saibot Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 During my 2nd match this weekend where I signed up as Production, I was informed that I was in the wrong class with my M&P9 with 17rd mags and I should be in Limited class. If production only allows 10 rd mags, why even have it since it's really no different from the Limited 10. I'm sure I'm just missing something. What's the difference? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 in production: no mag well minor power factor only holster and mag pouches behind hip bone no external modifications L10: anything you can use in limited is legal for L10 IIRC L10 was created so the states with restrictive gun laws (capacity limit of 10 rds) could play using what they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 I was informed that I was in the wrong class with my M&P9 with 17rd mags and I should be in Limited class. You can't load over 10 rounds in the mag in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted December 16, 2008 Author Share Posted December 16, 2008 So if I use a unmodified M&P9 in Limited doesn't that put me at a competitive disadvantage? Thanks for the great info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 Here is a basic summary of the divisions: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 No external mods besides grip tape and aftermarket iron sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted December 16, 2008 Share Posted December 16, 2008 (edited) So if I use a unmodified M&P9 in Limited doesn't that put me at a competitive disadvantage? Thanks for the great info! yes as you would be scored minor....just load your mags to 10 and one in the gun when allowed and run that gun in production. We sometimes suggest to the newer shooters to shoot in Limited and load up their mags so they don't have to do but maybe one reload per stage. Cuts down on the DQ factor and less for them to think about. Edited December 16, 2008 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Hepworth Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 During my 2nd match this weekend where I signed up as Production, I was informed that I was in the wrong class with my M&P9 with 17rd mags and I should be in Limited class. If production only allows 10 rd mags, why even have it since it's really no different from the Limited 10.I'm sure I'm just missing something. What's the difference? Thanks! perhaps the person who told you this thought you were shooting .40,...which would then make sense of his advice. SHooting 9mm in production and only loading 10rds in your mags is a good platform for production division. Even if you were shooting .40,...in L10,..you would still only load 10rds in your mags....(+1 rd in the chamber). did you wear you holster and mag pouches behind the hip bones?? If not,..you would be shooting in L10 regardless of calibre. It is advantageous to shoot .40 in L10 due to the scoring structure. .40 scores major,...and 9mm scores minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsykes Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Sounds like they were saying that if you wanted to load the mags all the way up, you'd need to run in Limited class because production only allows 10 rounds in the mag. Limited and Limited 10 are the same as far as pistol mods go, but you only load 10 in the mag for Limited 10. Both allow for more modifications than in the production class. So, what you should be doing is only loading 10 rounds in your stock mags and then shoot production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 There were some guys at a recent match shooting Production that filled their mags up beyond the 10 round capacity limit for Production division. Since they already shot a couple stages I had to change their score sheet to reflect the division change and explained to them why. They were cool with it and started loading to 10 just so they could get the proper practice for the division they would be shooting in in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saibot Posted December 19, 2008 Author Share Posted December 19, 2008 Thanks all for the great information! I was told by my friend that I was wearing my mag pouch and holster a little too far forward. I didn't realize that was a production only thing. Knowing the rules now I'm curious what class you all suggest I (with my 9mm) compete in and why? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Production Load 10 rounds and go. Make sure you have your gear in the correct place and everything is legal for Production Division. There is an appendix in the rule book where it goes into detail and the rule book is available online if you don't have a copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 It comes down to a choice based on the equipment you have and the field you want to play with. My wife has an M&P 9mm and a DOH Bladetech. She's a new shooter. the 9 is at a disadvantage in any other division than production because of PF. ALL shooters are scored minor in production regardless of caliber so at least you are on a level playing field. BUT because it was capped at 10 rounds and I didn't want her to have to worry about doing too many reloads, we loaded her to capacity and had her in Limited Minor. At some point when she's more comfortable shooting (and more competitive) she'll probably move to production. BUT it means she'll have to drop the DOH too. A lot of the divisions represent changes to technology and political climate. I.e. the single stack guys wanting to shoot a stock .45 (mostly) and not feel outgunned by the guys with 20 rnd magazines... L10 for the guys in NJ and CA etc.. To me I see each division as a challenge and opportunity to play with different rules. Pick yer posion and have fun with it. Who knows there may be a L-ONE in our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 At some point when she's more comfortable shooting (and more competitive) she'll probably move to production. BUT it means she'll have to drop the DOH too. Lee, she can keep the DOH in production..... SS would be a different story.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 At some point when she's more comfortable shooting (and more competitive) she'll probably move to production. BUT it means she'll have to drop the DOH too. Lee, she can keep the DOH in production..... SS would be a different story.... Nik's right. Due to the anatomical difference between a man and a woman, women are allowed to use the DOH in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Not limited just to wimmin in Production: From Appendix D4 - Production Division: 20 Holster restrictions •Suitable for everyday use. “Race gun” type holster prohibited. •May not be manufactured or cut lower than, and must cover the slide up to, ½” below the ejection port (belt slide “Yaqui” type holster exempt). •Revolver holsters open no lower than halfway down the cylinder. (That rulebook is a pesky, and apparently elusive little thing, ain't it? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 (edited) Women are also allowed to use the DOH type holster in Single Stack as long as they meet the metric outlined in the division. And once again, it is not a class it is a division. Words mean things. Edited December 19, 2008 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 There were some guys at a recent match shooting Production that filled their mags up beyond the 10 round capacity limit for Production division. Since they already shot a couple stages I had to change their score sheet to reflect the division change and explained to them why. They were cool with it and started loading to 10 just so they could get the proper practice for the division they would be shooting in in the future. I assume that you bumped them into Open Division. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 There were some guys at a recent match shooting Production that filled their mags up beyond the 10 round capacity limit for Production division. Since they already shot a couple stages I had to change their score sheet to reflect the division change and explained to them why. They were cool with it and started loading to 10 just so they could get the proper practice for the division they would be shooting in in the future. I assume that you bumped them into Open Division. Jim Your assumption would be correct Sir. Mark Ramsey is a good teacher. I have been studying the rule book a little in order to learn, but most everything I know thus far has come from paying attention and listening to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 There were some guys at a recent match shooting Production that filled their mags up beyond the 10 round capacity limit for Production division. Since they already shot a couple stages I had to change their score sheet to reflect the division change and explained to them why. They were cool with it and started loading to 10 just so they could get the proper practice for the division they would be shooting in in the future. I assume that you bumped them into Open Division. Jim Your assumption would be correct Sir. Mark Ramsey is a good teacher. I have been studying the rule book a little in order to learn, but most everything I know thus far has come from paying attention and listening to him. Aw, shucks. You're ahead of a lot of people, Bobby. At least you're making an attempt to improve your understanding of the sport (which will ultimately benefit you most of all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Rock Production. It sounds like you have all the right gear, and your pistol and caliber will not put you at a disadvantage. Trust me...you can shoot your ass off in a major match shooting minor and do well...but when your competition is being scored major, you are at a significant disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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