ChrisMcCracken Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I've read the posts I could find on this. I've resigned myself to shifting the gun and feel that I do it fairly well. My question is about technique: Do you use your weak hand to pull the gun around in the strong hand to reach the mag or do you flip the gun using the strong hand only? It seems that as I release the gun with my weak (left) hand, my middle finger catches the trigger guard and gives it a little oomph to spin enough for mag release. I guess the other way would be to do it the same as if you were shooting strong hand only and needed to hit the mag release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Strong hand only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I flip the gun with strong hand only as well. I think Max Michelle shows this on the 3GM DVD quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 just flip in your strong hand..your left hand has plenty to do ..getting to the mag and back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapribek Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Just a suggestion, two of my shooting buddies who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release on the way to grabbing a mag from their belts for the mag change. Their strong hand stays planted on the grip. After seeing them use this technique for years, I'm convinced that this was a better technique than shifting the gun. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Just a suggestion, two of my shooting buddies who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release on the way to grabbing a mag from their belts for the mag change. Their strong hand stays planted on the grip. After seeing them use this technique for years, I'm convinced that this was a better technique than shifting the gun. Hope this helps. I humbly disagree. I want my weak hand getting the mag as quickly as possible. The "flip" is complete way before the mag comes into the well. To each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I flip the gun with strong hand only as well. I think Max Michelle shows this on the 3GM DVD quite well. Yes, Max does it that way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I flip the gun with my right hand while my left is going for the mag. But, I know more than one shooter with an ambidextrous mag release, either stock like on an XD or added to a 1911, that they hit with their trigger finger without shifting their grip. I'm considering this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I flip the gun with my strong hand. It's a very slight movement...and the more I practiced it the more efficient and slight the maneuver became. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 Thanks guys. I've gone over some other threads that are very comprehensive with regard to other options rather than twisting the gun. I'm happy twisting it. I just want to make sure that I'm not wasting movement with my left hand. It doesn't seem to take any longer or delay my left hand getting to the mag but instead makes the twist more consistent. I don't have to slacken up on my strong hand grip quite some much if my left is helping the turn. I need to get a look at the 3GM video mentioned above, maybe. What's being proposed here is that my left hand could leave the gun completely before I try to get the mag release around to my thumb and it shouldn't make any difference in my reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Thanks guys. I've gone over some other threads that are very comprehensive with regard to other options rather than twisting the gun. I'm happy twisting it. I just want to make sure that I'm not wasting movement with my left hand. It doesn't seem to take any longer or delay my left hand getting to the mag but instead makes the twist more consistent. I don't have to slacken up on my strong hand grip quite some much if my left is helping the turn. I need to get a look at the 3GM video mentioned above, maybe. What's being proposed here is that my left hand could leave the gun completely before I try to get the mag release around to my thumb and it shouldn't make any difference in my reload. The movement to get the mag and insert it take much longer than they flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Just a suggestion, two of my shooting buddies who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release on the way to grabbing a mag from their belts for the mag change. Their strong hand stays planted on the grip. After seeing them use this technique for years, I'm convinced that this was a better technique than shifting the gun. Hope this helps. As weird as this sounds, this is what I have been working on doing this year. I have arthritis in my trigger finger, and I found that while flipping the gun, I was not always 100% in control of my finger. I am telling you, this new technique is working out well, but it is hard to break old habbits. I have found though, it is nice to never have to adjust your grip. Once you get your perfect grip on the draw, you keep it till re-holster. Try it a few times, and see what you think. I also put a small piece of grip tape above my trigger for my trigger finger to find while the mag change is going on. As a RO, I cant begin to tell you how many people I catch changing mags with their finger in the trigger well. I think alot of the fingers find their way back in there when the flip is happening. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Short thumbs crew checking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 When I started shooting IPSC, I had a stock mag catch w/ a stock spring in a 1911. I had to put my trigger finger on the trigger guard to have enough leverage to release the magazine. This turned out to be a blessing for me. Now that I have a button on my mag catch and a soft spring in it, I still put my finger on the side of the trigger guard (directly in front of the trigger) each time I make a mag change. I didn't realize that I shifted the gun in my hand to release the mag until I put sandpaper on the front strap, then I couldn't slide the gun back into position in my hand. That is when I put the button on the mag catch, now I don't have to shift the gun to reach it. Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h2osport Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I flip the gun with my strong hand. It's a very slight movement...and the more I practiced it the more efficient and slight the maneuver became. +1 Strong hand only slight flip. The more I do it, the slighter the movement becomes. Sometimes it seems like the gun doesn't even move. I have a good friend who has used his left hand to push the mag release for years. This year he purchased an estended mag release so he could work on strong hand only mag drops. It is proving to be a hard habit to break. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Just a suggestion, two of my shooting buddies who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release on the way to grabbing a mag from their belts for the mag change. Their strong hand stays planted on the grip. After seeing them use this technique for years, I'm convinced that this was a better technique than shifting the gun. Hope this helps. I'm sure that way works, but it's gonna be slow. For a fast reload, the first thing the support hand needs to do is get moving towards the fresh mag. You have the whole time that your support hand is moving down, grabbing the mag and moving up to shift the gun and hit the button. I'm not a big fan of actively/forcefully pushing anything against the trigger guard.....cold hands, a slip, nerves, whatever and that might be the trigger your finger is pushing to shift the gun. All most folks with shorter thumbs need to do is pull the three fingers of their strong hand back from their normal position until they're on/around the middle to right side (for a righty) of the front strap. That will cause the right hand to cup and will let the thumb be close enough to hit the button...it also will push the gun slightly to the left (shift). It's easier to see than explain. Get your normal grip, pull those three fingers back and you'll find the gun almost shifts itself to where it needs to be. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slickrick Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Just a suggestion, two of my shooting buddies who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release on the way to grabbing a mag from their belts for the mag change. Their strong hand stays planted on the grip. After seeing them use this technique for years, I'm convinced that this was a better technique than shifting the gun. Hope this helps. I myself cannot do this fast enough, but there's one shooter over here who has perfected this technique, his name is Jethro "the Jet" Dionisio. 4th in open WS Bali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Just a suggestion, two of my shooting buddies who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release on the way to grabbing a mag from their belts for the mag change. Their strong hand stays planted on the grip. After seeing them use this technique for years, I'm convinced that this was a better technique than shifting the gun. Hope this helps. I myself cannot do this fast enough, but there's one shooter over here who has perfected this technique, his name is Jethro "the Jet" Dionisio. 4th in open WS Bali. DR Middlebrook teaches this in his Fist Fire self defense training, (he also teaches the strong hand flip and lets students decide) The weak hand thumb is one of those always works for all people and guns that lends itself to large classes. His rational comes from the fact that most people do not tune their guns but shoot them as built. This includes magazines. Ever notice the aftermarket around "Drop Free" mags. The second part of the weak hand mag release is sweeping the front strap and catching the floorplate of a magazine that hasnt dropped free if it is still in there on the way down to your fresh magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranDoc Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 ... who have small hands, use the thumb of their weak hand to press the mag release. Watch vids of Athena & Julie. Many women do this, and it's solely a mechanical issue. I can do the 'flip', with lots of concentration, and the muzzle is dangerously close to the 180 before my thumb hits the mag release. Using the index finger doesn't maintain the right hand grip any better. Using the left thumb to release the mag works every single time -- cold, wet, fatigue, doesn't matter. It's reliable, and the grip remains stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM262 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Strong hand flip here too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I flip the gun with strong hand only as well. I think Max Michelle shows this on the 3GM DVD quite well. I use this technique as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 (edited) I started IPSC using an HK USP,..so my trigger finger was pressing the mag release. I went to the Tanfoglio and had to re-learn to use my thumb as I did not have good luck using the mag release reversed....I know am very comfortable using my thumb for my tanfoglio's,..and after a few minutes I can now switch back to my HK P30-L and use my trigger finger. I would not recommend using your weak hand to press the mag release. Your weak hand should be reaching for your mag pouch AS you are pressing the mag release with your strong hand finger or thumb,.(unless you have extremely small hands) I wear medium size Hatch gloves BTW. SHooting production or L10 you really need to have this (easily pressing the mag release) practiced,...Limited or Open I don't see it as that important (MM on the 3GM mentions it is not that big of a deal when shooting Limited) Edited April 12, 2009 by Mo Hepworth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisMcCracken Posted April 12, 2009 Author Share Posted April 12, 2009 I'm shooting a SS 1911 for L10, so my loads are critical. I may just have to video myself doing a reload and get feedback. I also need to work on looking into the mag well. I tend to botch loads when I look and go smoother when I get it in entirely with proprioception and knowing where the mag and magwell are. I think this works fine in standing dry fire, but I suspect it will be a different story in matches and moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 I'm shooting a SS 1911 for L10, so my loads are critical. I may just have to video myself doing a reload and get feedback. I also need to work on looking into the mag well. I tend to botch loads when I look and go smoother when I get it in entirely with proprioception and knowing where the mag and magwell are. I think this works fine in standing dry fire, but I suspect it will be a different story in matches and moving. I take a metallic silver sharpie and draw a smiley face on the inside lip of the magwell that I look for during reload practice. Silly, but I've noticed myself during a match thinking "yep, saw a flash of the smiley face". On my guns with a Dawson ICE I use red, blue or black sharpie (to match the magwell color) on the plastic liner. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistral404 Posted April 12, 2009 Share Posted April 12, 2009 Bart-man, we know a guy who uses his weak hand to release the mag on his Para. He usually does very well and tanks the classifier. He recently had me do it at an Action pistol match. It is pretty interesting to see it done. Additionally, I know a left handed shooter who uses use his trigger finger to release the mag--he is a A-class shooter. He too is quite fast. So I am in favor of any technique that works. On my single stack I have notched the left grip to aid in getting to the mag release and on my limited i put on an extended release and a softer mag release spring. This eliminated the shifting of the gun in the grip. It does make we flip the gun when the start as the gun resting on something. But the technique for picking it up with the weak hand is actually pretty fast. If you listen to Matt Burkett--he says modify your gun to fit your hand. It is your gun and it does not have to enter a beauty contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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