To Change Platforms or not to Change

[Rob D]

I know both of these platforms are viable. I've been shooting a glock 34 in productionf or several months, and have wanted to move up to limited for a while. I've got a couple of good choices for limited guns in front of me right now and I'm not sure which way to go.

A:

Glock 35 - Bone stock, 5 hi cap mags, $500

I'd have to buy mag extensions and I'd want to add a mag well and a very good trigger(probably Vanek) I'd probably also replace the barrel so I could shoot lead and have less "glocked" brass.

B:

Para p16-40: stock, 3 high cap mags, $750

I'd have to get a couple more mags and also purchase the extensions to make them all 140mm, then I'd probably add a mag well and starting learning to shoot a 1911. I might also have to send this gun in to make it run reliably(no reports of jams, but who knows), whereas I can pretty much bet on the glock being 99-100% without any trouble.

I don't want to start a "which is better" thread. I know they're both very viable options. I just want to know what to expect in switching if I decide to go that way. I'm familiar with the glock and I shoot my 34 pretty well, but I'm envious of 1911 triggers and am curious about the difference in muzzle flip. Has anybody made this change? My glock is the first gun that I've really learned to shoot well. How hard is learning a new platform? I'm also on a budget, so anybody who has started shooting a para recently and knows about what it would cost to get mags etc feel free to chime in.

Thanks.

**Mods, sorry to post this in the wrong forum. I just realized it and can't seem to delete so I can repost. Please move me over to Guns and Reloading Questions. Sorry for the trouble

Edited February 12, 2009 by Rob D

[VegasOPM]

I can just tell you what my experience has been. I started with a Glock, went to a Para, sold it for an STI Eagle (all dolled up) and went back to the Glock. It isn't that hard to switch platforms, but why fix what isn't broken?

Take the 35, buy 5 Arre +5 extensions (although you will likely only see +4), a Dawson Ice mag well, Sevigny sights and a Glockworx drop-in Fulcrum trigger kit. For around $1000 you will have a gun that works 100%, has a 2.5# trigger with no take up or slop, and can hold it's own against anything out there (as long as you do your part). I'm not a big believer in aftermarket barrels- but YMMV.

[Trail3]

I did the switch from a Glock 35. Shot it in IDPA and USPSA. Went to a XD 9 for IDPA. Loved the grip angle. Had a Canyon Creek trigger Job.

Shot it much better than the Glock. Wanted to go to a 1911 platform, living in California our choices are limited, for a double stacked 1911. Got a Para 16 40. Had some work done on the trigger, mag well. Got it legal for IDPA and set up the mags for limited. Really like it. Shoot minor in IDPA and Major for USPSA. I wanted to just have one gun for both. I do some 3 gun so I needed a limited set up. Only real problem with the Para is it likes the ammo loaded long. 1.18. Can't use any factory ammo like the Glock. I did have a Vanek trigger job done, great job he did and had a grip reduction to the Glock. Still getting use to the Para. Will run it for another year to see how I do with it. Really like the 1911 trigger and the extra weight of the Para.

Just get a 35 top in for your 34 and get a Para also.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Trail3

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Buy the Glock 35 and have fun. Get yourself some base pads and 10 mags or so. I would also change the sights. You could sell your G34 or keep it for production. You could also shoot your G34 in Limited and shoot minor for a while. That way you could get some base pads and install them on your G34 mags. Lots to think about now Thanks, Eric

[iainmcphersn]

I went from a Glock 17 to a P-16. Found I did not like the extra weight. Something about picking up twice as much weight each draw. I went back to the 17 and sold the Para back to guy I bought it from. I think you'd be happier with a G35 but if you get a chance to try it without buying it, you might like it better.

John

[mike4045]

I just switched back to a Glock from STI. I have a 34 and 35 for production and IDPA.

I would stay with a 35. I don't run extended pads or magwells. My guns are near stock with add on sights. .25 trigger job.

I tried the Para route, I think you would be much happier with a Glock. Alot less trouble and they always go bang

Mike

[SA Friday]

Well, I went a different direction. I went from a Glock 34 to a Glock 24 to a STI Edge and finally a custom Benny Hill Fat Free 6". My take, I should have skipped a few steps in the middle. If you're hooked and in for the long term, stick with the G34 and save until you can get a custom gun from Benny/Bedell/Millennium/Dawson etc.

Unless you're going to stick with the Glock platform for the feel of it, all possible steps in between are simply learning curve until you end up with one of the above custom built guns.

[Viggen]

Unless you get an STI, Glockk is the way to go.

[mpeltier]

I'll take option C:

[Jman]

Call Glockmeister and buy a complete G35 upper assembly. Replace your 9mm trigger mechanism housing to a .40 S&W. Have a set Dawson or Warren/Sevigny sights installed. A couple mag extensions and you're a Limited shooter. Or just buy whatever you want and practice hard with it.

Jim

[bulm540]

Well, I went a different direction. I went from a Glock 34 to a Glock 24 to a STI Edge and finally a custom Benny Hill Fat Free 6". My take, I should have skipped a few steps in the middle. If you're hooked and in for the long term, stick with the G34 and save until you can get a custom gun from Benny/Bedell/Millennium/Dawson etc.

Unless you're going to stick with the Glock platform for the feel of it, all possible steps in between are simply learning curve until you end up with one of the above custom built guns.

Ditto on that one. I could have save a lot of dough if I have skipped the middle steps but i guess you learn as you go along. Love my fat free 6.

[Rob D]

Well, I went a different direction. I went from a Glock 34 to a Glock 24 to a STI Edge and finally a custom Benny Hill Fat Free 6". My take, I should have skipped a few steps in the middle. If you're hooked and in for the long term, stick with the G34 and save until you can get a custom gun from Benny/Bedell/Millennium/Dawson etc.

Unless you're going to stick with the Glock platform for the feel of it, all possible steps in between are simply learning curve until you end up with one of the above custom built guns.

Yeah, I thought about adding Option C. Shoot production another season and buy a 2011 next year.

I ended up buying the G35. It was such a good deal at $500 flat with 5 mags that I figure I can get my money back out of it if I end up not liking it. That said, I think I'm going to like it. I've got mag extensions on the way, and after another paycheck or two I'll be sending to Charlie Vanek for some trigger love. Then I just need a set of Sevigny Competition sights since that's what I'm used to on my 34. I think I'll be able to start shooting limited after the double tap in march.

Now to search the reloading forums and find a 40 major load. Thanks to everyone for the input.

[dqshooter]

I would like to add my two cents if i could. I was never a glock guy prior to shooting USPSA. I think the one major plus with glock is that out of the box they RuNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! There are alot of add-on that are easy to install. Have a trigger job done, Dawson Ice mag well, Hard Chrome the slide, MGM has this awsome beaver tail (no more slide bite) and to finish it throw some Pimp grip on(Agrip). Dawson extended base pads are great, no tools to lose. Jump into limited and have a blast. I have kicked around getting a Edge and always seem to go back look at my glock and change my mind. Just my thoughts.

[Sam815]

I would like to add my two cents if i could. I was never a glock guy prior to shooting USPSA. I think the one major plus with glock is that out of the box they RuNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! There are alot of add-on that are easy to install. Have a trigger job done, Dawson Ice mag well, Hard Chrome the slide, MGM has this awsome beaver tail (no more slide bite) and to finish it throw some Pimp grip on(Agrip). Dawson extended base pads are great, no tools to lose. Jump into limited and have a blast. I have kicked around getting a Edge and always seem to go back look at my glock and change my mind. Just my thoughts.

I happen to own both a Glock 34 and a Para P-16 and it's like comparing apples to oranges. They are entirely different guns in many ways. I ended up shooting my Glock most of last year in both L-10 and Production divisions. While I wouldn't necessarily consider the para unreliable, they definitely require some tuning in order to shoot accurately. I ended up replacing the internals, sights and got a trigger job from Brazos in order to get it running.

The glock on the other hand, will shoot consistently out of the box with few mods. The only modification required on the glock would be some decent sights. I'll probably shoot the para this season in Ltd. and decide whether or not to keep it. I purchased it from the dealer below his cost since he was moving shop to another location. He didn't want to move all the inventory, with the upgrades it's still less than a limited P-16 from Para Ord. Considering adding a Dawson magwell but I'll have to replace basepads as well or modify my Arredondos. Jury is still out on that one.

[chrisjohn]

Stick with the Glock or go custom/semi custom with the STI platform. Para's suck money and will never be the as nice as the STI even after replacing everything.

[ryan45kim]

Someone better tell TJ that his gun is no good.

My P16 is so bad I could only get to master in limited (I’m sure it’s all the guns fault).

Our local limited GM wishes he still shot a Para but he now shoots a --- for the contingency money.

Quit bashing Paras.

Pick what YOU like and practice, you can not buy you’re way to the top.

I’ve watched all of the above guns puke, they are machines and all machines break from time to time.

[chrisjohn]

TJ gets paid to shoot a Para Ordinance.

Hey shoot what ever you want, I was just offering my opinion based on the sample size I've seen and my the advice of my late friend and gunsmith.

[ryan45kim]

Sorry if I seam abrupt I just get tired of the Para bashing

Paras are the cheapest way to get a 1911 limited gun that I know of (unless you can find an Armscor which is a copy of a Para).

In my area I am surrounded by them and the vast majority of them work great.

Most of the Paras that I’ve seen choke are because someone “made it better” and did not fit the parts properly, or the ammo.

All 1911 style guns in 40 S&W tend to like there ammo loaded long, just the nature of the beast.

I’m not saying that Paras are the greatest gun ever made, but they are not junk either.

PS TJ shot a Para before they paid him to shoot there guns.

[VegasOPM]

I'm thinking that the key is to pick a platform, Glock or 1911-based and practice with it a lot. The grip angle, trigger feel, recoil impulse, timing and manual of arms are different enough that swiching back and forth can be problematic for many shooters (me included). Something as goofy as forgetting to engage the safety when holstering or disengaging it on presentation will cost you time or get you DQ'ed. I was dry firing my 1911 a few weeks ago and I realized after 20 minutes that I hadn't been engaging the safety.

[ParaGunner]

I shoot both Para and Glock and I love my Para. I shoot my Para s14-45 in Limited and it runs great every time. I wanted a metal frame on my 1911 and I got it with no regrets.

[zipper046]

Get the GLOCK! THey run, you can work on them yourself, and there are TONS of aftermarket parts if you need.

I have a P16.40 also with 4 factory mag's & Dawson extensions. It will be going up for sale soon.

z-

[spd522]

I get tired of the GLOCK runs every time BS. When I was a firearms instructor and armorer for my dept, we were always replacing something breaking on the issue Glocks. Slide stop levers and trigger springs broke regularly and extractors on the 40 cal chipped and failed for someone every week. These were stock guns carried by cops on duty, (meaning carried a lot and shot little) not tweaked competition guns. I chose to carry something that had proven reliable to me instead.

However, if you like the Glock system and are comfortable and familiar with it, you could try it for a while and see how it worked for you. There is always a market for used Glocks if you change your mind.

I have 3 Paras I shoot competitively a lot. Mine are 45 and 9mm, (no 40 cal) but I don't have to load ammo special for them to run. Reloads or factory ammo work fine in all three.

My L10/Ltd gun is the 45. Yes, I give up a few rounds in the mag but I don't have to deal with all the gags and ammo issues of a 40 cal my shooting

buddies have with their fancy STI guns either. One of my 9mm guns is for Open. I have never had to tune mags to work. If I have a problem, I can trace it to something I did or being time to replace springs and followers. I don't feel hindered by shooting a Para. I have shot STI open guns and don't do any better.

So for all the remarks about one gun being the greatest and another junk, there are some of each in every manufacturers product line.

Just like you can get a super reliable Yugo or a POS Lexus. It happens from every manufacturer.

It's the shooter, not the gun. Go with what works for you and what kind of budget you want to invest in it.

Craig

[Garrett]

While everyone is saying what works best for them or what they have done, see if you can find out what works best for you. I like Glocks and shoot them okay, but I always shoot my Para better. It is more comfortable to me. It points a little better, and the sights come back on target just a little faster. Also, a "pretty good" 1911 is comparable to the best Glock triggers out there.

See if you can find some people in your club with tricked out guns in both styles and try running a practice course with both of them. What works best for you? There is something to what others have said about just picking a platform and working with it. But if you naturally do better with one over the other, why not start there?

[Graham Smith]

I like my Glock 35 for production and limited, but there have been a number of very good limited guns of all styles for sale lately. You might just find a hard to resist bargain if you look around a bit.

[little_kahuna]

Well, I went a different direction. I went from a Glock 34 to a Glock 24 to a STI Edge and finally a custom Benny Hill Fat Free 6". My take, I should have skipped a few steps in the middle. If you're hooked and in for the long term, stick with the G34 and save until you can get a custom gun from Benny/Bedell/Millennium/Dawson etc.

Unless you're going to stick with the Glock platform for the feel of it, all possible steps in between are simply learning curve until you end up with one of the above custom built guns.

Ditto on that one. I could have save a lot of dough if I have skipped the middle steps but i guess you learn as you go along. Love my fat free 6.

I'm an advocate of the 6" STI, mine was built by Benny Hill, and i couldnt have chosen better.

You can make a Glock work, you can make a para work, you can make a hi-point work, you can make a wrist-rocket work... they all can work!

All the restraints people see from different guns can be (mostly, if not) completely overcome by consistent and valuable dry practice. I got to about the high-B, low-A level in lim w/ a Glock 35 and practically no mods through extensive training and an unhealthy amount of drypractice.

I switched to a 6" STI, and i can say its much nicer to shoot, more forgiving, and it eliminates a lot of the "non-human" variable. The goal is to improve YOUR shooting, not how you shoot w/ a specific gun. So pick something, shoot the p!ss out of it, and practice till your hands bleed. I can tell you will never out-shoot a 6" sti you the 6" STI platform you'll never fell as it is holding you back.

The advantage i see in S_I is the widespread gunsmithing/accesories and crips/light trigger. If you didnt want to mod your gun, you'd stay in production, but all lim guns need modding. The more mods i did to my glock, the less reliable it was, so i ended up going back to factory config. Before i switched to STI, by glock had WST sights, a kkm barrel and a $0.25 trigger job.

As i said before, you can be competitive with anything, Dave Sevigney proved that in 2006; he won limited nats with a near-factory glock 35. Winners dont win because their weapon system is far superior to the others, but because they are good enough to pick up any firearm and be proficient with it through practice.