Ultimate 3-gun Ar15?

[Jim Linch]

I'm looking to buy/build my first AR15 for 3-gun primarily. Since I know nothing other than how to shoot one from the Marines, I would like to ask those shooting 3-gun what they use and why? If you were to build a gun where would you start and with what?

I'm thinking a carbine since most local matches are under 200yrds, and swing-ability would be better on a shorty. I like the 16" varmint from RRA, but wonder about the bull weight?

Also, I'd appreciate any links to good 3-gun forums/websites.

Thanks!

[John Dunn]

If you do a search here you'll find quite a bit of info.

Briefly, for 3-gun an 18 inch barrel is probably a better choice because a wider selection of ammo makes minor power factor. You can do it with a 16, it's just requires hotter ammo. I don't own a JP Enterprises AR, but I've shot a couple and they are sweet, and big sponsors of 3-gun matches. I've also heard great stuff about Triangle Shooting Sports ARs here on the forum. My personal AR was built by Dave Lauck of D&L Sports, and I love it. I probably have 1,500-2,000 rounds through it now, and I can't recall a single malfunction. I think a compensator is a good idea, make sure you get one legal for your division (limited, open).

Welcome, and good luck!

[Chriss Grube]

If you can afford it the JP CTR02 with 18" barrel. You pick the weight from the barrel choices. Lo mass system, and pick the comp for open or limited/ tactical. Runs around 2100 bucks but it is the top of the line AR. If you want to spend less check with Benny Hill. He is building some good AR's for less than half the JP. These aren't your devil dog issued AR's.

[Zak Smith]

I agree. Give JP a call and see what you can get in your price range. I looked at their demos at Raton and they were impressive.

I'm currently running a 16" Rock River flat-top with a mid-length gas system and semi-bull barrel (it's bull behind the gas block and Hbar in front). It's nice and compact, but HEAVY.

Next time around, I'll go the opposite direction and get a 18 or 20" lightweight barrel. JP's ultralight barrels were real nice.

If you go 16", some factory 55gr ammo will not make "Minor" power factor.

-z

[George]

IMHO, if you want to have someone put together the ultimate AR-15 for 3gun, John Paul Gangl @ JP Rifles, or Benny Hill @ Triangle Shooting Sports will give you the real deal. Both of these guys come out and shoot the matches as well as provide sponsorship to them (you usually look in the top ten to find their names in match results). The base rifle will take you back from the low teens, towards 2k if you want real special. Figure $700-900 for optics (think Trijicon or Leupold here). Call them both up and talk to them before you spend your bucks anywhere else. You will be steered straight by either of these guys.

BTW, the big dawgs all seem to be sportin' 20's at the matches. I see a few folks playing with the 18's, but it's 20" bbls on the winners guns mostly.

Regards,

[PacMan]

I agree with all above recommendations regarding JP rifles, if you want to go first class with your first AR, the JP rifles are extremely nice and accurate. However, if you are in the budget mode, build one up from a kit, or just get one from RRA. Yes, the 20" HBAR profile $uck$, but that's all RRA is offering. For versatility, stick with the 20" length. It is not a big deal shooting and maneuvering the 20" in tight quarters (no one complained about their 20" AR at Stage 2 of the RM3G Match, where we shot all 3 weapons out of both sides of a little bird helicopter.)

[old john]

I vote also for the 18" jp. I sold my 16" after three matches and ordered a 18' jp. John and his staff are great and their support for their equipment is top notch.

I have not seen a benny rifle but hear his pistols really run well. Ask benny if he does a 18'' however since 20'' is a little slower from point to point in 3 gun with close targerts. If it is a budget thing ask benny about installing a jp trigger in one of his rifles. I have my jp trigger set at under two pounds (sweet). That may be the best answer if in fact the benny rifle is cheaper! old john

[sfinney]

Cost being no factor, JP makes a heck of a rifle. Benny Hill also makes great running ARs, and are more affordable.

If you are looking to stay in the normal $$$ for typical AR range (under $1000) and shoot mostly under 200 yds, you might try this to get started:

Get a 20" HBAR flat top from Armalite, DPMS, Bushmaster, or Rock River Arms. Add a decent muzzle brake like the Miculek brake, Benny's brake, or JP's tactical brake. Free float the tube if its not already. Add a JP trigger. Put on detatchable iron sights front and rear for Limited, or plop on a Simmons ProDiamond 1.5 X 5 X 20 shotgun scope for under $100, and/or red dot scope of your choice for Open. Cheap and relaible, if not high tech. Later, you can always upgrade but this setup will get you started shooting!

[davidwiz]

FWIW, I have an AR built by EGW. I am using a Colt 6724 lower receiver with an upper that George put together. Flat top upper with front sight tower, 20" Wilson bbl (not Wilson Combat), EGW free float aluminum handguard, EGW E2 compensator, trigger job, and for optical sight, I have a 3.5x35 Trijicon TA-11 ACOG (donut reticle). Picture of my rifle http://www.uspsa-ma.org/images/AR_Rifle5.jpg

-David

[SGDM]

Jim,

Here is what I built last year for a cost of $1068. This rifle shoots 1/2 MOA at 200 m.

1. Kreiger 18" bbl, 1-8, from Metalcraft Specialties. I had the bbl built to my specs - .950 under hand guard, .750 in front of gas block, fluted. Mid length gas system, gun functions flawlessly.

2. Cooley Comp

3. Rock River flat top upper/lower

4. Armalite carbon free float tube

This here iron shoots great and will last a long time. Nothing special and cost a lot less than a JP. My primary bullet is 75 grn Hornady match at 2840fps. This rifle will shoot everything from 55 grn to 77's accurately. Hope this helps.

God Bless America!

[kellyn]

I concur with all the recommendations for JP and Triangle Sports. Another one to consider is the gator from Clark Custom Guns (on sale in the last front sight)

I really like how SGDM's rifle is set up.

My main AR is similar except it's from Accuracy Speaks and has an Accuracy Speaks handguard, extended scope rail, trigger, butt plate, and comp. It's got a Douglas SS 18 in 1in 9 twist barrel instead of a Kreiger. It also shoots 1/2 MOA with match bullets.

I've about given up preaching on the barrel length issue. Let's see (at least from my observations) who uses a 18 or 20 inch AR: Taran Butler, Kurt Miller, Bennie Cooley, Mike Voigt, Todd Salmon, Eddie Rhodes, John Gangle, Eric Miller, Jerry Miculek, Bruce Piatt, Jake Kempton, Tony Holmes, Kyle Lamb, Jim Clark Jr. You can talk about swingability, portability, manueverbility all you want but I'll stick with those guys.

I think I'm going to start recommending that eveyone (especially people competing against me) get a 16 inch AR, especially in limited class.

[Matthew_Mink]

One of my teammates shot a 16" AR at 3 gun Nats this year. He made 7th overall in Limited rifle, a D class shooter.

I think it all boils down to personal preference. I like 20's for competition, and don't like 16's for competition. You won't talk my friend into shooting anything longer than a 16" for competition. Go with what feels best and gives the best performance for you, not somebody else.

[ToddS]

Be careful with anything shorter than 18'. I've seen many shooters over the years not make minor shooting 16's with factory 55gr ammo.

As for limited, you really want to consider your sight radius, so stick with the longer barrels. I have always preferred 20's but JP has an 18' that is really appealing to me because of the weight. It has the full length gas tube and handguard, just less barrel sticking out beyond it.

For Open class, 16's are fine if you handload and chrono.

Todd Salmon

[Bear1142]

I'm with Todd on this one. Sight radius is a primary concern for limited rifle. Although I prefer the 16" barrels, I use a Bushmaster Dissipator setup to retain the 20" barrel sight radius with the short 16" barrel. I've never had a problem with making minor with 55's, but next year I'm switching over to 68's.

Erik

[Mig]

Jim,

If you could get a copy of the Benny Cooley article from Front Sight magazine (Nov/Dec 2001?) on how to setup a rifle for 3 gun competition - lots of good information and very informative.

As far as AR builders, I would recommend TTI but I'm on the team so I'm bias.

[drano38]

Jim,

I'm fairly new to 3-gun because I built my AR about 4 months ago.

It is a RRA flat top receiver, Clark carbon fiber forearm, JP trigger and JP 18" intermediate barrel w/ Bennie Cooley comp, and weighs about 7.2 lb w/out sights.

I've shot four 3-gun matches with it and really like the 18" barrel.

I still have not done any serious accuracy testing, but standing in the back of a pickup, shooting over the cab w/ a bipod and sandbag, I had 1 MOA groups at 400 yards w/ Ultramax remanufactured 55 gr FMJ loads. I'm sure w/ high quality ammo and a sold bench, it will be .5 to .75 MOA.

Also consider the JP-15 rifle. It is lower priced because it is not built on JPs competition receiver. Retails for about $1695 and would dealer out for less.

I like the weight of my AR when a red dot is mounted, but gets heavy w/ a scope. Keep in mind the carbon fiber forearm is about 6 oz. less than aluminum forarms. So if you plan to attach a lot of toys, you may want the JP light weight barrel and/or a Clark carbon fiber forearm.

You can't go wrong w/ a JP barrel or rifle.

Call John Paul, he will listen to you describe what you are looking for, and provide a recommendation.

Good luck

Drano38