Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

Bill Drill times


GMyers

Recommended Posts

I have been struggling horribly these last few months with some physical difficulties, so much so that I have relinquished my Master Card in all six divisions and moved down to A class across the board. I have shot two local club matches since mid Septemebr and that's the only time I have shot a handgun. By my own admission, I am not much of a shooter right now.

I can tell you that I kept very precise training records for several years and I know what the realtionship is (for me) between classifier scores on game day and practice times on various drills. FWIW, the El Pres I am describing is an 11 hit factor and I am talking about 2 second Bill Drills with any platform keeping them in the A box. Those kinds of draws, transitions, splits, and reloads will net the shooter GM scores on many "stand and deliver" classifiers in all iron sighted divisions and maybe even in Open Division. Until I went half blind, Open was always my weakest division so I'll defer to Jake on that account.

Am I saying a person needs to have a GM or M card to perform at the level being discussed? No, not at all. What I am saying is I think we can reasonably expect a GM ,or really solid high M class shooter, to perform at that level and better most of the time when they grip it and rip it and are not being conservative, as in a title is not on the line. But, while I am on a roll, let me say I have shot a lot of classifiers in the 85-100 per cent range (L, L10, Production) in the last five years when my par El Pres was closer to the mid and high fives and my Bill Drills ran around 2.3 seconds. During that time I never understood how people with shooting skill sets far superior to mine were not handing me my butt on the Mini-Mart, Bang and Clang, Front Sight, etc. :cheers:

Like we know Ron...they can do it in practice but won't risk it in a match...To me, the essence of being a GM, and I certainly am not one...is to be able to turn up the heat WHEN needed to win the match or the stage..Doing it in practice doesn't count for much other than bragging rights to lots of people you never met on the Net... :cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 360
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think shooting, is like life, many people have abilities, but few are willing to lay it on the line when it matters.

I have come across MANY very good golfers in my life, but not many can play at the pro level even tho they have the ability in practice rounds etc.... It comes down to self belief in your skills and the guts to not be afraid of failure. Fear of failure is the thing that holds back most people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never understood how people with shooting skill sets far superior to mine were not handing me my butt on the Mini-Mart, Bang and Clang, Front Sight, etc. :cheers:

That would be classifier management Ron. :o (Tell the man what he wins Bob... Sandbagging accusations, snickers and a guffaw or two :P)

Edited by JThompson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think shooting, is like life, many people have abilities, but few are willing to lay it on the line when it matters.

I have come across MANY very good golfers in my life, but not many can play at the pro level even tho they have the ability in practice rounds etc.... It comes down to self belief in your skills and the guts to not be afraid of failure. Fear of failure is the thing that holds back most people.

[/quote

Well, it cost him the US Open, but Roy McAvoy did not lack for guts nor was he hesitant about laying it on the line when it counted; and count it did...I think he put 11 or 12 balls into the water with his spoon trying to prove to himself he could make that shot...It might have been that Rene Russo was watching that messed up his Karma....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it cost him the US Open, but Roy McAvoy did not lack for guts nor was he hesitant about laying it on the line when it counted; and count it did...I think he put 11 or 12 balls into the water with his spoon trying to prove to himself he could make that shot...It might have been that Rene Russo was watching that messed up his Karma....

I'd have a hard time thinking about gold with Ms. Russo looking on too, or may be he was stuck in the er weeds with Cheech before that hole. :P

Way drift.... you see Rene in Thomas Crown? :surprise:

Edited by JThompson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I had to go and try it! I have never really timed

myself in skills, just shoot matches and practice. I

did not even own a timer until this Christmas. My

wife got me a CED7000 and with this thread going I

had to go try it.

Now this was cold, Real Cold! After work about a half

hour before dark, it was about 18F. Put on my gear,

loaded mags, strip down to a T-shirt and hears what

I got...

2.46

I going to blame the COLD for that! I stayed around

for as long as could stand it and noticed some things.

I had three draws in a row at ecxactly 1.12. Now thats

not fast but I was amazed at the bodys preprogramed

consistancy. Just an observation!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had three draws in a row at ecxactly 1.12. Now thats

not fast...

That ain't too shabby either. Cold weather isn't exactly conducive to great shooting. I see you are in SLC. There are some very good shooters in your area. If you have a chance to shoot with the likes of Matt Waki, Mark Waki, Viejo Jones, and so forth, don't feel intimidated and don't miss the opportunity. Those guys are not only top notch shooters, they are really great people. If you want to learn solid technique while having a ripping good time, shoot with Farley Collins, Brent Michaelson, Larry Aoki and the rest of the crew.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am a D class in Limited, U in Production. I took my new CED PocketPro and SP01 down to the range this afternoon after 3 weeks of not touching a pistol. I was able to turn in 2.4-2.5 every time, but I would always send off 1 flyer, usually the first shot, into the low C. If I slowed it down to get all A's, I was in the 2.9 range. Draw to first shot was around the 1.5 range which is slow as mud. I repeated the drill 24 times, and realized I do have a little natural speed available for splits, and need to cut loose at the next match and quit being so damned conservative. :ph34r:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dug this video up this evening. Even a middle aged fat guy from Podunk, Wyoming can hit one of those sub two second Bill Drills with out a bunch of fancy gear. A sub 2 second Bill Drill

Ron, I remember that video. How in the world do you pull off those splits?! I must have watched it about 50 times right now and I cannot figure out how you can manipulate the trigger that fast... In-credible!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had three draws in a row at ecxactly 1.12. Now thats

not fast...

That ain't too shabby either. Cold weather isn't exactly conducive to great shooting. I see you are in SLC. There are some very good shooters in your area. If you have a chance to shoot with the likes of Matt Waki, Mark Waki, Viejo Jones, and so forth, don't feel intimidated and don't miss the opportunity. Those guys are not only top notch shooters, they are really great people. If you want to learn solid technique while having a ripping good time, shoot with Farley Collins, Brent Michaelson, Larry Aoki and the rest of the crew.

I shoot with all of them! Farley is a blast!

They kick my butt routinely!!!!!

Edited by DIRTY CHAMBER
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dug this video up this evening. Even a middle aged fat guy from Podunk, Wyoming can hit one of those sub two second Bill Drills with out a bunch of fancy gear. A sub 2 second Bill Drill

Ron, I remember that video. How in the world do you pull off those splits?! I must have watched it about 50 times right now and I cannot figure out how you can manipulate the trigger that fast... In-credible!

Ya, those were very fast and what? a 1911 single stack?

Nice splits Ron. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

spook:

The splits are nothing more than the by product of the cure for trigger freeze. A relaxed, neutral grip, isolating the action of the trigger finger, etc. I still can't begin to give you a run with a wheel gun though. The pistol is a Les Baer PII and the holster is a Blade Tech. I really regret selling that gun. What was I thinking? <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

<_< Ok this is the ugly facts. "Cold" with a limited gun 2.12 down 3 points, most of my friends do not even know that I have a limited gun. 2.42 with a S&W M&P in 40 with full defensive loads down 1 point

1.98 & 1.96 down 1 point with an open gun after I had warmed up

This kind of drill is my week point, Sooo I was willing to try it. = I have been practicing what I am not good at and this kind of thing is my week spot

Jamie ty18956

Edited by AlamoShooter
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok, I lied a little back there... went to the range to <gasp> practice today and put the first one in 1.83 and the second at 1.69. All that draw work is starting to pay off. I still don't believe that being able to pull a 1.75 on demand is an indicator of success at the M-level though. Sure if you can, it's better than if you can't, but there's so much else to work on as well. At the GM level, you'd probably better be able to crank them out on demand.. those extra 3 match points may come in handy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I did a 1.87. Draw was .99, followed by .18,.17,.18,.18,.17, for my splits. I did 5 in a row, slowest was 2.09. The fastest was the 4th one, which I posted. I was very pleased because I couldn't recall ever doing 5 in a row and having 30 A's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Shouldnt Bill Drill's only "Count" when all of your hits are Alpha's? Who cares what your time is with Charlie or Delta hits, as that is not a valid Bill Drill run. The purpose of the drill is to shoot all Alpha's as fast as you can.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shouldnt Bill Drill's only "Count" when all of your hits are Alpha's? Who cares what your time is with Charlie or Delta hits, as that is not a valid Bill Drill run. The purpose of the drill is to shoot all Alpha's as fast as you can.

It's hard to know where the limit is unless you push the limits. Also, a c hit works just find for the large targets shooting steel matches... it's nice to know you can go a certain speed and at least hit that big piece of steel on the draw.

I don't mind seeing some Cs in there if I was able to call them when I shot them. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×
×
  • Create New...