Holster DQs

[Seth]

I've been going around in circles on holsters. I realize that USPSA isn't really a quick draw game, but its one of many aspects that I'm trying to get right and mark off the list.

I have a DOH, CRSpeed, and a Limcat. The DOH I use a LOT. Its used for IDPA matches with the drop removed, I use it for our weekly Monday night match, and actually carry with it on occasion. I don't actually like it with the DOH installed. It doesn't quite hit my hand right.

The CR I've had for about 6 months and like the platform and the positive click when the gun is holstered but I think the lock is woefully unacceptable. The limcat has a GREAT lock, a GREAT draw, but reholstering seems like a good spot to get into trouble. I've dropped the gun with the limcat in dry fire more than once being sloppy.

There's my question. WHERE do folks get into trouble? What were you doing when the gun went plop? Did you get a trip home or was it after the COF? Was it user error or holster malf?

Thx.

[Matt Cheely]

Never dropped a gun, but did forget to unlock my Ghost a few times.

With the proper discipline and awareness of your holster, you shouldn't have a problem.

[SteveU]

In a local match, after If clear, hammer down, holster, I did holster. I the proceeded to pick up my ejected round before locking my CR Speed holster, and my gun hit the ground when I knocked it out of the holster with my thigh.

Since the "Range is clear" command was not given yet, it was technically during the COF and is worth a trip to DQ.

My mistake, lesson learned. Lock holster before picking up round.

My gun has never been dislodged from the holster when the holster is locked. I don't move with the holster unlocked.

Hope that helps.

[lcs]

I dropped my open gun out of a Limcat while bending over to reset steel. I just stood there in and my RO training kicked in. I just stood there with the gun between my feet and yelled for the RO and the RO picked up my gun, cleared it, and handed it back to me.

No DQ as I followed the rules. Do not drop a gun during the COF (you get to paste targets for the rest of the match)

[Seth]

Matt,

In your mind does that mean run whatever I like the best? I try to be anal retentive during LAMR and ULASC.

[Matt Cheely]

Whatever you are comfortable with. Going to the bladetech without the drop, you're giving away a few tenths a stage, but if it makes you comfortable and not worry about it...

[Brian Gonsalves]

Never dropped a gun, but did forget to unlock my Ghost a few times.

With the proper discipline and awareness of your holster, you shouldn't have a problem.

+1 to both of Matt's thoughts!

When re-holstering, I do not move, start walking or do anything until the gun is holster and locked. Remember the Timed part of our game is over, slow down and make sure it's in and locked.

[JThompson]

I dropped my open gun out of a Limcat while bending over to reset steel. I just stood there in and my RO training kicked in. I just stood there with the gun between my feet and yelled for the RO and the RO picked up my gun, cleared it, and handed it back to me.

No DQ as I followed the rules. Do not drop a gun during the COF (you get to paste targets for the rest of the match)

You mean put it back in your holster right?

PS Happened to me once too.

Edited January 13, 2009 by JThompson

[Nik Habicht]

Whatever you are comfortable with. Going to the bladetech without the drop, you're giving away a few tenths a stage, but if it makes you comfortable and not worry about it...

A few tenths per stage where you need to stand and shoot....

...if you need to take a step or two, I think it's pretty much a wash....

While I have a preference for Kydex, I think it also really comes down to "pick one, learn its idiosyncrasies and practice...."

[Seth]

I was more thinking about the actions that shooters were taking that ended up in a gun on the ground. I can see failing to lock a holster and ending up with a gun on the ground. Or have one pop out during a seated start. But what are the real pitfalls? Where are the gotchas that I haven't experienced yet... the hey, watch out for....

[Matt Cheely]

The pitfalls are mental mistakes.

[SharonAnne9x23]

I went from a Plaxco (anyone remember them) to an Ernie Hill 666 to a CR Speed. Early on I used a Milt Sparks AT1 with my 1911. I now use my CR Speed with my Para P14-45. I have never dropped my pistol from any of them.

[JThompson]

CRs need to be adjusted properly or they can pop out pretty easy. If you sit lock the gun, or keep you hand on it while you sit then once you start go right to it before you get up.

I've had them pop off the post and had to stand up and tell the RO I needed to reholster it.

Edited January 14, 2009 by JThompson

[Matt Cheely]

CRs need to be adjusted properly or they can pop out pretty easy. If you sit lock the gun, or keep you hand on it while you sit then once you start go right to it before you get up.

That's the specific reason I don't like CR Speed. It "seems" more secure, but you can get the gun out while locked. With a ghost, you have to rip the trigger guard off the gun.

[Jaxshooter]

I have also been full circle on holsters. Started with a Limcat and have ended up back with it. As Matt said it is not a holster problem it is a mental one when the gun hits the ground.

[Chris Keen]

CRs need to be adjusted properly or they can pop out pretty easy. If you sit lock the gun, or keep you hand on it while you sit then once you start go right to it before you get up.

That's the specific reason I don't like CR Speed. It "seems" more secure, but you can get the gun out while locked. With a ghost, you have to rip the trigger guard off the gun.

+1

I got a CR Speed holster FREE as part of a package deal, and promptly got rid of it when I realized how easy a gun can come out ............ even when locked. Now I'll use nothing but a Ghost.

[JThompson]

CRs need to be adjusted properly or they can pop out pretty easy. If you sit lock the gun, or keep you hand on it while you sit then once you start go right to it before you get up.

That's the specific reason I don't like CR Speed. It "seems" more secure, but you can get the gun out while locked. With a ghost, you have to rip the trigger guard off the gun.

It's true... I've pulled it through lock many times in practice and during a few matches... while I was glad my mental lapse didn't cost me so much in the match, it opens your eyes and makes you really think about the gun when you move. I don't like the way Ghost pushes on my thigh and I don't like the security issues with the CR. Catch 22

[G-ManBart]

CRs need to be adjusted properly or they can pop out pretty easy. If you sit lock the gun, or keep you hand on it while you sit then once you start go right to it before you get up.

That's the specific reason I don't like CR Speed. It "seems" more secure, but you can get the gun out while locked. With a ghost, you have to rip the trigger guard off the gun.

+1

Yep, I keep sayin' it and sayin' it, but not everyone seems to believe it. The platform isn't a suitable substitute for a really solid lock. You really should be able to have both if you want them. I understand you can build up the lock on a CR to improve it greatly. Any of the holsers with a truly positive lock (Ghost, Limcat, Ribas) are more than secure if you have a consistent routine.

Now if Ghost would just come up with a way to make the lock lever a bit more positive and offer some more tension adjustment and keep it well under $200....they'd sell a boatload!

Posted this before, but it illustrates that even without a lock some race holsters can be very secure. My Ribas with the tension most of the way, but not all the way up...you can still draw from it, but it's going to take a severe hit to dislodge the gun....if it was locked it's not coming out period:

I'd guess that most dropped gun DQs (well from holsters anyway) are in seated/reclined starts, turning starts and prop starts (holding a dummy or similar). Most of the time if it's simply a moving start people get their hand on the gun before they've gone half a step and the risk of dropping it is pretty minimal.

Edited January 14, 2009 by G-ManBart

[CJDOUBLETAP]

On a stage this year where you had to pick up a grenade off the ground that was right in front of you while kneeling and make an attempt to hit a wall about 20 yards away or it was a penalty. Myself and another shooter had back to back DQ's involving CR speed holsters.

CR holsters are my farvorite, they are fast and if properly adjusted, extremely safe while locked. They are just not adequate for every start postition in USPSA.

[Neomet]

Never dropped a gun, but did forget to unlock my Ghost a few times.

Ah yes, the dreaded Ghost wedgie.

As much as my Tanfo sort of flops around in my Ghost I have to say if it is locked it ain't coming out.

[JThompson]

On a stage this year where you had to pick up a grenade off the ground that was right in front of you while kneeling and make an attempt to hit a wall about 20 yards away or it was a penalty. Myself and another shooter had back to back DQ's involving CR speed holsters.

CR holsters are my farvorite, they are fast and if properly adjusted, extremely safe while locked. They are just not adequate for every start postition in USPSA.

That about sums up how I feel. You need to know the limitations of the gear and make allowance for it.

[grandbagger]

never had a gun fall out of my limcat. if started sitting or kneeling or whatever position that requires me to move before drawing i always draw from locked holster, limcat is just a flip of a finger anyway.

[71Commander]

DQ today.

I was adjusting my ghost for the PC 627. I went to a match tonight with my non PC 625. The cant screw was loose. On the 1st stage after the LAMR, I hostered the gun, took my hand off, turned facing up range then.......

First thing I did when I got home was to set the holster back for the 625.

Oh well. Didn't waste any bullets.

[AlamoShooter]

Never dropped a gun, but did forget to unlock my Ghost a few times.

With the proper discipline and awareness of your holster, you shouldn't have a problem.

+1 to both of Matt's thoughts!

When re-holstering, I do not move, start walking or do anything until the gun is holster and locked. Remember the Timed part of our game is over, slow down and make sure it's in and locked.

+1 for me too. the times I have my best match or my Best stage is when I am Very carfull with the reholster , I may even leave my hand at the gun untill the range clear.

Old rules was dropped gun at any time was a DQ.

I like the Safariland , I like the paddle that keeps the muz off and away from the leg.

[XD Niner]

The pitfalls are mental mistakes.

Matt is absolutely correct as I proved yet again this past Saturday. We had a start that required moving (after the beep) while holding an object and with the unloaded pistol holstered. I was to dump the object in a trash can and then move to another barrel on which the magazine was laying followed by loading the gun and engaging the targets. I knew that my Open gun is unstable while moving fast when my Ghost holster isn't locked and still failed to lock it down. Why? Because I'm an IDIOT!! All I needed to do was to keep the pistol locked until I got rid of the object and could draw. It would not have slowed me down at all since I needed a few seconds to reach the second barrel anyway. However, I simply failed to think the process through and, therefore, DQ'd on the final stage of the day.

When locked no one short of King Kong is going to get that pistol free until the lock is flicked off. There are even two ways to move the lever to accomplish that very complicated action. There is absolutely nothing wrong with my Ghost holster. It was simply pilot error.

By the way, I have a very used, unreliable and not too bright brain for sale in the Classifieds. Hopefully some sucker will buy it to use as door stop.

Edited January 14, 2009 by XD Niner