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Bill Drill times


GMyers

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I am shooting a factory .45 single-stack, no competative enhancements at all.  Rob L. says begin BD's at 6 seconds and work faster from there.

Rob L. shoots 6 shots in 2 seconds or less (probably much less).  How fast can a GM go with a factory gun.  For my gun and caliber what should I consider a "fast" BD (assuming 0 down).  I would like to know what the top end is so I can begin setting some realistic goals.

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G-man, the top end is 1.5 to 2.0 seconds, all "A"'s.   Two seconds was considered the master level time when the drill was developed.  ( I was known as "bonebearer" back then  Basically, the drill is a 1.0 draw/first shot and five .20 second splits.  

    Six seconds is a great place to start working, because you can learn trigger control and sight awareness more easily at that pace.  Haste will only cause deterioration of the fundamentals.   After a few hundred rounds, if you continue to perform the fundamentals correctly, the seconds begin to "melt away" because of familiarity.  You start to notice things. Cool things.  Things that make you grin.  One day, farther down a road strewn with brass, there you are, doing Bill Drills as correctly at two seconds as you did them at six.  It's not a short road, but the view is beautiful, if you know what to look for.  (Oh yeah, the gun and caliber really don't matter.)  Set a first goal somewhere around 4.0 seconds after a few hundred rounds.  Don't shoot any faster than you can see everything happen!  

       Shoot well  -  Sam

(Edited by bonedaddy at 9:06 pm on Sep. 3, 2001)

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GMeyers, 2.0 is a fast Bill Drill regardless of the gun. I'm sure any number of GM and a lot of Ms can do it with a single-stack .45.

I just did a couple yesterday and still haven't hit the elusive all A in 2.0 or less. I shoot splits in the teens to make up for my slothlike draw, but one or two shots end up working their way out of the A zone. Getting all As means going to 2.15-2.25.

Don't get hung up on the Bill Drill. There are other drills which are better measurements of your shooting ability, like the El Presidente.

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The Bill drill is more about what you see in the time it takes YOU to shoot it. Don't worry about your time too much, it will improve as a byproduct of what you learn to see while doing BD's. Be aware of the sight movement, how it tracks. Is it consistant?, does it lift and stay before returning or does it dive past the start point? (when the previous shot broke)

Pay attention to what you see, let the time happen.

Pat

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Thanks Pat and everyone else.  Your comments about "what you see" really has new meaning to me after this past weekend.  I am now begining to SEE much more as I shoot.  I actually had more than one fleeting moment of calling my shot!  It was very exilerating to realize, after the fact, that that was what was happening!  A total indescribable happening.  It all was quit the experience.

Thanks BE for putting together a real "non-thinking man's" site.

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This spring I was at an IDPA match where one stage was the Bill Drill. I shot it in 2.7 seconds down 2 points with a Model 10 S&W. That is the IDPA target with an 8 inch "A-zone". The next shooter was Bill Wilson himself. He also shot it in 2.7 seconds. Of course he wasn't down any points. :)

Bill Nesbitt

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Remember you do not nessessarily need a 'perfect' sight picture. Watch the sight lift then return, fire the shot as it enters the notch. You'll have to experiment to find out what is acceptable. I see lots of shooters that return the gun then wait for a picture perfect sight alignment...see what you can get away with.

Try just blasting six into the backstop as fast as you can...see what speed you are capable of

Pat

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I went out to try some Bill drills the other day. 5 inch .45, Blade-Tech holster. I did a 2.64 & a 2.69. I had a couple others where I wasn't seeing the sight properly. I won't tell about them. Then I used my 3 inch Model 10 S&W with a Blade-Tech holster. 2.72, down 0, 2.85 down 1 & 3.08 down 0. Funny how when you watch the sights the hits get better.

Bill Nesbitt

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O.K., I have been thinking about this drill a bit.

My fast time was around 2.20 seconds.  My draw time(first shot) was just under 1.20.  My splits were 0.20 seconds.

Now, I think of this drill as an awareness drill.  It is my belief that the idea is to "see everything", or at least notice where the "seeing" breaks down.

Since my draw takes up over half my time...should i start from the low-ready position?  How about shooting more than the standard six rounds?

--------------

Now, with the above in mind, I am going to answer my own question.  I think I will continue to shoot the drill with the draw.  It will save time and ammo.  I will make sure to break out each shoot with the timer.  I will think of this as a draw/index drill and as a trigger speed drill...all the while trying to increase my awareness.

----------------

Thanks, to the forum for letting me think out loud.  Please feel free to tell me to quit thinking and start shooting now.

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Pat,

I tried the "less that perfect sight picture" Bill Drill today.  I pulled off a 3.44, 3.47 and 3.71(7 shots)... all 0's!  Slow by comparision, but I am improving!

Just as you stated earlier, when the front sight came back down into the notch, I was going again.  It worked really well.

I would assume the Bill Drill to be a type 1 vision?  What vision level do you usually have when doing these types of high speed drills?

In looking at the splits, my draw time is very slow (over 1/2 of my total time).  Are draw and dry-fire sessions best for this?

Thanks!

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Dry fire will definately help your draw, pay attention to how smoothly you move, the draw is more about efficiency of motion than pure speed...

As for vision type, I don't think you can limit yourself to one type. Open up your vision and see what is possible. I've shot them with type 1, 2, 3 and even 4 (especially on long range bill drills eg 50yds). Read the types again and see how they would apply if you tried each. In the end though its about which type you do use, not which type you'd like to use. For the most part I would say type 3 is probably the most effective as you must see the sights and their relation to the target in order to get A's, but it may look more like a type 4 where you are aware of the sights tracking throughout the recoil, lift and set. That doesn't rule out the possiblity of a type 2 where you would align the gun with the sights on the first shot then follow up by looking to the target, also using a type 1 where you shoot the entire drill focused on the scoring surface. It just depends on what you need to see to hit. Try blocking off your sights, or turning off your dot and shooting the bill drill in a true type 1. (no sights to 'cheat' with :) )

Pat

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Thanks Pat.  Plenty to think about... or maybe not; see what I need to see to hit the target.

I got to thinking about my draw.  I believe that I need to time myself drawing, firing and hitting the A and then draw and fire without concern of target.  I am beginning to think my slowdown may be in target acquisition once I have the gun in firing position.  Time to get to work on that problem.  

Thanks for your time.

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Try just drawing to the back stop...see what your times are...try bill drills into the backstop too.

I notice alot of shooters slow EVERYTHING down the more intent they are on hitting A's...where a draw would be 1.10 to just blast at the target, shooters will slow the whole draw motion down and shoot like a 1.50 when all thats needed is maybe a couple extra hundredths of a second, say a 1.15 or 1.20.... taking that extra time only for aiming and keeping the draw stroke the same speed as if it were a warp speed close target.

Pat

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  • 3 weeks later...

With my IDPA rig this goes comfortably in 2 to 2.2 no points down. With my IPSC rig I am at the 1.85 to 2.0 all A's. The times are almost the same with my Glock 35, 1911 45, or hicap 40.

You might try El pres as a practice drill. you get to practice it all. Turn, draw, speed, reload and accuracy. This has helped more than the bill drills. 6 to 6.5 sec runs at its best for me.

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First at 1.1 to 1.2 and splits in the mid teens. 1.9 to 2.0 pretty steady. I'm not Rob just your avg b class shooter. I'm concentrating on steady and comfortable pace to try and get master class for IDPA. ran some drills today with my old Safari arms 45 and got into the 2.1 to 2.3 range with ball ammo. I don't hesitate to put my glocks against limited guns. Other than capacity I don't think I give up very much.

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very impressive. One of these days you have to show me how to do it. I might get lucky once or twice to be under 2 sec, but to do it every time, on demand, I'm stuck at 2.3 -2.4. The draw is fine (0.9-1.0), but I can't reliably keep them in the A at 7 y with splits much under .2 s. And that's with a tricked-out Limited gun...

--Detlef

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Detlef,

I was stuck in the 2.3 zone for months. I started to shoot IDPA and got my draw time down when I switched back to Limited. I don't overpractice anymore. But I do a lot of dryfiring with the glock. The rick with a Glock is that you do not have to release the trigger fully to reset it.Less travel more speed.

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