USPSA Multi gun Nationals in Las Vegas?

[Blockhead]

We finished getting everything back to Desert Sportsman's last night around 7:00 with Michael Voigt, Carl Schmidt, Larry Lebeau & myself getting the last of the steel and barrels put away by the light of our truck headlights. As hard as the work was at times, it was even more fun. There are a few folks I need to thank.

Thanks to Michael Voigt for giving us the chance to be involved and then the support to get the match done.

Thanks also to my good friends Larry Lebeau, Ron Sanders, Mike Nobles, Matt Lamph and Jerry Bonura. None of it would have happened without their hard work, constant moral support and passion for the sport.

Thanks to Carl Schmidt who spent the last 11 days on the ground leading our team from the front. I never saw him slow down or loose his cool. And then there's Chris Endersby who worked his butt off all week setting stages and then tearing them down on Sunday.

Special thanks to Linda Chico and her merry band of statisticians plus John Amidon, Dave Thomas, Matt Pickhardt, the RO's and the staff back at Sedrow working behind the scenes.

With all that said, we learned sooooo much. We know there is lots of room for improvement. I'm going to start a thread to get your comments. Feedback is a gift!!

Thanks to all of you that came to visit our town. I hope we get to see you again in 2010 along with some of your friend that couldn't make it this year.

Best Regards to all.

[outerlimits]

another thought on stage 1. being only 5' 8", i could not engage those flashers over the sign like many of my taller bros. i thought of sticking my bag in that spot and standing on it, but figured that was gay. but, having said that, what rule would prevent a shooter from gaining that type of advantage?

Edited October 28, 2009 by outerlimits

[lynn jones]

another thought on stage 1. being only 5' 8", i could not engage those flashers over the sign like many of my taller bros. i thought of sticking my bag in that spot and standing on it, but figured that was gay. but, having said that, what rule would prevent a shooter from gaining that type of advantage?

i've seen it done before for the really vertically challenged. no rule, just poor stage design.

lynn

[NMBOpen]

Lost/Misplaced: a pair of tan 30rd P-mags and Firebird coupler, last used on Stage 10, our last stage on Saturday. They haven't appeared in unpacking and reorganizing now that I'm home. Weren't at Stats when I checked during lunch Sunday.

[benelli2]

One suggestion for next year that I think is critical is to pull down the ropes around the prize table so everyone can see the generous prizes that the sponsors have provided! As it was very few had any idea of what the Sponsors put up, as no one was allowed near it until distribution started, so only the first folks got to see what all was up there, everyone else got to see what was left when it was their turn. Not what I am used to seeing at a major match, typically the prize table is shown off so everyone sees and knows what the Sponsors do to support the sport and we in turn can support them

my .02

[smokshwn]

Lost/Misplaced: a pair of tan 30rd P-mags and Firebird coupler, last used on Stage 10, our last stage on Saturday. They haven't appeared in unpacking and reorganizing now that I'm home. Weren't at Stats when I checked during lunch Sunday.

Tom, There was a pair like you describe left on stage 1 after we were done with our reshoot. Ken or Nancy may have picked them up...Good Luck Craig

[ken hebert]

Lost/Misplaced: a pair of tan 30rd P-mags and Firebird coupler, last used on Stage 10, our last stage on Saturday. They haven't appeared in unpacking and reorganizing now that I'm home. Weren't at Stats when I checked during lunch Sunday.

Tom, There was a pair like you describe left on stage 1 after we were done with our reshoot. Ken or Nancy may have picked them up...Good Luck Craig

Last I saw them the Lamberts were trying to find the owner. They are in transit to their casa at the moment, you might try them later tomorrow afternoon after they get there.

[ken hebert]

another thought on stage 1. being only 5' 8", i could not engage those flashers over the sign like many of my taller bros. i thought of sticking my bag in that spot and standing on it, but figured that was gay. but, having said that, what rule would prevent a shooter from gaining that type of advantage?

i've seen it done before for the really vertically challenged. no rule, just poor stage design.

lynn

I'll say it was maybe a stage design error that was taken advantage of by those of us of a taller stature.. If it makes you feel any better I didnt get first round hits on all of them

Hey, this year was better than last, right? Just think how much better the '10 match will be.

[D.Hayden]

another thought on stage 1. being only 5' 8", i could not engage those flashers over the sign like many of my taller bros. i thought of sticking my bag in that spot and standing on it, but figured that was gay. but, having said that, what rule would prevent a shooter from gaining that type of advantage?

There's gotta be a rule against it somewher, modifying the stage or something.. next thing you know people will be bringing ladders to shoot over all the barricades..

I'd let you do it if you took the 20% handicap penalty...

[outerlimits]

another thought on stage 1. being only 5' 8", i could not engage those flashers over the sign like many of my taller bros. i thought of sticking my bag in that spot and standing on it, but figured that was gay. but, having said that, what rule would prevent a shooter from gaining that type of advantage?

There's gotta be a rule against it somewher, modifying the stage or something.. next thing you know people will be bringing ladders to shoot over all the barricades..

I'd let you do it if you took the 20% handicap penalty...

hey dave-wait till the thanksgiving match...every port will be LOW!

[NMBOpen]

Lost/Misplaced: a pair of tan 30rd P-mags and Firebird coupler, last used on Stage 10, our last stage on Saturday. They haven't appeared in unpacking and reorganizing now that I'm home. Weren't at Stats when I checked during lunch Sunday.

Tom, There was a pair like you describe left on stage 1 after we were done with our reshoot. Ken or Nancy may have picked them up...Good Luck Craig

Last I saw them the Lamberts were trying to find the owner. They are in transit to their casa at the moment, you might try them later tomorrow afternoon after they get there.

We shoot at the same clubs locally, so no problem hooking up. Thanks, Ken and Craig. Looking forward to the next outing!

[D.Hayden]

hey dave-wait till the thanksgiving match...every port will be LOW!

They always are.. although for you and Chris.. they just seem normal ....

[outerlimits]

hey dave-wait till the thanksgiving match...every port will be LOW!

They always are.. although for you and Chris.. they just seem normal ....

practice yer shotgun reloads...prone...did i say alot? 22 rounds, baby...all prone. oh yea, then u get up and run a ways with a hot pistol and then shoot out to 360 with a rifle. oh yea, then back to shotgun for 12 slugs.

Edited October 29, 2009 by outerlimits

[Doug S]

One sour note: I think that most of us would like to see more vendors set up displays, we do spend alot of money on thier products and would like to see them at the Nationals. Only having 3 vendors was disappointing. I got to shoot the DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge and they had alot more vendors and even had a gunsmith that helped several shooters with gun troubles (at no charge). We can't get alot of competition gear in our local area, so it would have been nice to be able to get some there.

RO's, you did an OUTSTANDING job. Hope we get the same crew in 2010.

Thank you, to all the people that made the 2009 Multi-gun Nationals happen, it was a blast.

I am looking forward to coming back next year and would be honored to shoot with the folks on Squad 2 again! We had the best Squad Mom ever!!!!

[GentlemanJim]

The number of venders USPSA attracts ...is related to how they charge them for coming.

USPSA and Multigun could use a little reform in several areas.

All in all this was a very good match...may have been the best they have done yet.

We plan to go again next year

Jim

[Charles Bond]

The number of venders USPSA attracts ...is related to how they charge them for coming.

USPSA and Multigun could use a little reform in several areas.

All in all this was a very good match...may have been the best they have done yet.

We plan to go again next year

Jim

At least to me you are preaching to the choir. For all of you who want to see more vendors at our nationals, contact your AD.

[slowsure]

So the USPSA Multigun nationals for 2009 are over and in the books. I would like to here from the shooters that went and have had some time to reflect.

Was it WAY better than last year?

Best USPSA Multigun ever held?

Better than a Area USPSA multigun match?

Just courious

[outerlimits]

So the USPSA Multigun nationals for 2009 are over and in the books. I would like to here from the shooters that went and have had some time to reflect.

Was it WAY better than last year?

Best USPSA Multigun ever held?

Better than a Area USPSA multigun match?

Just courious

I thought it was good-thought 2006 in Albany was better. Didn't make last year so can't compare. Only a couple stages were not up to nationals standards. Stage 1 needed some QC. I do think the range was great and I hope they come back. I know I'll get lit up for this, but I do think the stages need a bit more review. RO's were all great (with one old exception). I'll go again, but I'll probably be looking at the "outlaw" matches from now on.

[ken hebert]

I was disapointed that there were no mixed slug/shot stages. All stages with the scattergun boiled down to a reloading contest and not so much a test of shooting skills. And yeah, stage 1 could have stood some QC, but thats been beaten into the ground already..

For a minimum of a $225 match fee, I kinda think that lunch could have been included. Instead we paid $11 a day for a hot dog bun with luke warm shredded meat, small bag of chips, one cookie and a not-so-cold cold drink...

So why exactly should we the members have to hound our area directors for vendors at nationals...? I would assume that the folks who run USPSA and set up nationals would be on top of that particular situation...

Edited November 2, 2009 by ken hebert

[tgibson]

So why exactly should we the members have to hound our area directors for vendors at nationals...? I would assume that the folks who run USPSA and set up nationals would be on top of that particular situation...

This is just one guys opinion, but I can tell you why MGM wasn't really excited about showing up. LACK OF RECOGNITION AND SALES! Most of you probably don't know this, but MGM was a Bronze sponsor of all three of the USPSA nationls. I'd love to know how many of you knew this based on what you heard at the matches. I can't say we didn't have any sales at the matches, but for the most part it was pretty slow.

The long and short of it is the sponsors come and set up their booth/tables and really only get about five hours of exposure. One hour at lunch for three days and a couple of hours between the end of the match and the awards IF the awards are at the range. I have to tell you, it was pretty brutal. This is probably the last USPSA nationals we will ever sponsor.

Adios,

TG

[ap3]

Answer to the questions:

I didn't go last year, so I can't compare but I thought it was a much better match than the last time I went to Vegas for the Nationals although the prize table doesn't even come close to the outlaw matches.

Not the best multi-gun ever held, but serious improvement for USPSA. I would say it was one of the best USPSA mult-gun I have been to. The stages had a lot of diversity: multiple flying clays, targets with pistol or shotgun option, more than one long range stage, generally a good skill mix. Stage one did need some QC in a bad way, but it sure was great to be able to shoot at that distance.

A little bit better than Area matches because the competition was tougher, and the venue as well as town is very good for a multi-gun match.

General: The flow of the match went very good with Friday and Saturday had us finishing early. I believe we could have done the match in 2 days easy. Parking and being able to move about the range was great. A lot of CQB stages which is different from a lot of outlaw matches, so I enjoyed the different approach. Pre-match seemed very well organized as well, and $11 for lunch was almost buffet cost in town.

I think it is VERY important to hold the Multi-gun national in the same place for at least 3 years. All of the outlaw matches struggled with issues the first year but steadily improved year by year, and if we keep moving it(USPSA) around then there is no learning curve for improvement. I remember the Midwest 3-gun match hosted by FN was so bad the first year I didn't go back for two years. Now, it is one of the best matches to go to for 3-gun. I believe as youbuild consistency into the match attendance will grow.

Now let's be honest about something, we all say we are not in it for the prize table, but after putting out about $1,000 to shoot the match it sure is nice to be able to walk away with something of decent value that is about equal to your entry fee. All of us brag about the prize tables at Tri-gun and Midwest, and we don't about Kentucky Multi-gun but that is a $75 match shot in one day.

On a disturbing note

I watched from the parking lot an RO visually track a guy that was headed to an unguarded pre-load table that was facing into a berm thinking he could bag his gun there, and when the shooter took his gun out he DQ'd him. The RO had a ton of time to stop the shooters innocent mistake, but instead would rather have DQ'd him. When we shot the stage the same RO(sitting in his chair) said I didn't deserve a hit on a swinger because he HEARD a round go into a barrel. The target had 3 holes in it. These guys give our hard working RO's a bad rap.

[LadyinBlue]

Lost/Misplaced: a pair of tan 30rd P-mags and Firebird coupler, last used on Stage 10, our last stage on Saturday. They haven't appeared in unpacking and reorganizing now that I'm home. Weren't at Stats when I checked during lunch Sunday.

Tom, There was a pair like you describe left on stage 1 after we were done with our reshoot. Ken or Nancy may have picked them up...Good Luck Craig

Last I saw them the Lamberts were trying to find the owner. They are in transit to their casa at the moment, you might try them later tomorrow afternoon after they get there.

We shoot at the same clubs locally, so no problem hooking up. Thanks, Ken and Craig. Looking forward to the next outing!

Hey Tom..we are dissecting the inventory nightmare now. We were delayed in getting home because of the truck breaking down in AZ and driving through the snow storm. We carried 4 sets of gear back with us and the sorting process is easier said than done.

I thought it was on stage 1 after the reshoot that I found a double p-mag...Jim said he thought it was after stage 11 on Sunday morning that he saw one was left on the table. It's all just a blur at this moment in time...

I'll let you know when I get to the bottom of the pile what I find.

[Tyro Shooter]

My thoughts a week or so after . . . these are not complaints. . Just observations . . . and a recommendation or two.

From what info & rumors I was privy to in June until the morning of the 22nd . . . I feel that the range staff and local set up crew did a heroic job for pulling this out of the fire. . . I enjoyed the stages and the match as a whole. (Charley Brown you and your local crew should be commended. . .)

I was disappointed in the “Vendor” area. . . until I came home and talked to one or two vendors who if they were to go would have had to sell two of everything they had to every shooter signed up just to cover the cost of a table. . .

$11.00 lunch?. . Nothing that a quick trip to the market prior to the drive to the range couldn’t fix.. . I mean hey I would love to support the locals with my business . . . but I also had to buy my own ammo, gas, hotel, and match fees as well

Ice water on every stage . . . Coolers refilled two or three times a day. . A small gesture but very nice touch and greatly appreciated.

And the pre load & Safe tables...

how hard would it be to go to the party store and buy a few rolls of Red & Green cheap vinyl table cloths & some packing tape and wrap one table on each bay red for “Preload” and green for “Safe”? ? ? ?

it seems to me that a shooters meeting that outlined the “House Rules” explaining this would have cleared up a little bit of confusion and . . . just perhaps . . .eliminated a few unintentional DQ’s,

. . . . “but at this level you should know better” they cried, . . . . and yet at this level I would expect the RO’s to be consistent and not brag about how many people gotten DQed by Sunday morning as well. . . (That was just one group on one stage) . . . (As a whole I found them to be an excellent group of guys and gals.)

The printed speech that was given prior to each stage would have been a great time to point out what was safe and acceptable for the set up and layout of each stage. . . . And was only done maybe 5-6 times over the three days. . . . Again. . A slight inconsistency I felt that was below a National level event.

The posts here concerning questions about how to make clay flippers more consistent and the arbitration process concerning “Stage 1” proved that there is merit in a 77 page rule book. . .it does work . . . it’s just at the time it seemed to be a pain

The prize table . . . . Ok that one has been beat to death here and needs no further comment. . Least of all from me.

“Would I go back???” . . . . . . If it was in the same venue . . . I do believe that next year they might just get a few of the kinks out.

[outerlimits]

we did observe a rather bizare safety table, i think it was on stage 8 or 9. it was around table marked "safe area". a few of us walked up there and went "i don't think so"!

[LadyinBlue]

Lost/Misplaced: a pair of tan 30rd P-mags and Firebird coupler, last used on Stage 10, our last stage on Saturday. They haven't appeared in unpacking and reorganizing now that I'm home. Weren't at Stats when I checked during lunch Sunday.

Tom, There was a pair like you describe left on stage 1 after we were done with our reshoot. Ken or Nancy may have picked them up...Good Luck Craig

Last I saw them the Lamberts were trying to find the owner. They are in transit to their casa at the moment, you might try them later tomorrow afternoon after they get there.

We shoot at the same clubs locally, so no problem hooking up. Thanks, Ken and Craig. Looking forward to the next outing!

Hey Tom..we are dissecting the inventory nightmare now. We were delayed in getting home because of the truck breaking down in AZ and driving through the snow storm. We carried 4 sets of gear back with us and the sorting process is easier said than done.

I thought it was on stage 1 after the reshoot that I found a double p-mag...Jim said he thought it was after stage 11 on Sunday morning that he saw one was left on the table. It's all just a blur at this moment in time...

I'll let you know when I get to the bottom of the pile what I find.

Hey Tom...your double P-Mag turned up in Randy's pile of gear...after talking to him on the phone we figured out it is the one he picked up stage 11...

We'll bring it to the match Saturday