a few years back when I was shipping it back to the factory for some work. Between's Brandon's constant phone calls and one our of shooting friends in the local FBI, the gun "showed up " in a depot nearby in an opened package so we got it back. In the mean time, I had the insurance company check in my hands in 3 business days after filing the claim and submitting a police report with the claim. I truly love the pieces that SV has built for me but my attitude is that they are insured and with the $$ from the insurance carrier, Brandon can build me another one. My shooting group normally travels a lot together so it is not uncommon for 3-4 of us to travel to a match with typically 2 SV's apiece in our range bags. Can you imagine the retail value of our gear if our vehicle was stolen while we eat after the match with 8 limited/open guns plus all the other gear such as mags? I could and did. All of my crew carry's this type of insurance on thier gear. Besides carrying a favorite Roscoe on you, it is the best feeling of security you can have when it comes to travel and your gear. Your local insurance agent should be able to help you with this process. The NRA has a seperate policy for this as well that is reasonably priced if you don't want to get your personal insurance agent involved but thier program might not be an generous as your personal carrier's policy. Best advice is to look for an agent that is a shooter if you can find one. Shooters understand and trust other shooters.

Regards,

Roy

Thanks for posting this Roy. I really didn't know about this. I have traveled with guitars for years and it's kind of the same. SOL if it's broken. I used to be able to buy a seat for a guitar-no longer.

[want2race]

I have a floater on my homeowners for my guns. This was before my policy upped the standard gun coverage to 10k, before it was 2k. Didn't even cover one pistol. I left the guns on the floater since I can claim (pay for) whatever the replacement value is.

[itchy]

I know this doesn't help if the entire bag disappears, but recently, I've been locking the gun cases into my luggage. At least this will prevent someone from grabbing one case out of my luggage. I also try to use normal looking luggage, and not the nice Pelican hard cases.

I think it's time to look into insurance.

Seiichi

[Chills1994]

Just curious...how does the value for any one particular gun get to be set?

Is it done by the homeowner/policy owner?

The insurance company?

An "independent" third party appraisal service?

And does the insurance company need to have the descriptions and the serial numbers of guns on file beforehand?

[-JQ-]

I'm flying with a gun for the first time in years...to Phoenix

This is for the holiday, so no matches planned...but sure hope I'm not out my CCW while there.

I'd better call USAA to make sure all's well before I get going.

Thanks for the post.

Jade...I just read the Delta does allow you to buy the adjacent seat for large items...didn't say guitars - just oversized.

[want2race]

Since I'm paying for the floater policy based on value, I set the price of my guns. They don't care whether it's 1000 or 10,000. I pay for the dollar amount of coverage. "What" is covered is really irrelevant to them. The more the gun costs, the higher the cost to insure it. It's still VERY cheap considering the items I have covered are one of kind and to replace them will be very expensive. They have full descriptions, serials, extra features, and of course I have pics to back it up.

USAA, if you have a homeowners policy, is 10k of gun coverage. There is a deductable though. I only have items on my floater that are over 600 in value. Items under that fall into the standard policy.

[Chris Keen]

I too have all my guns covered on a "floater". Actually my ins. company calls it a rider, but whatever .... They have all pertinent details & pics of the guns in their files. I dont even have to pay a deductible to cover a loss, which is nice.

But all of this is moot when talking about airline luggage loss claims, as most ins. policies state that when the insured item is given to a 3rd party (airlines) for means of carriage they dont consider that theft insurable, since the item was out of your possession at the time of the theft. I still think it's better to have the ins. coverage than not, but this small fact still worries me.

[Joe4d]

I too have all my guns covered on a "floater". Actually my ins. company calls it a rider, but whatever .... They have all pertinent details & pics of the guns in their files. I dont even have to pay a deductible to cover a loss, which is nice.

But all of this is moot when talking about airline luggage loss claims, as most ins. policies state that when the insured item is given to a 3rd party (airlines) for means of carriage they dont consider that theft insurable, since the item was out of your possession at the time of the theft. I still think it's better to have the ins. coverage than not, but this small fact still worries me.

Exactly why I dont have the NRA policy,

There are a couple of clauses in the policy, one said they dont cover if left in unlocked vehicle, the other said they dont cover if the gun is voluntarily given to a third party.

I specifically asked the underwriter if the gun would be covered if lost/stolen by an airline, I got multiple "Our insurance is great" emails that never answered my question,

I finally got snotty and told the guy if he couldnt answer the actual question I asked not to bother contacting me, the reply I got was, "I said our insurance was nationwide" so basically the lack of response tells me the insurance is worthless as far as airline travel goes, Now as far as normal hom,eowner companies go I have no idea. Perhaps some one can PM me with a company. Currently I am with Allstate.

[CenTX]

Between's Brandon's constant phone calls and one our of shooting friends in the local FBI, the gun "showed up " in a depot nearby in an opened package so we got it back.

Roy

It helps if you have a LEO in the right position to influence the situation. I have a friend that is Chief Deputy with the Harris County, TX SO. He went to Africa with a Major and a Captain. When they got got off the plane in Houston, one of the rifle cases was missing. After an explaination of the facts to the airline, the rifle was "found" after a relatively short wait.

[CSEMARTIN]

Can you ship a gun to yourself? Address the package to yourself and send it to the hotel you'll be staying at with insurance of course.

[ben b.]

Can you ship a gun to yourself? Address the package to yourself and send it to the hotel you'll be staying at with insurance of course.

Legally, yes.

Good luck explaining that to a FEDEX/UPS counter drone if it's a handgun and you notify them it's a handgun, as you are legally required to do. Take the federal statutes, UPS rules, and highlight all the sections apply. I wish you well. They will NOT want to do it. That leaves you with a decision.

You can also do it with a long gun at the Post Office. My dad tried to mail a shotgun to himself at my house when he was coming to visit. Like a ninny he told them it was a shotgun. They shut him down, said that is ILL-EAGLE, and they didn't care what their own rules said. Since he is not legally required to notify the PO that he is mailing a lang gun, and it is not liquid, flammable or hazardous, he should have kept his mouth shut and not given them a chance for histrionics.

Edited December 18, 2009 by ben b.

[kevin c]

I just read the Delta does allow you to buy the adjacent seat for large items...didn't say guitars - just oversized.

I don't think any firearm is allowed in the cabin, unless you're Federal or Air Marshal. The airline got bent out of shape when I asked if I could have just my holster in my carry on.

[ben b.]

...The airline got bent out of shape when I asked if I could have just my holster in my carry on.

Lesson learned is...?

[ROY NEAL]

Chris Keen's reply got me interested to see if any of the carriers that I represent would have an issue with airlines/3rd party's taking care, custody or control of the firearms and then not paying a claim. I have it in writing from 2 of the 3 carriers we typically use for this type of coverage stating that they WILL pay the insured for this type of loss. Auto Owners and Safeco (now part of the Liberty Mutual Family) have stated that they will cover this type of loss.

As others have stated, the client sets the $$ amount of the firearm to be insured and that is what the premium is based off of. Some carriers may want an appraisal by a licensed gunsmith/gunstore on thier letterhead but that shouldn't be a big deal to get. I just did a clients Edge, Ranger II and QPC AR-15 for $67 for the remaining 9 months of his policy. Considering that we will live in the overall crime capital of the free world, (#1 in auto theft, asault, rape, battery, vandelism, home invasions and murder(percentage of people to murders committed.........and unsolved )...........)it is a different envirement than many are used to so we tend to be a little more sensitive to things getting stolen that some other area's of the country.

And you can schedule the accessory's as well such as scopes, mounts, cases and magazines. Remember when high cap mags were restricted? If they steal the average limited or open shooters bag, there will normally be 6-10 mags in the bag, electronic ear muffs of some sort and other equipment such as holsters/rigs as well. Those all have a replacement value that you shouldn't forget.

Find an agent in your area and get this taken care of right away. Hopefully, you will never have to use the coverage but if you do, it will be one of your best investments you ever made.

Best Regards,

Roy

[jasmap]

I just read the Delta does allow you to buy the adjacent seat for large items...didn't say guitars - just oversized.

I don't think any firearm is allowed in the cabin, unless you're Federal or Air Marshal. The airline got bent out of shape when I asked if I could have just my holster in my carry on.

Pretty close....Federal, AirMarshal, Captain (plane pilot) with certification, and LEO's who are transporting prisoners or those that may need their weapon a soon as they depart the plane and the non-federal LEO's need documentation. The planes Captain has the final authority and can say no to anyone. I have yet to see that happen but I am sure it's possible.

Edited December 24, 2009 by jasmap

[kevin c]

...The airline got bent out of shape when I asked if I could have just my holster in my carry on.

Lesson learned is...?

It isn't "Don't ask, Don't tell". Those scanners in the terminals would probably pick it up. That's what I was thinking and was why I asked (I was using my range bag as a carry on).

I just read the Delta does allow you to buy the adjacent seat for large items...didn't say guitars - just oversized.

I don't think any firearm is allowed in the cabin, unless you're Federal or Air Marshal. The airline got bent out of shape when I asked if I could have just my holster in my carry on.

Pretty close....Federal, AirMarshal, Captain (plane pilot) with certification, and LEO's who are transporting prisoners or those that may need their weapon a soon as they depart the plane and the non-federal LEO's need documentation. The planes Captain has the final authority and can say no to anyone. I have yet to see that happen but I am sure it's possible.

Thanks for the clarification.

Edited December 24, 2009 by kevin c

[ben b.]

...The airline got bent out of shape when I asked if I could have just my holster in my carry on.

Lesson learned is...?

It isn't "Don't ask, Don't tell". Those scanners in the terminals would probably pick it up. That's what I was thinking and was why I asked (I was using my range bag as a carry on).

I think that is exactly what the lesson is. A holster is not a hazardous or forbidden item. No point in creating opportunities for an airline stooge to start making "safety judgments" or otherwise get histrionic over it.

[kevin c]

I agree that a holster is not, or, more exactly should not, be an issue. I should have clarified that I just called the airline in advance w/ the question, trying to streamline my check-in process - I wasn't interested in having a debate with some scanner/tsa person making snap judgements or getting freaked about it. Yes, I suppose I could have stood on principle, kept my competition rig in the bag, and have been prepared to make an issue out of it. Sometimes I do, but I didn't have the time that day, and am offering up what happened for interest's sake.

Perhaps next time I'll bring a holster, giftwrapped with a bow on it, in my carry on, w/ no gun or ammo in my luggage, and see what happens. That might be fun and interesting.

[Joe4d]

So I am going somewhere bad on a chartered flight, I hand the scanner dude my M16A2 and walk through, the light beeps, I have a leatherman knife/multi tool in my back pocket, I am told I cant get on plane with the leatherman I have to check it. I stick it in a friends duffel bag who just arrived, They hand me back my rifle and tell me to have a nice flight.

[ben b.]

I agree that a holster is not, or, more exactly should not, be an issue. I should have clarified that I just called the airline in advance w/ the question, trying to streamline my check-in process -

Yes, that is different than saying to the counter person in a high, panicked voice, "Oh my Gawd,I have a gun holder thing right here in my bag, do you think that is still illegal?"

Did Maui TSA paw over your gun? Each time I have flown back from Maui, they insist on opening the case, taking it out, holding it, poking around the foam as if looking for hidden produce, and generally rubbing their snot on my stuff. Nowhere else I have flown into or from does that.