SS 9 or 45?

[ajbarr]

What are people's thoughts on shooting 9 mm for single stack? I would think less recoil and larger capacity would be a huge advantage despite the point reduction for shooting minor.

Just wondering what people think.

Thanks

[zhunter]

It would be fun, but TOTALLY uncompetitive

[z40acp]

I think at major matches you should stick with major power, 2 extra rounds would not be that significant. But, I noticed a lot of the regular matches around here the 2 extra rounds would be a big advantage for the average { C } shooter. We shot a match on Sunday and 2 out of 4 stages there would be a difference. On 1 stage it would of saved 2 standing reloads and the other it would of made it so the reload could of been performed while you were moving.

Edited January 12, 2009 by z40acp

[G-ManBart]

For most folks it won't be competitive as they have more C and D hits than the top level folks so they're going to lose even more points.

I think that .40 loaded to major with a heavy bullet is pretty mild in a SS gun. It seems a bit easier to shoot than .45 loaded to the same PF, but it's not a big difference. I just don't see minor 9 being all that much an advantage over either a .40 or .45 loaded to something like 170pf....a little bit sure, but it's not huge. Maybe someone really small/petite (junior/women/older folks etc) who don't have as much hand strength might take advantage of this more.

Regardless, when shooting SS you need to approach it like Virginia count, get your hits and absolutely avoid extra and/or static reloads if at all possible. The extra two rounds will normally only help if you have to make up shots...and those waste time. You're better off slowing down and getting the hits the first time. Since the rules now limit the number of shots required from any one firing position you're not really gaining anything with two more rounds in the gun since you're going to reload on the move to the next position anyway. If you skip that reload you're going to wind up doing a static reload in the middle of the next array...bad idea.

Edited January 12, 2009 by G-ManBart

[MichiganShootist]

It depends on the level of the competition.... The speed and accuracy of the M and GM shooters in SS is such that they will kick ass with a 8 round major gun.

In local club level competiton and even at some state matches the 10 round minor set up can be a winner.

Having said that.... I don't think there is any gun more fun to shoot than a 9 mm 1911....especially with the new reliable mags from Tripp and Wilson.

[zhunter]

I am NO expert, but can't imaging a better gun than a 9mm SS for shooting steel

[Revopop]

If you were a real gamer, you'd have both and decide when you saw the stages.

[steel1212]

If you were a real gamer, you'd have both and decide when you saw the stages.

Now who would do such a thing

Everytime I look at a state match stage I think that to myself. I have NEVER seen stages that enough of them would lead me to believe that I could gain an advantage shooting 10 plus 1. I really want to shoot a state match shooting minor but my competive nature won't let me.

[The Antichrome]

2008 Single Stack Nat'ls: Not one minor power factor shooter in the top 100. (iirc)

But yes, a 9mm 1911 is a dream to shoot.

[Alan Meek]

2008 Single Stack Nat'ls: Not one minor power factor shooter in the top 100. (iirc)

But yes, a 9mm 1911 is a dream to shoot.

2008 Single Stack Classic/Nationals 270 shooters 12 shot minor. Highest finish with a minor SS was 40th next was 108.

[Carmoney]

Highest finish with a minor SS was 40th next was 108.

Thank you, Alan, for defending my 40th place finish at the 2008 Single Stack Nationals. I'm still waiting for the "Top Minor" trophy I earned with my .38 Super Kimber single stack!

It was fun, but this year I'm planning to switch back to major power factor. The way the scoring system works, it is nearly always a benefit to be scored major.

[Alan Meek]

Highest finish with a minor SS was 40th next was 108.

Thank you, Alan, for defending my 40th place finish at the 2008 Single Stack Nationals. I'm still waiting for the "Top Minor" trophy I earned with my .38 Super Kimber single stack!

It was fun, but this year I'm planning to switch back to major power factor. The way the scoring system works, it is nearly always a benefit to be scored major.

Your Welcome Mike,

Now for the bad news, which I am sure you already have done.

My quick analysis of the 2008 SSC Nats and you shooting minor vs major,

If you would have shot major with the same times you would have finished 31st.

Not an exact science but there would have been a difference of 39 match points.

Alan

[The Antichrome]

2008 Single Stack Nat'ls: Not one minor power factor shooter in the top 100. (iirc)

But yes, a 9mm 1911 is a dream to shoot.

2008 Single Stack Classic/Nationals 270 shooters 12 shot minor. Highest finish with a minor SS was 40th next was 108.

I stand corrected;-)

[Duane Thomas]

I'm still waiting for the "Top Minor" trophy I earned with my .38 Super Kimber single stack!

Actually - all joking aside - now that you mention it, I think a "Top Minor" award would be a great idea.

[Matt Cheely]

If you tend to miss a bit, the extra rounds can help. If you're an accurate shooter who doesn't waste ammo, go for the 45.

Top guys don't miss, so they shoot Major.

At the SS Nats, all the stages are specifically setup for 8 rounds. I don't think I even shot to slide lock once. All the array's tend to be 7 rounds or less.

[Carmoney]

Now for the bad news, which I am sure you already have done.

My quick analysis of the 2008 SSC Nats and you shooting minor vs major,

If you would have shot major with the same times you would have finished 31st.

Not an exact science but there would have been a difference of 39 match points.

Yep, that's how I figured it, too! By coincidence, my top finish at the SSC in the past few years was 31st place, shooting a .45. (On second thought, maybe it's not a coincidence after all!)

And Matt is exactly right--this particular match is definitely not the place to shoot minor, every year they make sure everything is 8+1 friendly. I never benefitted from those extra couple rounds. But I knew that going in, I just wanted to see how well I could do with my Super against the toughest competition I could find. Now I know.

I still maintain that there are still a couple matches every year where the minor Single Stack may give a slight advantage--those matches would be the ones that happen to have several stages that allow the 10+1 guns to avoid having to make standing reloads, and so forth.

But other than those rare circumstances, major Single Stack is the way to fly.

[John2A]

I have both a 40 and 9. 40 is picutred in my avatar. If I had it to do over again I would have just bought the 40 and then bought some urban tupperware for 9. But the 9 is bar far the favorite one I shoot.

[MisterB]

I shoot almost all matches with a 38 super single stack. I am a C class and my percentages would be higher if I shot major, no doubt. I choose to shoot minor because I like to shoot this particular gun. So, if you want to be the most competitive, "do as I say, not as I do." If you are a new competitor, major scoring or minor probably won't make much of a difference. As you progress, it will. If you are only going to have one single stack, and pocess a competitive nature, buy a major caliber gun.

If I remember my math correctly, at the 2008 SSC, if I had shot major instead of minor, with the same hits and time, I would have finished about 4.5% better score, about 28 places higher.

Edited January 14, 2009 by MisterB

[bgary]

What are people's thoughts on shooting 9 mm for single stack? I would think less recoil and larger capacity would be a huge advantage despite the point reduction for shooting minor.

Just one data-point, but... last season I shot one single-stack match, using a 9mm. After the match I poked through the EZwinscore data, and determined that if I had shot "major" - exact same hits, exact same times, but major - I would have landed 12 places higher in the results.

Now, granted, I'm a crappy bottom-of-B-class shooter, but... I thought that was interesting. And the next single-stack match I shoot, I'll be shooting major.

B

[z40acp]

Yes, bigger matches you need to shoot major. Yes, better skilled shooters should shoot major. But remember, of the USPSA membership that is classified, over half are C class or the bottom part of B class. The next time you shoot your regular monthly matches, look at the stages and compare if you were shooting 8 or 10 round mags. The 8 steel, they might need 9 shots. When you move 1 step to the right, they don't have the mag changed that fast. I am just saying that sometimes for the majority of regular shooters it might be better most of the time.

[al503]

'...if you shot the exact same times....'

My times in drills are consistently faster with my 9mm v. my .40 limited gun. Not saying that the difference in speed would overcome the major scoring difference but it wouldn't make the difference quite as dramatic (at least for me.)

[steel1212]

'...if you shot the exact same times....'

My times in drills are consistently faster with my 9mm v. my .40 limited gun. Not saying that the difference in speed would overcome the major scoring difference but it wouldn't make the difference quite as dramatic (at least for me.)

If you want to test the Major vs Minor theory set up a stage that has 4 paper and a popper. Now take some no shoots, hard cover etc and make the paper interesting. Say put a diagonal Hard cover, Half no shoot/half shoot, and a couple of wide open paper at distance with the steel some where in the middle. Now the Major PF guy can't miss, but the Minor guy can miss BUT better not hit to many Charlies with the half hardcover, long shots etc. Hell I might actually set this stage up for one of my matches then leave it up and shoot it minor and compare.

[Flexmoney]

Minor sucks.

[technetium-99m]

Just switched from prod to lim-10 and at the last match while eyeing my hits I looked at a charlie and thought "cool, only down one point, I like major." A big +1 to flex.

GT

[Zerwas]

I have an idea....how about minor 45acp?

heehee...I know my sense of humor is questionable.... anyway, the #'s seem to indicate shooting a minor pistol when everyone else is being scored major is a disadvantage for sure.

I don't shoot much SS, but if I did it would be with my TRP Professional 45acp. I recently had a chance to pop some shots off with my friends STI Trojan in 40 caliber. He used his same loads for his limited gun (180gr bullet loaded to 170-172pf) and I have to say I REALLY LIKED the feel of that impulse. If I were to decide what to shoot in SS division I would look real hard at the same STI 40 cal set up so I could perhaps use the same exact loads I use out of my limited pistol.

40 cal in SS is the proverbial "cats meow".