Jake Di Vita Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I love this drill. I've gotten it down pretty low in the past with the open gun, never tried it with a limited gun really. I've also never shot it from 7 yards....always from 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I've got a rather nasty bug of some kind, but I'm going to drop by the range for a quick 100. I'll shoot this a couple times and report back. I've been shooting most all my drills from 25yds for some time, so it will be good to see where I am up close. I did do some 10yd draws, hands at sides, yesterday to see where I was with them. .95-1 were the comfort zone and .74 was the lowest with an A. The batteries are dead on my ears, so I could be losing a tick there. Anyway... back in a few with the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Sorry but electronic hearing protection doesn't effect your performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Glock 21 Cheap uncle mikes Kydex holster surrender start Amoeba targets @ 7yds 6-As in 1.59 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Sorry but electronic hearing protection doesn't effect your performance. Get him Jake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsablazin Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Wth IDPA gear and CDP major loads, I'm around 2.1-2.4 average. I'm working on it! Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Jake and Others I had this theory the other day thinking about this. Is 1.25 doable. If you shoot 5 .15 splits then you have .75 seconds total there leaving .5 for draw. Now if you can get this down to .10 splits you end up with .5 leaving a .75 for the draw. I am thinking a medium ground may be found that it becomes doable. No I have not done it, but just debating it at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 My fastest time with the Open gun was 1.22. I know Manny has done a 1.26 with his Limited gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I very rarely shoot this drill but did in a match the other day. Limited gun and a Kydex belt holster. 2 runs at around 2.2 with trigger freeze on both runs. Way too tense. Not very fast I know. My draws were pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 My 10 yard Bill Drills (when I was doing them) usually ran between 1.7 and 2.0 within all iron sighted divisions except revolver. Platform didn't much matter. I have done a few in under 1.6 with my open blaster. It's amazing how many shooters below Master class have Bill Drill times and transitions that smoke me like a cheap cigar. But my skill set has churned out a lot of classifiers in the 85-100% range. Never have understood what that's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 oh, my killer that I am working on is moving into and out of position and reloads. The classifiers that have them ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) Sorry but electronic hearing protection doesn't effect your performance. I disagree, but be that as it may. First shots: I took two draws at the 10yd target. Cold in that I hadn't taken a shot. I hit the botton... The draw was 1.0 the splits were .12 with one/a couple lower and a freeze. No BS time first go 1.68 -1 Ah hell. A cold -1 kicked ass for me and it was slightly/way above my ability cold. I shot a couple more after and froze the trigger every time. 61% shooter Edited December 19, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) Dang I have a hard time getting under 2 on that one. I did it a few times in practice. One thing I know for near certain is that I have had only one 0.12 split in all of my practice ,=I hit 0.13 two or three times The only way I did that was with the targets spaced out. Edited December 19, 2007 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 possible learning points: - if your hits are spread out, you grip and stance need work...to allow you to return the gun to target. - if your hits favor a side of the target, then your index (point) is off - slow splits...could be the above, or a combination of...requiring the shooter to muscle the gun back on target. could be the grip and stance need work. - trigger freeze....trying, tension, over-gripping with the strong hand - hits that are spread high and low...timing issue. - splits that are all over the map...see all the above. - slow draw...could be lots of things...often is a lazy weak-hand, not moving in syn with the strong hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 possible learning points:- if your hits are spread out, you grip and stance need work...to allow you to return the gun to target. - if your hits favor a side of the target, then your index (point) is off - slow splits...could be the above, or a combination of...requiring the shooter to muscle the gun back on target. could be the grip and stance need work. - trigger freeze....trying, tension, over-gripping with the strong hand - hits that are spread high and low...timing issue. - splits that are all over the map...see all the above. - slow draw...could be lots of things...often is a lazy weak-hand, not moving in syn with the strong hand. Damn good info Flex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) possible learning points:- if your hits are spread out, you grip and stance need work...to allow you to return the gun to target. - if your hits favor a side of the target, then your index (point) is off - slow splits...could be the above, or a combination of...requiring the shooter to muscle the gun back on target. could be the grip and stance need work. - trigger freeze....trying, tension, over-gripping with the strong hand - hits that are spread high and low...timing issue. - splits that are all over the map...see all the above. - slow draw...could be lots of things...often is a lazy weak-hand, not moving in syn with the strong hand. Way to much tension Flex. The hits were pretty tight, but the freeze and reset took me about one inch out of the A. I didn't push the draw, but I can push it to .8 reliable, so there are a couple tenths. Also, the trigger freeze was around .34 instead of .12. If I work those out I'm looking at a comfy cold 1.38. That's not to bad for how long I've been shooting action. Edited December 19, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Sorry but electronic hearing protection doesn't effect your performance. I disagree, but be that as it may. First shots: I took two draws at the 10yd target. Cold in that I hadn't taken a shot. I hit the botton... The draw was 1.0 the splits were .12 with one/a couple lower and a freeze. No BS time first go 1.68 -1 Ah hell. A cold -1 kicked ass for me and it was slightly/way above my ability cold. I shot a couple more after and froze the trigger every time. 61% shooter COLD means without any warmup or practice draws at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) Sorry but electronic hearing protection doesn't effect your performance. I disagree, but be that as it may. First shots: I took two draws at the 10yd target. Cold in that I hadn't taken a shot. I hit the botton... The draw was 1.0 the splits were .12 with one/a couple lower and a freeze. No BS time first go 1.68 -1 Ah hell. A cold -1 kicked ass for me and it was slightly/way above my ability cold. I shot a couple more after and froze the trigger every time. 61% shooter COLD means without any warmup or practice draws at all... I take a sight picture before I shoot any stage, so for me it's cold. I did not take 25 practice draws like I do before a match. IMO A draw, sight picture/check the dot before loading does not negate a "Cold" run. Edited December 19, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 Ah hell. A cold -1 kicked ass for me and it was slightly/way above my ability cold. I shot a couple more after and froze the trigger every time.61% shooter Not to be pedantic, but...did you actually shoot any Bill Drills? I'm fascinated by these kinds of drills and understanding the difference between shooting it, maybe a couple times, and having it be a happy accident that all 6 shots are in the A, and shooting it so that there is zero doubt all 6 shots are in the A -- as if for every C, you'd get a tooth pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) Ah hell. A cold -1 kicked ass for me and it was slightly/way above my ability cold. I shot a couple more after and froze the trigger every time.61% shooter Not to be pedantic, but...did you actually shoot any Bill Drills? I'm fascinated by these kinds of drills and understanding the difference between shooting it, maybe a couple times, and having it be a happy accident that all 6 shots are in the A, and shooting it so that there is zero doubt all 6 shots are in the A -- as if for every C, you'd get a tooth pulled. Well, if we are being pedantic.... I would have to take a few steps forward as BD are 7yds and not the 10 I was shooting from. I shot three times and recorded the first one. I didn't even look at the time on the others having froze the trigger hard. I've got the flu, so I didn't hang out long. I went back and shot a few plate racks at 25yds and called it a day. What I was trying to do is shoot it as fast as I could cold and get good hits. I froze the trigger and tossed one an inch out. If I was to keep shooting it it would not have been a cold run... so it is what it is. Edited December 19, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) PS For me cold also means one run,cold. Hanging it out and ignoring C's D's and M's til I get a record or running 10 times in row is not what I am after. Not saying anybody does just that(but you can its a free country) its just what I believe is the best for long term achievement. Edited December 19, 2007 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) I think everyone would be well advised to read Flex's post about learning points. Let's not forget the Bill Drill is indeed a learning tool, skill development drill, and a diagnostic tool. Doing Bill Drills until you are ankle deep in brass doesn't do any good if the only goal is to see how fast one can go just for bragging rights. BTW, for me cold means I strap the gun on and let it rip. No draws and the only "sight picture" is if I am shooting a dot. Edited December 19, 2007 by Ron Ankeny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 (edited) I'm not sure where you’re getting this from... I haven't read where anyone is taking more than a few runs and I posted the first run. I don't run them often... I can think of other areas that help me more and don't burn up ammo at that rate. If I was to shoot it over and over until I was lucky enough to get them all in the As at warp speed it would be in the area of 1.2. What would that prove though? It might be an ego boost, but wouldn't help me in the least on a stand and deliver cold. I guess as you guys are concerned I'll never do anything cold then because I'm not going to strap on a gun and draw without at least taking a sight picture and adjusting my dot for the light conditions. The whole thing of "cold" for me means that I haven't fired a live round or made many draws dry before I make a run. I don't ever shoot a stage without a draw and sight picture, therefore I will keep my consistency and do the same in practice. If that's not what others do then so be it. Also, when I was speaking about hearing protection several people said it doesn't matter that the battery is out. You try and hear the very beginning of the beep with double plugs in and see if you pick up that sound at the same point. I know my 40+ year old ears do not hear the "start" of the beep as well... esp having it mounted on an empty mag holder on my hip. Edited December 19, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotcha Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 OK Bill Drill 10 yards.....forgot to move the target in. Open gun 1.68 Cold 1.39 Best What I noticed in this drill is you can actually become to tense and over extend your draw slowing everything down.... first shot and splits. The best was being relaxed and actually thinking the gun was too close to my face :-)....my draw first shot went to high .7's low.8's and splits were in the .11-.14 range. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotcha Posted December 19, 2007 Share Posted December 19, 2007 OK Bill Drill 10 yards.....forgot to move the target in. Open gun 1.68 Cold 1.39 Best What I noticed in this drill is you can actually become to tense and over extend your draw slowing everything down.... first shot and splits. The best was being relaxed and actually thinking the gun was too close to my face :-)....my draw first shot went to high .7's low.8's and splits were in the .11-.14 range. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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