National attendees - what ya think?

[Bigpops]

I would like to get some feedback from those whom participated at the Nationals, especially the first timers...what did you think? Great experience? Was it worth the travel, expenses, etc? Was it fun?

My wife and I would like to experience it at least once so I would like to hear what you have to say.

[Nik Habicht]

I liked my first Nationals enough to repeat it three times. I've shot three of them with local pals, and one with an all-Enos squad --- both were a rockin' good time. There's something quite different about spending 3-5 days in succession on the same range, seeing the same people, shooting different stages each day, and really having that and picking a place for dinner your only major responsibilities.....

Steve Anderson back in 2004, mused to Flex and I: "How cool would it be if this went on indefinitely? If there were just 4-6 new stages to shoot for forever?" I got that sentiment --- but I think it's better that there's an end, and something to look forward to next year....

[blownhemi]

Looking from the outside in, just going off the videos I've seen, the stages looked easier and faster than last year. Not a criticism, just an observation.

Last year it looked like there were many more distance targets and more PT's. This year looked like there were quite a few close and open targets.

[Bwana Six-Gun]

I could not go this year, but I went in '07 and '08. It is definately worth the trip. You get to meet shooters from all over the country and folks you may not see again for years. You get to rub elbows with some of the top shooters in our sport and find out that they are just like you, everyday people. If you ask them, they will help you in any way they can, (just don't ask them right before they shoot or after they have blown a stage). The Nationals rock, even if you don't like the stages.

If you can, GO! You will not regret the trip. If things work out, I will be back there next year.

[G-ManBart]

I intentionally didn't read any of the other replies so as to not skew my thinking on this. It was only my second nationals and it was a very different flavor from last year (the stages). I definitely think it is worth it for anybody! You'll probably see and learn more in this one match than in tons of local matches. You'll usually have at least a couple of people who are much better than you are and you'll get to watch what they do for four days and there is a lot of learning value to that. You'll also get to shoot with people you don't know and who might have different strengths from the good shooters at your home club, so it can be pretty enlightening.

The facility this year was a little different, more austere I guess is how I would describe it....you were pretty much just out in the desert shooting between berms. Quite a bit of dust and thankfully a nice breeze to keep the temps seem reasonable, but it was next to impossible to drink enough to stay well hydrated even though they had cold bottled water on every stage (that was a huge plus).

There weren't many real field courses where you could stretch your legs (if that's your strength). There were more of what I call "shuffle stages" where you shoot a little over here, shuffle a bit and shoot some over there and then shuffle and finish at a another position. There was only one stage that was even remotely similar to a memory stage (wasn't bad at all from that perspective) and there wasn't anything really tricky. Some hard shots, a lot of easy shots that could turn into bad shots with no-shoots near by, but with enough target exposed to make you want to go fast.

In general I didn't think the stages were quite as much fun as last year (the weather kept them from really being fun last year) but they seemed fair and the best shooters are still going to rise to the top. When I compare some other matches that have really cool stages (like Area-2, the Double Tap, the High Desert Classic, etc) I found the stages to be a but underwhelming (not that I shot them that well!), but every club has a different level of props and associated supplies on hand, so that's a limitation. The actual shape/size of the berms enters into it as well....not every club is going to have a desert wash that's it's own bay like Rio Salado where you can run and gun for 30-50yds down range.

Administration wise I'd say the match staff did an outstanding job of keeping the squads moving and while we waited on the squad in front of us frequently they had a couple of things (reshoots) that seemed to bite them two of the four days so that was probably just bad luck. Anytime something needed to be fixed (like someone killing a target stick) or a popper calibration it was handled very quickly...surpisingly so. The scores were up really fast and that's a tough thing to manage all by itself.

I'd give the match staff (from the boss down to the RO's) a solid A without question. I'd give the stages a B and the facility a B+....it's austere but they made it work. I'd go back if they held it there next year. R,

[99gski]

I would like to get some feedback from those whom participated at the Nationals, especially the first timers...what did you think? Great experience? Was it worth the travel, expenses, etc? Was it fun?

My wife and I would like to experience it at least once so I would like to hear what you have to say.

I had the pleasure to meet Tammie Bordwell this week. It was her first nationals and we interviewed her for womenofuspsa.com about her nationals experience. When Sharyn Cohen gets back, if it she was able to record it, she'll be posting to the site. I'll give her a heads up about your thread.

As for competing at a Nationals, I highly recommend it! Best wishes!!!

Julie

Edited September 17, 2009 by 99gski

[Bigpops]

I would like to get some feedback from those whom participated at the Nationals, especially the first timers...what did you think? Great experience? Was it worth the travel, expenses, etc? Was it fun?

My wife and I would like to experience it at least once so I would like to hear what you have to say.

I had the pleasure to meet Tammie Bordwell this week. It was her first nationals and we interviewed her for womenofuspsa.com about her nationals experience. When Sharyn Cohen gets back, if it she was able to record it, she'll be posting to the site. I'll give her a heads up about your thread.

As for competing at a Nationals, I highly recommend it! Best wishes!!!

Julie

Julie,

My wife saw your Women of USPSA website and posted her profile. She is waiting for it to show up but understands you all were very busy. We will look for the interview.

By the way, my wife, Cindi, emailed you last year concerning your sunglasses. She was just starting out then and is now hooked! I think the Rudy's sealed the deal!

[Bigpops]

I intentionally didn't read any of the other replies so as to not skew my thinking on this. It was only my second nationals and it was a very different flavor from last year (the stages). I definitely think it is worth it for anybody! You'll probably see and learn more in this one match than in tons of local matches. You'll usually have at least a couple of people who are much better than you are and you'll get to watch what they do for four days and there is a lot of learning value to that. You'll also get to shoot with people you don't know and who might have different strengths from the good shooters at your home club, so it can be pretty enlightening.

The facility this year was a little different, more austere I guess is how I would describe it....you were pretty much just out in the desert shooting between berms. Quite a bit of dust and thankfully a nice breeze to keep the temps seem reasonable, but it was next to impossible to drink enough to stay well hydrated even though they had cold bottled water on every stage (that was a huge plus).

There weren't many real field courses where you could stretch your legs (if that's your strength). There were more of what I call "shuffle stages" where you shoot a little over here, shuffle a bit and shoot some over there and then shuffle and finish at a another position. There was only one stage that was even remotely similar to a memory stage (wasn't bad at all from that perspective) and there wasn't anything really tricky. Some hard shots, a lot of easy shots that could turn into bad shots with no-shoots near by, but with enough target exposed to make you want to go fast.

In general I didn't think the stages were quite as much fun as last year (the weather kept them from really being fun last year) but they seemed fair and the best shooters are still going to rise to the top. When I compare some other matches that have really cool stages (like Area-2, the Double Tap, the High Desert Classic, etc) I found the stages to be a but underwhelming (not that I shot them that well!), but every club has a different level of props and associated supplies on hand, so that's a limitation. The actual shape/size of the berms enters into it as well....not every club is going to have a desert wash that's it's own bay like Rio Salado where you can run and gun for 30-50yds down range.

Administration wise I'd say the match staff did an outstanding job of keeping the squads moving and while we waited on the squad in front of us frequently they had a couple of things (reshoots) that seemed to bite them two of the four days so that was probably just bad luck. Anytime something needed to be fixed (like someone killing a target stick) or a popper calibration it was handled very quickly...surpisingly so. The scores were up really fast and that's a tough thing to manage all by itself.

I'd give the match staff (from the boss down to the RO's) a solid A without question. I'd give the stages a B and the facility a B+....it's austere but they made it work. I'd go back if they held it there next year. R,

As always, thank you G-man. Great review.

[Big Guy]

I totally agree with G-Man and will give the match staff an A+. However, being my first Nationals, I was kind of disappointed as I expected the Nationals to be more of an "Event" than just traveling to Las Vegas to shoot 16 stages. For those of you that have had the opportunity to travel abroad and attend any major IPSC match, you can understand what I am talking about. The Nationals are and should be considered the pinnacle event of our sport, however, in my option they fell short of the mark.

Also, what happened to the vendors? As I recall, I saw Brazos, Millennium Customs, STI, and some other eyewear vendor. Being the Nationals, with over 400 shooters per event, I expected that more vendors would have been interested in the opportunity to present their products.

Just my two cents.

Edited September 17, 2009 by Big Guy

[slip knot]

My wife and & have been to the nationals from 92 through 2001.

Everyone that shoots should try to go to one at some time.

The stages are put together much better that your local match, painted

very well, and are chalange to any shooter.

The RO/CRO's selected are the best, so all calls should be correct.

And its a chance to see some of the best shooters in the land.

[99gski]

I would like to get some feedback from those whom participated at the Nationals, especially the first timers...what did you think? Great experience? Was it worth the travel, expenses, etc? Was it fun?

My wife and I would like to experience it at least once so I would like to hear what you have to say.

I had the pleasure to meet Tammie Bordwell this week. It was her first nationals and we interviewed her for womenofuspsa.com about her nationals experience. When Sharyn Cohen gets back, if it she was able to record it, she'll be posting to the site. I'll give her a heads up about your thread.

As for competing at a Nationals, I highly recommend it! Best wishes!!!

Julie

Julie,

My wife saw your Women of USPSA website and posted her profile. She is waiting for it to show up but understands you all were very busy. We will look for the interview.

By the way, my wife, Cindi, emailed you last year concerning your sunglasses. She was just starting out then and is now hooked! I think the Rudy's sealed the deal!

Wow... that's so neat. Please tell Cindi we will be working on profiles when we get back and thank her for being a part of our site! Thanks again!

Julie

[Chuck Anderson]

Mike Voigt talked about the range at the Membership for the 14 or so folks that showed up. When USPSA goes to a new location for Nationals it takes a bit of time to get the props up to speed. They built about 100 walls for this match that will hopefully still be there if USPSA does go back. Desert Sportsman apparently made quite a few changes to the range to suit USPSA. The bays on 12-15 are all new, Amidon said they finished grading the bays and the parking area on Thursday before the match. This was the reason for a lot of the dust in that area. I've shot several matches on this range and this was the worst for dust by far. Hopefully the little bit of rain they get will filter down the dust by next year. Most ranges get better the more National events are held at them. That is one of the reasons PASA had so many props. If we're back again next year I'm sure it will seem a bit more Nationals like.

As far as the experience I'm a big believer in going to big matches. I shoot with a lot of folks in my Section that never go to a Section or Area match. They only shoot club matches. I think shooting the big matches does a great job of improving your scores wherever you shoot. It's a lot easier to stay calm and relaxed at your club level when you've already shot with the best in the world. It's also a good way to gauge your improvement. The top dogs at a club match will change of have a bad day. When you go to Nationals, it may not always be the same person at the top, but someone there (several someones likely) shot to the absolute peak of their performance and won. If you go to two Nationals and improve 5% at the second one, that is real improvement.

If you can swing the trip, it's worth it.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: It was my first nationals and I have only been shooting 3 years. I went to the nationals to do 2 things. Not get DQ'd and not come last. I had a great time and my squad #22 were all great to shoot with. I have shot matches with harder stages but being the nationals everyone shoots the same 16 stages. I thought the hotel was great for families to go and have fun. My wife and 2 boys(10 and 6) loved that we could go bowling,swimming and just hang out. The kids area upstairs was a hit for them and gave my wife time to gamble The stage staff where some of the best I've ever had. They were very helpful and seemed pleasent when asked stupid questions by me. I did think there would be more venders etc. but can now understand why there was not. The nationals will show you where you need to improve and how you stand in your shooting. Seeing the big guns shoot is a treat as well I would suggest that you go when you are a lower ranked shooter so you can learn from the masters and grand masters. I wish I went last year when I was a "C" shooter so I could be better this year. Were are making plans for next year. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[BlakeM]

This was my first nationals and I'm in my first year of shooting (6 months in open). I viewed it as a great opportunity to learn from some of the best shooters in the world and have a great time in a cool place while doing such. I cant say anything negative about the experience as a whole and, if the opportunity presents itself, Ill be back next year.

Maybe I can climb a little higher than 5th in B class next time!

[outerlimits]

i've only shot 4 pistol and 4 3-gun nationals. i was nervous as hell at the 1st of each. way many more good shooters than a club, sectional or area match, to be sure. but you absolutely have to approach it as just that-a big club match. enjoy the experience of shooting with the best shooters in the US...one's who for the most part earned a coveted slot to what is the national championship of our sport.

if you haven't been to one yet, it should be on your bucket list...even if you have to go to barry

[Alfie]

This was my first Nationals and my second Level III match. I was terribly nervous and a shooter even commented on seeing me squeeze my gun to the point where he thought I was going to brake it on one stage. Anyway, I went by myself met a whole bunch of nice people and really, really enjoyed myself. I thought the stages were challenging, the venue was awesome and just getting a chance to see that I can keep up with the big boys was cool. I think I made some great friends and if you get the chance take it!!! No matter what it costs or how you have to pull it off do it!

[Bigpops]

Hello: It was my first nationals and I have only been shooting 3 years. I went to the nationals to do 2 things. Not get DQ'd and not come last. I had a great time and my squad #22 were all great to shoot with. I have shot matches with harder stages but being the nationals everyone shoots the same 16 stages. I thought the hotel was great for families to go and have fun. My wife and 2 boys(10 and 6) loved that we could go bowling,swimming and just hang out. The kids area upstairs was a hit for them and gave my wife time to gamble The stage staff where some of the best I've ever had. They were very helpful and seemed pleasent when asked stupid questions by me. I did think there would be more venders etc. but can now understand why there was not. The nationals will show you where you need to improve and how you stand in your shooting. Seeing the big guns shoot is a treat as well I would suggest that you go when you are a lower ranked shooter so you can learn from the masters and grand masters. I wish I went last year when I was a "C" shooter so I could be better this year. Were are making plans for next year. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

Thanks!

I take it you did not DQ or finish last...CONGRATS!

[Bigpops]

Thanks all!

Yes...it is now on the "Bucket list"!

and Blake....5th in B after one year. Dude...your on the right track!

[hopalong]

After shootin 6 nationals I've decided to skip this one (and maybe more). When I first started going there was a good many vendors and you could get stuff at a reduced "Special match price" and there was an "Atmosphere" about them. The last 2 years especially this was missing. For the price of 1 nationals I have been to Area 1 in Oregon, and Area -7 in New York...different parts of the US I had never been to and likely would not go otherwise.

I suggest going to at least 1, just to say you've been to them. Otherwise go to a couple of area matches (You'll see the same "Pros" at most of them ) Maybe Double Tap also.

Hop

[BritinUSA]

The Vendors area has been going down-hill for a long time; this is not a criticism of those vendors that attend or those that cannot afford to, Brazos and Millennium Custom are two that spring to mind that are always there.

For me, there were many good things about this match and a few that were not so good. I was a little disappointed in how the stages looked until I read Chuck's post about getting the props improved over time, so I understand that a little better now. The range was huge and there was not enough parking. Once the afternoon squads showed up each day it was gridlock with some people parking cars on the access road.

The bottled water supply was excellent, without that supply I think people would have died out there...

I walked the length/breadth of that range more times than I care to remember, taking photos and shooting the match. My shooting suffered on the last two days as I was just exhausted. But I enjoyed the photography just as much as the shooting. If the top women were all on 1-2 squads then the workload would have been reduced 80%.

I think there needs to be closer cooperation between match organisers and those wishing to cover the event. Having the best shooters in the same area makes the job significantly easier and allows for articles that can track the ups and downs of the top three much simpler. This was the case with Production where the best were on two squads. For Open it was a disaster, some contenders were spread over 5-6 different squads/schedules. I had to trek over half the range to get some shots of Yael Dagan, I tried to get some of Grace Tan, she was on the same schedule as me so I rushed to get my camera so I could get some shots while my squad was on break, but she was not on the squad she should have been on.

Hopefully Julie got some shots of her as I know she was out taking pictures when she should have been resting between schedules.

[matt2ace]

My first Nationals and it was a blast. I shot with 5 other friends from my old club in VT (GMPS) and a crew from the Border Patrol pistol team. I could not have asked for a better group of shooters to spend 4 days of running (ok , more shuffling and hopping) and gunning. I had a chance to speak with a number of the top shooters and made new friends with many others.

I agree with some comments on the look of stages, but that was incidental to the overall quality of the stages. Yes, there were only a few longer stages, but they made up for it with lots of no-shoots (got way to familiar with those) at short amd long distances. The movers varied in speed and type

which kept things interesting. Stage 2 was a killer if you timed the swingers wrong and the bobber on stage 9 looked easier than it was. Having some

experience with past A7 matches, I agree that it will only improve from here if Desert Sportsman continues to host the Nationals.

The range was a very different from any place I have ever shot before. The heat and low humidity does require a different mindset than I am used to on the east coast. I stayed hydrated and never felt the heat was too bad, even at 105F on Saturday. The view was amazing, atleast for someone who has never been in the Nevada (or any other) desert before.

Kudos the the range staff......they were the best!

Did anyone else find the constant sound of ricochettes a bit disconcerting?

[larry cazes]

Did anyone else find the constant sound of ricochettes a bit disconcerting?

We hear them constantly at one of our locals and I have never quite gotten used to them.

[XD Niner]

This was my second Nationals so I only have last year to compare it to.

Pro's

1. NO MUD! Last year the ankle deep mud and aroma of manure really dampened the thrill to say the least.

2. Open/Production Squad 22. We had a great bunch who were constantly joshing each other yet all working hard. The better shooters were all willing to share their thoughts. Several times I shot the stage differently after listening to their sage wisdom. Most of us were from Florida but we even let Aircooled Racer join us from New Mexico. He'll never the the same.

3. The RO's and match staff were terrific. It was a half day format for the competitors but the RO's and staff were out there all day each day. The staff obviously worked very hard to bring off this great match. Kudos to all of you who worked so hard so that the rest of us could enjoy ourselves.

4. The weather. The worst day weather wise was Saturday afternoon and that really wasn't all that bad. The rest of the days were cooler.

5. I don't think we had a single prop failure other than when the wind blew so hard that it blew over some poppers and even some fixed walls.

6. There were many ways to shoot several of the stages which I liked. Stage 1 was a great example. There were only six targets on this stage yet there were at least that many ways to shoot it. I noted at least five different approaches in our squad alone.

7. Ice cold water was provided on every stage. This probably saved a bunch of heat related health issues.

8. American Shooters. Thanks guys for enabling us to ship our match ammo to your store.

8. It was Vegas Baby!! There were tons of things to do after or before the match.

Con's

1. The longest shot was about 20 yards with most in the 10 to 15 yard range and many closer. There were also no Standards or strong hand/weak hand stages. The Nationals should test all our shooting skills IMHO.

2. Too many No Shoots. It seemed like No Shoots were used as a substitute for challenging distance shots.

3. Other than Bob Londrigan of Brazos, there was no vendor selling gun parts. I know that most make the vast majority of their profits off their web sales but I expected to see more at the largest USPSA event of the year. There were a half dozen major vendors at the Florida Open earlier this year.

4. The fine desert dust was blown by the strong winds got into everything. Of course, what would one expect in the desert? It sure beat ankle deep mud!

5. Chips and salsa were about it at the awards ceremony. For the fairly large match fee a few more munchies would have been appreciated.

6. The sign-in process. At all the conferences I attend they break the alphabet into two or three segments. Since the majority of the time for sign-in was spent on verifying your name, division, class, etc. and handing out the shooter packages, having three lines would have greatly reduced the wait for those at the end of the huge line at 1:00.

7. 165.8 at the chrono. Who was that idiot that loaded my match ammo with a different primer and didn't test it on his own chrono?

I'm glad I went but next year I'll probably try one of the other major matches outside the Southeast.

Edited September 18, 2009 by XD Niner

[Mistral404]

This was not my first Nationals. I have been to PASA, Tulsa and MT.

The sign up process of Open/Production was the worse I have ever seen. You would think that the National staff could have made suggestions to improve that process. One solid line forever and ever. That was very poor planning on the part of the National staff.

The awards started late. Why can't they start on time. In the business world, meetings start on time. It is really an insult not to be able to adhere to a schedule. The food pretty much -- was not very good.

The calling of names for the prize table was pretty lame. Terrible communication between the main room and prize table staff. It was nice that the folks calling names were good natured. Area 2 was way more organized in this regard.

The vendor tent is going the way of the big SUVs. Perhaps there needs to be a re-evaluation of how USPSA manages its vendors. It is way too expensive for vendors to come and set up a tent.

The range was ok. I have shot in the desert many times and it met expectations for wind and dust. No big deal here.

The stages were typical of the old fashion designers. Little itty bitty shooting areas. Three steps shoot, three steps shoot, four steps. Gee Whiz. It is like the designers are used to small berms with no real movement. I am not talking about the runners you can get at A2 or High Desert Classic but for goodness sake, use the berm! If Tulsa was subjected to poor stage layouts, they have been displaced by this years Nationals. Maybe it is time for a complete turnover of staff doing the stage designs and approvals. Bring in fresh new blood with new ideas on how to actually maximize the use of the berms.

The stages should test a shooters ability on all aspects of shooting. There should have been a standards or at least some weak or strong hand stuff.

I did not mind the no shoots so much. The target distances and arrays left a lot to be desired. What is with the ports that require you to squat somewhat. Were there three stages that most shooters had to bend their legs, not to a squat but kind of half way between a full squat and an upright stance. How is this a test of shooting?

Was there a stage with 11 DQs? Something is seriously wrong here! With the exception of that stage, the ROs did a good job.

What was with not having the Palm scoring system? Gee Whiz, we could get to at least the 1990s with regards to technology.

Ok, so I saw numerous opportunities for improvement and I know it is way easier to complain than it is to create or execute. But for goodness sake, this is not the first time Nationals has been held, the senior management of the National staff should be held accountable to improve the process rather than just let it be marginal.

All in all, it was ok, the local folks did a great job of hosting the event. There is significant room for improvement with the stuff out of the control of the local staff.

[G-ManBart]

Was there a stage with 11 DQs? Something is seriously wrong here! With the exception of that stage, the ROs did a good job.

If it was the stage I'm thinking of, it was a standard turn and draw...no idea why it would have bitten so many folks....weird.