ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I just made changes to my 4 inch 9mm XD. Installed a PistolGear Match Barrel, a Springer Precision 2 hole Compensator and a PistolGear Guide Rod with an 18lb recoil spring. I am shooting 147 gr Berry's RN/DS with 5.3 grs of HS6. I am getting stovepipes every 5th shot or so which makes it very difficult to compete. According to the Hornady manual this load should be a pf of 139. Some of the guys I shoot with say my load is too light. Others say that my recoil spring is too heavy. I am at a loss as how to correct my problems. I also have available 124 gr Berry's HBFP/DS and Hornady 147 gr HP/XTP, neither of which I have tried. Any help you can give this newbe is greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I shoot 147gr bullets, at 900fps (132 PF minor), in a 5" M&P. (Solo 1000) My recoil spring is 13#. If you're stove-piping, I'm guessing your over-sprung, but there are experts here, smarter than me... Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 I'm not an open shooter, but the set-up sounds contrary to what I've seen in other open guns. Lighter bullet at faster velocity to get the right pf and more gas to work the comp. Then, a much lighter recoil spring to speed the slide up and lessen the Ke from the slide moving forward into lock up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Just thumbing around the Glock section it looks like they are running 11 to 14 pound springs for Major loads in the model 17 which is a 4 1/2 in barreled gun. I'd tend to agree with Jeff and Friday that you're oversprung, especially with that light of a load. Drop the recoil spring a few pounds or up the charge and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Just thumbing around the Glock section it looks like they are running 11 to 14 pound springs for Major loads in the model 17 which is a 4 1/2 in barreled gun. I'd tend to agree with Jeff and Friday that you're oversprung, especially with that light of a load. Drop the recoil spring a few pounds or up the charge and see how it goes. I can't find a spring less than 18 lbs. I've looked at Wolff springs, etc. I even send an email to SA and they were absolutely no help. They referred me to Wolff and I had told them that I had looked there already - so much for customer service at SA. I've cut 2 coils off the 18 lb spring and still get the stovepipes. I then cut another coil off and the gun will not go into battery, so I'm still at a loss as to what to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) Curiosity question here: Would switching to a faster powder help any in this case to give the comp and the slide more to work with? I noticed the other day that pistolgear and Springer precision I think have some of the parts and possibly some suggestions on how to do what you are asking as well. Have you asked them for some assistance? Especially since you are using some of their parts too Edited October 21, 2009 by Classic_jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Cutting the 18lb spring is not going to make it lighter to any great degree. Can't tell you where to find a lighter spring but I agree that is your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 Usually Open blasters run slower powders and lighter bullets to make PF. You can use more powder if it's a slow powder to work the comp better and the lighter bullets allow even more powder. Around here it seems the 121 / 124 / 125 is the preferred bullet weight for Open 9's. I run 115's in my S_I guns over large amounts of slow powders. With an Open gun you have the weight of the comp hanging off the end of the barrel, the barrel, and slide and that weight has to be moved along with the slide for the gun to cycle. The Springer comp is steel so while I'm sure it's not real heavy, it's not light. The OP's load of 139 PF is just a bit over what some people run for Production. If the gun is stove piping it's not ejecting properly which I'm thinking will be fixed up with a hotter load to get the slide speed and cycle up. It looks like Springer sells a guide rod for the XD that allows the use of standard 1911 recoil springs, here. That would allow you to use springs down to 7 pounds or so. I'd guess they would have to be clipped to fit a 4" gun but it might be something else to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 21, 2009 Author Share Posted October 21, 2009 Usually Open blasters run slower powders and lighter bullets to make PF. You can use more powder if it's a slow powder to work the comp better and the lighter bullets allow even more powder. Around here it seems the 121 / 124 / 125 is the preferred bullet weight for Open 9's. I run 115's in my S_I guns over large amounts of slow powders.With an Open gun you have the weight of the comp hanging off the end of the barrel, the barrel, and slide and that weight has to be moved along with the slide for the gun to cycle. The Springer comp is steel so while I'm sure it's not real heavy, it's not light. The OP's load of 139 PF is just a bit over what some people run for Production. If the gun is stove piping it's not ejecting properly which I'm thinking will be fixed up with a hotter load to get the slide speed and cycle up. It looks like Springer sells a guide rod for the XD that allows the use of standard 1911 recoil springs, here. That would allow you to use springs down to 7 pounds or so. I'd guess they would have to be clipped to fit a 4" gun but it might be something else to consider. I am using the springer guide rod and the lightest spring they offer is the 18#. When I go to the wolff site the lightest they offer is the 18# How do I find a spring for a 4 inch gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
01G8R Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) Use a 1911 spring. Had to re-spring a friend's Open XD. I think we used a 14lb spring with a few coils cut off. You can get a spring pack from Brownells that has multiple springs. Brownells PN: 969-131-150 Edited October 21, 2009 by 01G8R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Wolff also sells commander length springs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Cut a 16# 1911 spring down properly to fit a solid guide rod, and use a lighter bullet would be my first 2 suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 Use a 1911 spring. Had to re-spring a friend's Open XD. I think we used a 14lb spring with a few coils cut off. You can get a spring pack from Brownells that has multiple springs.Brownells PN: 969-131-150 Thank you! I did not know about Brownells spring pack. I just ordered it. How much did you have to cut off. What loads was your friend shooting? I'm shooting 147 gr with 5.3 of HS6. I just loaded 10 rds each with 5.8 and 6.1 of HS6 which I will try on 10/22 I'm trying to stay with minor loads, but I'll go to major if I have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 I am a production guy but I must admit that it sounds like you are on the wrong track for open with your setup. That comp is just something cool to look at unless you get some more gas blowing through it. You are basically running a production load from what I can see. But I am no expert by any means. I think you should be careful trying to get alot more speed out of those 147's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Don't go below a 16# spring, going lighter will only cause problems of the slide not closing all the way. You need more powder 139pf isn't enough to operate the comp/gun effectively. XD's are not like 1911's when it comes to lighter recoil springs, if you go lighter than the firing pin spring it will over power the recoil spring and pull the slide out of battery. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calishootr Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 +1 to it sounding a lot like a production loading in what you are valling an open gun, I know XD's and Glocks are different, but the loadings are similar, for a friends G34, we are loading 147's to a similar PF you are, and had to re-spring that gun down to 13 lbs...down from Glocks original 18?? lb spring that was in it to make it reliable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted October 22, 2009 Share Posted October 22, 2009 Your XD should handle 9-Major loadings, and the comp will do you no good if its not full of gas. I'd drop down to 124, or even 115gr bullets, and jack up the PF. Otherwise, I'd ditch he comp for a standard barrel, and just shoot Production! My 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 22, 2009 Author Share Posted October 22, 2009 UPDATE on my problems I loaded up 10 rounds of Berry's 147 gr RD/DS with 5.8 gr of HS6 and 10 rounds with 6.2 of HS6. I also loaded 10 rounds of Berry's 124 gr HBFP/DS with 7.1 grs of HS6. I went to the range this morning and fired them using the stock XD mag and a MagPul mag. All shot very well and I had no stovepipes. They ejected very well. The perceived recoil was no problem and the compensator worked very well. I use one of those brass catcher nets and all cases made it into the net. When I shot the 147s with 5.3, none made it into the net. The 124s were definately a higher pf, but shot well. I also tried 4 rds, from a friend, using MG hps with 6.2 of HS6 and they shot well and made it into the net although they were not as accurate at the Berry's. As suggested, I have some additional springs on order so that I can tune the loads. So for now, looks like my problem has been solved. Thanks to all of you for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 When shooting the 9mm try shooting the lighter bullets to make the comp work. The 147s are going to move to slow and the comps will not work as good as a fast moving bullet. Scott Springer of Springer Precision worked up a XDm in 9mm and I love it so far. I only have about 1,200 rounds through it so far but his triggers are the best out there that I have tried and the new Alu comp is working very good to say the least. With all the suggestions and work that Springer has done it still is about $800 cheaper than my cheapest STI! 29 round magazines (Grams guts and Pistol gear bases for the 171.25) that are very reliable and cheaper than any S_I magazines out there is a big plus also! Hope this helps, Tell us when you get your pistol working...and how you made it work. RLTW, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 (edited) UPDATE on my problemsI loaded up 10 rounds of Berry's 147 gr RD/DS with 5.8 gr of HS6 and 10 rounds with 6.2 of HS6. I also loaded 10 rounds of Berry's 124 gr HBFP/DS with 7.1 grs of HS6. I went to the range this morning and fired them using the stock XD mag and a MagPul mag. All shot very well and I had no stovepipes. They ejected very well. The perceived recoil was no problem and the compensator worked very well. I use one of those brass catcher nets and all cases made it into the net. When I shot the 147s with 5.3, none made it into the net. The 124s were definately a higher pf, but shot well. I also tried 4 rds, from a friend, using MG hps with 6.2 of HS6 and they shot well and made it into the net although they were not as accurate at the Berry's. As suggested, I have some additional springs on order so that I can tune the loads. So for now, looks like my problem has been solved. Thanks to all of you for your help You should'nt shoot Berry's at those speeds (plated). They could start to come apart !! Major 9 loads should be worked up with an FMJ.. Edited October 26, 2009 by P.Pres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 [What loads do you suggest? I've got about 300 of the 147s and 750 of the 124s left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArizonaMileskinner Posted October 28, 2009 Author Share Posted October 28, 2009 I ordered Scott's Guide Rod with a 16# Tactical spring as Scott suggested, cut the spring shorter as Scott suggested and installed them on Monday night. I went to the range on Tuesday morning and put about 100 rds, of varying pfs thru the gun AND they ALL worked, even the 90gr loads which would not eject before. The 115s and 124s seemed to give me the best results, although the 147s shot good too. Even tried some factory PMC Bronze 115s and they shot fine also but they did not seem to eject as forcefully, but they wouldn't even eject before. Seems Scott has solved the problem. Now I have to figure out a load to shoot IPSC and Steel. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I know it's not the same, but I'm shooting MG 115 JHP 1.235 OAL in my super, with 10.2 grains of VV N105 behind it (got the load from Gman! Thanks again!), shoots really soft, good dot tracking, lots of gas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 I'm pretty sure N105 is going to be too slow for 9's. Not enough case capacity. Ramshot Silhouette, Ramshot True Blue, HS-6 (dirty IMO), Longshot, N350, 3N37, 3N38 and other powders will make Major. There's a thread HERE that will give you a headache sorting through it but there's a bunch of good load data. As always, start low and work up. I suggest Ramshot Silhouette if you can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Thanks for the update...good information and good to hear that Scott (WWW.springerprecision.com) squared your problem away so quick. He is a wealth of information on the XDs for sure. RLTW, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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