benos Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 2cats asked this question in the Gear and Accessory Questions, so I posted it here... "What about sight picture? Is the Bo-Mar popularity tied to the notion that you can't beat the traditional notch and post? Let's expand this subject: What do people like and dislike about their sight pictures?" 2cats, I was talking with a fella on the phone this morning about the pros and cons of the Wilson Combat Pyramid rear blade. (I may have been the first to experiment with that style rear blade, inspired by Walter Roper's book, Experiments of a Handgunner.) I "thought" I liked it for several years, but over time I began to notice that I really didn't shoot as well as it "looked" like I was - when I was actually shooting. Meaning, my shots weren't landing as close to my calls as I expected. I finally gave it up because I did not feel I was getting the feedback, in the horizontal alignment department, offered by a standard rear blade. The Pyramid rear blade, and the T's or inverted T front sights look real good when you're aiming statically, but at speed, for me, I didn't feel I was getting the feedback that traditional patridge sights provide. At speed, it's just hard to beat the big, bold, easily-readable, sight picture of patridge sights. It's uncanny how quickly the eye can discern any misalignment whatsoever on these type sights. It's a hard thing to explain in words. Maybe one more thought might help. Many of the trendy sights in use today easily show you when the sights are perfectly aligned; however, they provide little feedback concerning where the shot may land if they are slightly to grossly misaligned. Which is the way we shoot most of our shots in IPSC. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Make mine Johnny Cash sights in basic black. No dots, no outlines, no fiber optic, no tritium. (Except a tritium front in a defensive gun, but I'm talking about action pistol shooting here, accuracy at speed in daylight.) Serrations are acceptable, but little or no ramp angle, please. I want to see some daylight around each side of the front sight. When the width and notch combination is wrong and there's only a little sliver of daylight, I have to resort to repeated, very fine correction and evaluation of the sight picture. With enough daylight, I just know right there and then and I don't have to spend time fiddling around with it. If it's off, it's kind of self-correcting, subconsciously... I don't need to evaluate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 Funny I had a post I wanted to make and didn't' know where it would fit, i guess this is as good as any. I use a Wilson/Novak rear sight with a semi pyramid blade and I just switch to a fiber optic front sight. I shoot it well and it's as fast as any other type of iron sights i have shot in the past. but the one thing i found tonight while dry firing on the tv was, with both eyes open I see the fiber optic dot very clear, but when I close my left eye I lose the fiber optic and have a plain post front sight. I'm sure this has to do with the lighting in my den but it sure made me think? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 13, 2002 Share Posted August 13, 2002 The notch and post suits me fine. I can't stand dots, but do like a white or yellow front sight as long as there's a little black around it. I've been somewhat giving up a "real" sight picture in favor of concentrating on the front sight in order to gain some speed unless the range is long or head shots are involved, or I just feel otherwise uncomfortable. My elevation is off, but not enough to endanger "A" hits. I'm not sure this is the best thing to be doing, but so far it's been OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 15, 2002 Share Posted August 15, 2002 My front sight is a tall skinny post, .09" wide. The rear notch is .125". No dots, bars, crosses or whatnot to mar its ebon purity. The rear sight notch is very deep. At first I didn't like this and whined about it "slowing me down." Now I don't even notice it. This sight picture is MUCH easier to see fast than my old fat tritium 3-dot set-up. I like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aspiringpistolero Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 for bullseye i seem to have the greatest success with the wilson combat pyramid sights, but for speed shooting i seem to do best with a black rear sight and either a large white dot, or red painted front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted August 16, 2002 Share Posted August 16, 2002 It has to be all black, notch and post, there has to be some light around the FS, I don't really care about the rest. Some say that if the FS has to little light around it it's bad, but I don't buy that. If you have a good index, you won't have any trouble. Besides, it's easy to get caught thinking that you have a good sight picture when you have a really thin FS and a very wide notch, but it's also more difficult to see if the FS is "in the middle". It's sort of like C-more vs. Aimpoint. With the c-more you definately need to be able to index correctly. I currently shoot a serrated Ramp and find it disturbingly reflecting light only in very few situations. As a matter of fact, I find it less disturbing than shooting all black "non reflecting" sights when I'm shooting in low light situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 The Wilson adjustable with a .128" notch with my .099" front is a good combination. It seems I can track the front sight better during fult-tilt-boogie (teen splits) shooting. I was having a little trouble at 40 yards trying to zero the thing. A couple shots straying outside the A zone to the left, next string a couple straying to the right... Could be me, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 It couldn't be you! Your sights are probably moving to the left and right on the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 OK so I meant to say perfect sight alignment may be somewhat more difficult to monitor or maintain with my notch/post combination, or it could have been me just yanking the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 26, 2002 Author Share Posted August 26, 2002 Erik, I've used that sight picture and liked it. Now, I have a .133 rear and a .113 front, and like it for "full tilt boogie" as well. You might try a .105 - .108 front so the front site isn't swimming around in the notch quite as much... be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
down0 Posted August 28, 2002 Share Posted August 28, 2002 I'm still experimenting with what works....I like the big glow of the fiber optic, but I wonder if the larger front fiber optics fill up the rear notch without giving me the ability to make small corrections. I like tritiums for the bedside gun, but they tend to wash out in daylight...makes me wish for the day (back in the day) when red ramp/white outline was the only way to fly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 It's a hard thing to explain in words. Maybe one more thought might help. Many of the trendy sights in use today easily show you when the sights are perfectly aligned; however, they provide little feedback concerning where the shot may land if they are slightly to grossly misaligned. Which is the way we shoot most of our shots in IPSC. be Feedback. I nice chewy morsel of information. I probably didn't realize this when Brian first posted it. But, the sights don't just line up the shot, they give the shooter feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Interesting looking back isn't it? One thing I get my students to do is try shooting with the front post offset from a "perfect" sight picture so that they can learn to read what the sights are telling them when they aren't aligned...and how much they can get away with...or not. I've always prefered the post and notch type of sight picture, from shooting PPC and strict accuracy matches, it gives the cleanest sight picture. And I guess once you are used to it and know how to read it, the feedback just seems natural. However I did pick up a fiber optic front sight to try.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasOPM Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 I have played with pretty much every sight configuration imaginable and I always go back to the post and notch. I have to say that I do like a fiber optic front sight. It seems to help me track the sight a little better during recoil. I started shooting BB guns when I was 7 and rifles when I was 9. I would spend 4-6 hours per day during the summer hunting turtles and snakes with a single shot .22 short (you get one shot and it better be a head shot). They always had the traditional post and notch, so I guess that is what was imprinted on my mind as "THE" sight picture. Now if I could just get a post and notch for the AR.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 It's a hard thing to explain in words. Maybe one more thought might help. Many of the trendy sights in use today easily show you when the sights are perfectly aligned; however, they provide little feedback concerning where the shot may land if they are slightly to grossly misaligned. Which is the way we shoot most of our shots in IPSC. be Feedback. I nice chewy morsel of information. I probably didn't realize this when Brian first posted it. But, the sights don't just line up the shot, they give the shooter feedback. Yes. The feedback you get from the sights might even be more important than lining up the shot with them. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The feedback you get from the sights might even be more important than lining up the shot with them.be It took me a long time to realize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) It's a hard thing to explain in words. Maybe one more thought might help. Many of the trendy sights in use today easily show you when the sights are perfectly aligned; however, they provide little feedback concerning where the shot may land if they are slightly to grossly misaligned. Which is the way we shoot most of our shots in IPSC. be Feedback. I nice chewy morsel of information. I probably didn't realize this when Brian first posted it. But, the sights don't just line up the shot, they give the shooter feedback. Yes. The feedback you get from the sights might even be more important than lining up the shot with them. be That sounds right. I like FO fronts because the sight is easier to track in recoil and find when it comes down, but they aren't good for bullseye shooting. Diligencia is fine and dandy in the logo, but let's face it, you rarely NEED the corners for an IPSC shot. I know that when I was shooting 50yd bullseye the other day, I appreciated the fat black front sight on my 1911 and the tiny sliver of light on either side, but I can't stand it when I shoot the same gun at the SS Classic. H. Edited November 3, 2008 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 The feedback you get from the sights might even be more important than lining up the shot with them.be It took me a long time to realize this. That's a good statement right there. It's probably why I've always shot irons better than optics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julien Boit Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 To fiber or not to fiber, that's the question ! I've been back and forth in the past. I started shooting IPSC with a stock glock 35. With its OEM sights, it was sometimes really difficult to call my shots properly. As I evolved in the sport, I switched to a 1911/2011 platform and the availability of different sights types. I've settled on dawson fiber optic FS and SVI rear sight. I've had Bomars for years, but I believe the SV sights are better. To me, they offer less glare and less reflection in some light conditions. I also tried some kind of pyramidal RS, and as Brian stated, I had difficulties to track the sights on the vertical plane. My rear sights are only trimmed on the corner. My FS is a dawson .125, but after the Worldshoot, I might try a .110. Now that I'm able to focus properly (most of the time ) on the FS, I believe this sight is the best for me as of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I like the F/O front sight. Maybe I'll change my mind later in life but for now it gives me a good fast first shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I dont ...... I prefer steel on steel when it comes to iron sights. Havent made up my mind yet about the proper sizes of front vs. rears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 For those who mention they prefer plain black front sights (w/ plain black rear sights), where are your POI, at the top of the sights? I ask because I currently use a red FO front sight and I'd like to try using a plain black FS. However, my current POI is right at the FO. If I use a plain black FS then the POI will be covered by the black post and I'll have to estimate where that point is w/o the red FO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 For those who mention they prefer plain black front sights (w/ plain black rear sights), where are your POI, at the top of the sights? Yes. Say you zero at 25 yards, you want the center of your group to be at the top of the front sight. b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I like a notch and post. But my handguns have always had dots, white or tritium, on them. Maybe it's just what I'm used to seeing. It seems to me that plain black sights could get lost against a dark target like a black painted steel plate. With a notch and post with three dots in a line, I've got light and dark. Whatever I'm shooting at, I should be able to see a sight picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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