Tom Mainus Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) We are trying to think outside the box for this years WI sectional. Instead of a prize table and cash payouts, would you come to a match knowing that regardless of how many entries per division, the match staff was going to draw for a gun per division? You shoot open and there 30 people in that division, you have a 1 in 30 chance of winning. Shoot Revo with 3 other guys, 1 in 3 chance of winning. This might get people to shoot a division that they might not normally try to better there odds at winning a gun. All other things remain equal. 9 stages, free lunch, match fee $90, reputation of the match staff putiing on a well run event with qualified staff, and trophies. Match averages between 70 and 90 shooters when we have it at Schultz's. Let me know what you think. Tom Edited February 28, 2009 by Tom Mainus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree that will have the desired effect. My only question is what is the benefit to having more people in the less popular divisions? A Limited shooter that dusts off the revolver to have a better chance of winning a gun, will be less likely to win than the person that shoots revolver every week. I do agree that revolver is under represented and, due to reloading and capacity, the competitors are almost always farther down in the overall standings than equivalent level shooters in other divisions. Jerry Miculek notwithstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmwater Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 (edited) He said DRAW for a gun. Everyone would have the same chance. I agree with you about the same shooters coming out but shooting in different divisions though...... Kind of a novel idea.......... Edit-whoops. I misunderstood your post OPM. sorry Edited February 28, 2009 by Calmwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mainus Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree that will have the desired effect. My only question is what is the benefit to having more people in the less popular divisions? A Limited shooter that dusts off the revolver to have a better chance of winning a gun, will be less likely to win than the person that shoots revolver every week. I do agree that revolver is under represented and, due to reloading and capacity, the competitors are almost always farther down in the overall standings than equivalent level shooters in other divisions. Jerry Miculek notwithstanding. The drawing for the guns would be random. Everyone who shoots in that division gets one ticket for the gun. So if someone who normally shoots limited, decides to try SS because there are only 5 people signed up for SS, but there are 30 signed up for limited, they just improved thier odds at winning a gun. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Got it now. It would be an interesting match. Watching the bottom feeders deal with moon clips and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Lots of prize table, drawings, awards, money etc etc discussions. They all end up with a common theme. People come to a match because the stages are good, the match is organized and runs smoothly, and the match staff are professional, fair and knowledgeable about the rules. If you want to increase numbers lower the entry fees and dont worry about prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNorth Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I'm always looking for a good reason to come back home to Wisconsin. I think I might have just found another one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 It would draw my attention, and probably would force me into shooting a division "other than", but if everyone thought that way the divisions may balance out some. Looking at last year competition, mabey a 20% chance at a gun if people spread out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think it is a great Idea. I know it might help in another way too. Alot of people may bring less skilled individuals with them. Alot of us will not bring a wife, or junior shooter to a bigger match , not only because of the large fee, but because we, and they know, they are very unlikely to win anything, to recoup that fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Won't work for me, I'd have to buy a revolver then figure out how to shoot the damn thing... Seriously, a great attraction for the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badchad Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 The drawing for the guns would be random. Everyone who shoots in that division gets one ticket for the gun. So if someone who normally shoots limited, decides to try SS because there are only 5 people signed up for SS, but there are 30 signed up for limited, they just improved thier odds at winning a gun. For reasons I've expounded on elsewhere, I'm philosophically opposed to random drawings. FWIW according to a poll I took a while back, so are most shooters: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=71470&hl= So this would make me less likely to come. Give a gun out to the winner of every division and I think you might have something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Tom....I think this is a great idea......The only problem I can think of, from having attended matches all over the place, is if say all but one of the guns go to either local guys or match staff ..........I think that speaks for itself, but by god I and others have been to other matches where the match staff just magically end up with all the good loot, every freaking year......Dont get me wrong, you need to take care of the match staff, without them you dont have the match, but I think you see what I am talking about. That would be a great way to make sure a lot of people get heartburn and think/speak negatively about the match. You dont want your match to be the one where people talk about and then everyone nods there head because they too know what was going on....... To make life easy on you guys It would be easier to get gun certificates to hand out than have to deal with the FFL situation, but then you would like to have the guns out on display at the match too..... Good luck, and I hope my schedule allows me to go this year! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 Give a gun out to the winner of every division and I think you might have something. That sounds a lot better to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tk4 Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 The drawing for the guns would be random. Everyone who shoots in that division gets one ticket for the gun. So if someone who normally shoots limited, decides to try SS because there are only 5 people signed up for SS, but there are 30 signed up for limited, they just improved thier odds at winning a gun. For reasons I've expounded on elsewhere, I'm philosophically opposed to random drawings. FWIW according to a poll I took a while back, so are most shooters: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=71470&hl= So this would make me less likely to come. Give a gun out to the winner of every division and I think you might have something. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks this way. What ever happened to rewarding excellence? What are we teaching our children? I wonder why our country is in the state it is in? I guess this way nobody has to practice before the match to try to get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Damn, and I was counting moon clips to see if I had enough to shoot a match. SS and Revolver will be dead that time of the year. Production, Limited and Open will have the normal contingent. I think the idea will pull a few guys out of Production, Limited and Open to the other divisions but I don't think it will do a lot. The $25 plaque for winning is more on my mind than a gun I am going to sell as soon as I get it, bad economics but it is the truth. I will shoot the division I think I have the best chance of winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) If you were (not even very) rich you could have one gun for each Division winner AND one gun drawing per Division (you could get two if not three new Glocks for the cost of one Limited pistol - $6500 for ten Glocks plus trophies doesn't sound like that much outlay to this non match organizer ). Edited March 5, 2009 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
born-in-45 Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 If you were (not even very) rich you could have one gun for each Division winner AND one gun drawing per Division (you could get two if not three new Glocks for the cost of one Limited pistol - $6500 for ten Glocks plus trophies doesn't sound like that much outlay to this non match organizer ). $6,500 would be tough based on 70 to 90 shooters at $90 per ($6,300 to $8,100 revenue). When you add in the cost of targets, free lunch, any pay back to the range, RO comps, trophies, you would be in the deep red quickly. However, you can usually get a gun or two donated and a discount on additional guns. So the cost for 10 guns might be considerably less. It is surprising how fast the money is consumed when putting on a match. Like shooting, the little things (costs) add up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 See, there I go, not knowing enough - was thinking of a considerably larger # of shooters. kc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 The guys who have the best chance of winnig will always oppose an idea of someone other than themselves walking away with a prize of value. Those (of us) who never have the "snowballs chance" will love the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) The guys who have the best chance of winnig will always oppose an idea of someone other than themselves walking away with a prize of value. Those (of us) who never have the "snowballs chance" will love the idea. ....And those of us who just love shooting will come out for reasons other than the prize table. Edited March 11, 2009 by larry cazes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P. Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 The guys who have the best chance of winnig will always oppose an idea of someone other than themselves walking away with a prize of value. Those (of us) who never have the "snowballs chance" will love the idea. Those guys who win have spent more money on practice then the gun is worth. I still remain that you reward performance. Here's an idea for a prize, every entry get a powerball ticket or a scratch off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 (edited) I like going to the larger matches because of the quality of the match and the competition. It really let's you know where you are at with the shooting universe. I guess I could be included in the "snowball's chance" class but I will never say that since it is way too easy (for me) to use that as cover story for lazy. All I can say when Taran looks over his shoulder, he is not looking for me (yet ) That said, let the division winners get the top prize. Plaques for class winners is fine if that's want you want to do but if you look at the results, your score is based on the top dog. Everything else is just creative ways of categorizing the losers. What I love about this sport if you are at a match and the world champ steps on the field, you play against them. Not too many other sports give you that chance! This is not the Special Olympics. Please do not try to steer it that way. Remember the joke: "You may win but you are still ...." Later, Chuck Edited March 11, 2009 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 The guys who have the best chance of winnig will always oppose an idea of someone other than themselves walking away with a prize of value. Those (of us) who never have the "snowballs chance" will love the idea. ....And those of us who just love shooting will come out for reasons other than the prize table. And that would most definitely be me, Larry.... I have no great desire to win a gun by drawing nor do I expect to win one by overall placement... I probably spend as much money at shooting as anyone on this forum excepting professional shooters. God gave some a gift - some of us not. With a ton of hard work AND the gift from God you can be a GM. ......Additional paragraphs deleted as non productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 The guys who have the best chance of winnig will always oppose an idea of someone other than themselves walking away with a prize of value. Those (of us) who never have the "snowballs chance" will love the idea. ....And those of us who just love shooting will come out for reasons other than the prize table. And that would most definitely be me, Larry.... I have no great desire to win a gun by drawing nor do I expect to win one by overall placement... I probably spend as much money at shooting as anyone on this forum excepting professional shooters. God gave some a gift - some of us not. With a ton of hard work AND the gift from God you can be a GM. ......Additional paragraphs deleted as non productive. Good points all, Merlin. Just seems wrong to be so concerned with prizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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