Dropped gun while holstering

[George Jones]

I have no idea how that played out later and I do not subcribe to either side of the debate.

As Troy stated, the rules may now be different.

Tony

Troy didn't say the rule may now be different. He said it is different. And Troy is usually correct.

The rule dealing with the end of the stage was changed for the 2008 rulebook. The reason for the change was to more specifically define the end of the COF at a point under the RO's control (not the shooter's).

In 2005, you were (IMO) correctly saved from a DQ due to the uncertainty of the exact point at which your hand was removed from the holster gun. That event prompted a review of the rule so that a similar future event could be more clearly ruled. It also makes sense that the end of the COF rightfully belongs under the RO's control, just like the start does.

We have a saying in my business: RTFM. I think it means "Read That Fantastic Manual".

That's particularly important when we have a change in the rulebook. It does take some effort to learn all the new stuff and the changes. I add my recommendation for the RO Seminar, even for currently certified ROs who have already seen several rulebook colors and may need to update their long-standing procedures or assumptions which may now be invalid.

[LPatterson]

Troy said the rules ARE different now not may be.

We are going into our second year with these rules so it would be a good if people would start reading before quoting off the top of your head.

Edit George has quicker fingers than me.

Edited December 11, 2008 by LPatterson

[George Jones]

Edit George has quicker fingers than me.

Except for the trigger finger probably.

[LPatterson]

Edit George has quicker fingers than me.

Except for the trigger finger probably.

George, I am shooting Revo in D class so your trigger finger is probably quicker than mine.

[kgunz11]

I plan to take a Level I RO course as soon as one is anywhere close to me. Would like to find one within 250 miles or so. Is there a Calender on the NROI website? I wasn't able to find one.

[38superman]

I only used the word "may" because:

I did want to acknowledge that the rules had changed.

I have no reason to doubt it.

However, I hadn't read that particular rule personally, and I didn't want anyone to think I was trying to confirm or deny it.

I stand corrected. The rules HAVE changed.

Tony

HAVE a nice day.

Edited December 11, 2008 by 38superman

[XRe]

Almost agreed...

IPSC Rule 8.3.7.3 If the gun proves to be clear, the competitor must holster his handgun. Once the competitor's hands are clear of the holstered handgun, the course of fire is deemed to have ended.

Definately DQ!

For IPSC, yes. For USPSA, no.

[George Jones]

I plan to take a Level I RO course as soon as one is anywhere close to me. Would like to find one within 250 miles or so. Is there a Calender on the NROI website? I wasn't able to find one.

Yes, it's under the "Seminars" link on the left.

http://www.uspsa.org/dw/nroiClasses.php

[kgunz11]

I plan to take a Level I RO course as soon as one is anywhere close to me. Would like to find one within 250 miles or so. Is there a Calender on the NROI website? I wasn't able to find one.

Yes, it's under the "Seminars" link on the left.

http://www.uspsa.org/dw/nroiClasses.php

Thanks Sir!

ETA: Wow, just looked, nothing anywhere close to me

Edited December 11, 2008 by kgunz11

[Lee King]

You also may float it out to MDs and Section Coordinators. I don't believe the seminar I took was initially on the schedule. Our section coordinator and Linda Chico drummed up enough interest to book one in our area.

[Alan Meek]

I plan to take a Level I RO course as soon as one is anywhere close to me. Would like to find one within 250 miles or so. Is there a Calender on the NROI website? I wasn't able to find one.

Yes, it's under the "Seminars" link on the left.

http://www.uspsa.org/dw/nroiClasses.php

Thanks Sir!

ETA: Wow, just looked, nothing anywhere close to me

Bobby,

I am going to schedule an RO Seminar for in the VA MD area, haven't locked down exactly where either Fredericksburg or Baltimore. I will know more after the 1st.

Alan

[kgunz11]

I plan to take a Level I RO course as soon as one is anywhere close to me. Would like to find one within 250 miles or so. Is there a Calender on the NROI website? I wasn't able to find one.

Yes, it's under the "Seminars" link on the left.

http://www.uspsa.org/dw/nroiClasses.php

Thanks Sir!

ETA: Wow, just looked, nothing anywhere close to me

Bobby,

I am going to schedule an RO Seminar for in the VA MD area, haven't locked down exactly where either Fredericksburg or Baltimore. I will know more after the 1st.

Alan

I am 12 hours from Fredericksburg VA and even further to MD. A little outside of my grasp.

What would be awesome is if George or some other NROI folks were going to SHOT and was willing to do one there. Probably too late in the game to coordinate one of those.

Sorry for the thread drift guys.

Edited December 11, 2008 by kgunz11

[Jim Norman]

There is one special command. Allowed only for one person. It is very very important that this command NEVER be used for anyone else. It is...

(say it with me George)

Slide Forward.

It is just so much fun to watch George shuffle along holding his gun up in front of him.

George, we really do love you here..

Jim

Edited December 11, 2008 by Jim Norman

[George Jones]

George, we really do love you here..

Jim

Tough love!

And you're the only one who can get away with that command.

(I can't scowl when I'm laughing)

[Flexmoney]

Anybody can schedule a class.

[kgunz11]

Anybody can schedule a class.

True, but you need 20 students or $800 and a USPSA affiliated club for a Level I class. I guess I'll shoot Cindy Gnoyes an email and see if she has enough interest in her area (much larger than mine) to justify trying to schedule a class.

[wgnoyes]

There is one special command. Allowed only for one person. It is very very important that this command NEVER be used for anyone else. It is...

(say it with me George)

Slide Forward.

It is just so much fun to watch George shuffle along holding his gun up in front of him.

Then watch what he does when you try saying "Drop the Slide"

[JThompson]

Anybody can schedule a class.

True, but you need 20 students or $800 and a USPSA affiliated club for a Level I class. I guess I'll shoot Cindy Gnoyes an email and see if she has enough interest in her area (much larger than mine) to justify trying to schedule a class.

Not really... you can have less and they might even kick in cash to help pay the instructor. It depends... call and speak with them.

I agree... even if you have been certed for many years, take the class. If not at least download summary of differences from 04-08 here: http://www.uspsa.org/rules/2004-2008%20Rul...Differences.pdf

It will make it easier on all of us if you know the new rules rather that argue about it on the range. That does nothing but create tension and slow the match down.

[George Jones]

Not really... you can have less and they might even kick in cash to help pay the instructor.

Just to make sure someone doesn't get the wrong impression.....

The instructors do not get paid. Their travel time, the time spent teaching the classes (including correspondence), and a whole lot of time spent grading the tests are not compensated.

The only thing the instructors receive is reimbursement from USPSA for their travel costs (with receipts). Their meals and overnight accomodations are provided by the class (or reimbursed).

For some of us, the days we spend traveling and teaching classes either cost us paydays or vacation time.

But none of us are complaining..... we volunteered.

[John Baier]

Story time;

the story I'm about to tell is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.

I attended a local match a month or so ago right after receiving my shiny new RM badge. I just came off working three nationals and was looking forward to just relaxing and "shooting" the match. I was all set with pasters in hand and a relaxed smile on my face. First stage of the day and I was the first shooter of the squad. I was planning on running the RO when it was his time to shoot. Well, everything was going perfectly, the other shooters were score keeping and pasting targets telling me to just relax and take it easy. Everyone shot the stage and then it was the RO's turn. He finished shooting the stage and has he was holstering his handgun it fell to the ground. We both looked at the handgun laying on the ground, knowing what it meant. Needless to say, my day of relaxation was over and the poor RO headed home with ammo still in his bag. I did have to point out to a few shooters where in the rulebook it states when the course of fire has ended. The RO in question was a good sport about it and knew exactly what rule he broke.

~John

[Gary Stevens]

Congratulations John. I know you will make a fine addition to the RM group.

Gary

[John Baier]

Thanks Gary!

[JThompson]

Not really... you can have less and they might even kick in cash to help pay the instructor.

Just to make sure someone doesn't get the wrong impression.....

The instructors do not get paid. Their travel time, the time spent teaching the classes (including correspondence), and a whole lot of time spent grading the tests are not compensated.

The only thing the instructors receive is reimbursement from USPSA for their travel costs (with receipts). Their meals and overnight accomodations are provided by the class (or reimbursed).

For some of us, the days we spend traveling and teaching classes either cost us paydays or vacation time.

But none of us are complaining..... we volunteered.

Thanks George, I didn't mean it to sound like that. What I meant was they can help defer some of the cost associated with a course if there are not enough attending to cover it... at least that's what I've heard.

[JayWord]

Not really... you can have less and they might even kick in cash to help pay the instructor.

Just to make sure someone doesn't get the wrong impression.....

The instructors do not get paid. Their travel time, the time spent teaching the classes (including correspondence), and a whole lot of time spent grading the tests are not compensated.

The only thing the instructors receive is reimbursement from USPSA for their travel costs (with receipts). Their meals and overnight accomodations are provided by the class (or reimbursed).

For some of us, the days we spend traveling and teaching classes either cost us paydays or vacation time.

But none of us are complaining..... we volunteered.

Thanks George, I didn't mean it to sound like that. What I meant was they can help defer some of the cost associated with a course if there are not enough attending to cover it... at least that's what I've heard.

There is a local course where USPSA does not pay for travel and the club pays all expenses. This works good if there is an Instructor who lives close to your clubs. Thankfully, we have two in the Chicago area so the Southern Wisconsin and Northern Illinios and Indiana Clubs can have do classes with lower numbers. I have a 6 hour rule. If I can drive there in 6 hours or less I will drive and not fly . By the time you drive to O'Hare, park, check in and fly, you will waste up to 4 hours each way. Parking is up to $80.00 for a weekend.

Jay