7 & 8 Shots, suggestions **Poll added**

[Patrick Sweeney]

OK, as brought up in the ICORE subforum, wheelguns with 7 &/or 8 shots are now relatively common. (At least you don't have to fabricate them from the ground up. anymore.)

Assuming we can discuss this as rational adults (we are, after all, revolver shooters) keep in mind one thing: any time in the past when there has been a capacity disparity, there have been cries of "obsoleting equipment" and "equipment race."

Jerry will kick ass regardless of capacity. Of that we can be sure. What might we do, to allow 7 & 8 shot revolvers, that would not create the impression of an equipment race? Can we?

One idea that comes to mind is to allow "over 6" revolvers, but limit them to Minor.

What does the rotational hivemind think?

Edited February 25, 2010 by Flexmoney
To add poll.

[lynn jones]

more is better.

lynn

[Alwaystryin]

Do what single stack did more than 8 = minor. Revolver equivalent is More than 6 = minor.

Although no one will ever take the major/minor scoring hit for more than 6.

OK, as brought up in the ICORE subforum, wheelguns with 7 &/or 8 shots are now relatively common. (At least you don't have to fabricate them from the ground up. anymore.)

Assuming we can discuss this as rational adults (we are, after all, revolver shooters) keep in mind one thing: any time in the past when there has been a capacity disparity, there have been cries of "obsoleting equipment" and "equipment race."

Jerry will kick ass regardless of capacity. Of that we can be sure. What might we do, to allow 7 & 8 shot revolvers, that would not create the impression of an equipment race? Can we?

One idea that comes to mind is to allow "over 6" revolvers, but limit them to Minor.

What does the rotational hivemind think?

[jmax]

Patrick,

I agree completely as we now shoot our 8 round revolvers in production class as minor caliber but technology has moved on to higher capacity revolvers and I feel that they should be allowed to shoot as minor revolver.

[Tom E]

Put them in single stack. 145 PF for major (Somewhat equal felt recoil compared to a major 1911). "Race gun" holsters allowed (A 5" revo has a lot more barrel to get clear of the holster than a 5" 1911). Would be interesting. The SS guys might not like it.

[Rogan]

Naw, let's make an open revolver class. Anything that isn't a stock type 6 shot as the current rules stipulate falls into open class. I'm a limited class ICORE shooter and don't use an optic, but I would gladly shoot against the optic crowd and use my 8 shot in USPSA, if there was a place for it. Right now, I really don't have a place in USPSA unless I switch guns. That's not too bad, since a man only needs one more gun, but I prefer to shoot my 8 shot.

[slflr]

How about limiting the dia of the cyl to 1.715"? Then we could make some of those neat go, no-go gauges like the bottom feeders have. Load and shoot as many rounds as you like as long as you can cram them into the max dia cyl.

[Revopop]

Do what single stack did more than 8 = minor. Revolver equivalent is More than 6 = minor.

Although no one will ever take the major/minor scoring hit for more than 6.

OK, as brought up in the ICORE subforum, wheelguns with 7 &/or 8 shots are now relatively common. (At least you don't have to fabricate them from the ground up. anymore.)

Assuming we can discuss this as rational adults (we are, after all, revolver shooters) keep in mind one thing: any time in the past when there has been a capacity disparity, there have been cries of "obsoleting equipment" and "equipment race."

Jerry will kick ass regardless of capacity. Of that we can be sure. What might we do, to allow 7 & 8 shot revolvers, that would not create the impression of an equipment race? Can we?

One idea that comes to mind is to allow "over 6" revolvers, but limit them to Minor.

What does the rotational hivemind think?

I like this idea. I think the ultimate awesomeness for USPSA Revolver is the 625 (the 610 would be the penultimate) and will remain so no matter what we decide, but it would be a way for people who already have a revolver that isn't a 625 or who use a 7 or 8 shooter for steel or ICORE to dip a toe into USPSA Revolver and get hooked, without feeling like there's no way they could win a match.

It's all about inclusion, right? Doesn't Revolver division need all the shooters it can get?

[Carmoney]

I have always been curious about the idea of allowing the 8-shot revolvers for USPSA, but limiting them to minor power factor. Each platform (6-shot major and 8-shot minor) would have both advantages and disadvantages, and in the end I think it would be very close to a wash. At matches where the stage designers tend to think in terms of 8-shot arrays (and yes, you do see this quite a lot) the advantage might accrue to the 8-shooters. Still, a 625 with RN ammo will always reload faster (on average) than any 8-shot revolver, and the difference between major and minor scoring is pretty big.

We have seen in Single Stack division that the top shooters almost all shoot major .40/45, rather than minor .38Super/9mm, and will happily give up the two extra rounds in order to have major scoring. There would be more of an advantage with an 8-shot revolver, though--it's a 33% increase in ammo capacity over a 6-shot gun, and like I mentioned above, you see an awful lot of targets set up in 8-shot arrays....

Would it bring in lots of additional revolver shooters? I doubt it. I like the concept better than adding an Open Revo division (sorry Rogan!) which would only split our small numbers down even further. I'm also not at all sold on the idea of including 8-shoot revolvers in with Single-Stack (sorry Tom E), yeah sure, you might win local matches here and there against a bunch of scrubs, but any decent 1911 shooter will handily prevail on reload speed alone. I'm pretty steady with an 8-shot revolver, but in a USPSA match with anything meaningful on the line I'd grab one of my 1911s every time if that were the game.

Now--this is all fun beer talk, but let's not forget that one of the real attractions of shooting in USPSA Revolver Division is that we have largely factored out the "equipment race" (leaving Revo as the purest available test of shooting talent, perhaps?) and are all shooting essentially the same gun. Hell, on Squad 1 at Nationals I think we were all shooting 5" 625s--we could have darn near put our guns in a big bag and everybody close their eyes and pick one out randomly and it wouldn't have changed the results much.

[Carmoney]

I also might point out that this conversation was going on when I first tuned in to the BE forum back in 2004. This is not a new concept.

[steel1212]

I see a lot of places for 8 shoot revos....like production and limited 10. I shoot with a guy that actually does quite well in production with his 8 shoot 38 super. Now will he be competitive at the majors....no but he has fun at local matches. My theory is if you have it shoot it. Get what you need to be competitive down the road.

[Airedale]

7/8 shot iron sight revolvers scored minor sounds like fun.

Keep it in revo division.

Dave

[Bubber]

Depending on course design the 8 shot would be a big advantage over the 6 shot even if the 8 shot is scored minor. Depending on the stage design the two could be a wash. And depending on the stage design the advantage could be the Major scoring, (close targets or upper A B zones where a minor scoring shooter would have to accept 2 ponts down per shot. I would just like to see more participation in Revolver. Only in OKC Gun Club do I get to shoot with and against other revo shooters. And they are pretty good and getting better. Last month we had a revo shooter go Open because he forgot where he was in the shot count. After the match I factored in his times and hit factors and gave him a 20 point penalty for firing 2 shots over the 6 shot limit. He wold have won the division. With me, Ken, and Stan comming in at 97%, 94% and 89% of his scores. Get them out there in a local match and let the 7 and 8 shot give it a whirl to see if it is plauseable.

[TonyT]

However it's done - having another revolver class for 8 shot revolvers in USPSA would be welcome! One could expect two classes:

REV-6 and REV-8

[Carmoney]

However it's done - having another revolver class for 8 shot revolvers in USPSA would be welcome! One could expect two classes:

REV-6 and REV-8

I would respectfully disagree with any plan that would propose to split our small division out any further. I'm also quite certain such a plan would never be favored by the BOD.

[Carmoney]

Although if you really stop and think about it, when USPSA/IPSC decided to have more than one handgun division, the initial dividing line should have been between the two types of operating systems--autos and revolvers. Only after this division was implemented should they have divided it further into Open Auto, Limited Auto, Open Revolver, and Limited Revolver.

This would have made so much more sense than what we have today.

More beer talk that will never matter now.....

[jmax]

Mike,

Why not rate just the revolvers as major/minor and let the round count be decided by the shooter. With USPSA now owning the Steel Challenge where the 8 round revolvers are the norm and we are seeing increased 617's showing up in the rimfire event so why wouldn't they consider a simple change that would probably increase the number of revolver shooters?

John

[EEH]

when I drag out one of my 7 or 8 shots the ranges I shoot at put me in open wont even let us shoot them in steel matches But THEN I host A bowling PIN and STEEL match on the fourth SATURDAY of each month at MYRTLE BEACH SC. if it has a round cylinder it shoots in rev.6-7-or 8 shot power factor not a problem if you can't knock em off table o well -- the only diff is revs that have scopes U shoot open--AND for autos all must shoot only 10 rounds but only a fun match ..ant that what its all about--I love it Eddie

Edited October 21, 2008 by EEH

[Tom E]

I'm also not at all sold on the idea of including 8-shoot revolvers in with Single-Stack (sorry Tom E), yeah sure, you might win local matches here and there against a bunch of scrubs, but any decent 1911 shooter will handily prevail on reload speed alone. I'm pretty steady with an 8-shot revolver, but in a USPSA match with anything meaningful on the line I'd grab one of my 1911s every time if that were the game.

I agree. But within the existing structure it seems the best fit. We have have lots more people shooting local matches than the Nationals.

I don't see how you can integrate 6 and 8 shooters. I just shoot local matches and it's so 8 round biased the standing reloads would just make a six shooter dead meat.

Think about shooting one of the "wonderfull" 8 rds, mandatory reload, 8rds, classifiers. Would you take a 6 shot major over a 8 shot minor? Our local matches are a lot like that.

Edited October 21, 2008 by Tom E

[ffl]

I would like to see some sort of change to allow 7 or 8 shot revo's

the penalty for firing a 7th shot is big in comparison to other penalties as compared to others in USPSA.

What happens if you are in SS and fire more than 8 rounds from a reloaded mag?

LittleFFL has a hard time dropping a loaded round when he could still fire it a steel that is standing. MissFFL, LittleFFL & Snubbies son (Aaron) all incurred penalites on one of our stages last month because of over shots.

I is really hard to explain the reasoning (if any) behind why 7 & 8 shot revolver shooters get penalized for the 7th shot.

I thought it was DVC.

that is my .02

[ffl]

How about limiting the dia of the cyl to 1.715"? Then we could make some of those neat go, no-go gauges like the bottom feeders have. Load and shoot as many rounds as you like as long as you can cram them into the max dia cyl.

:roflol: :roflol: :surprise:

[Tom E]

I is really hard to explain the reasoning (if any) behind why 7 & 8 shot revolver shooters get penalized for the 7th shot.

Put up 7 plates. Give Little FFL an 8 shooter and you shoot your 625. Might explain why. I just bought a 627. I wish I knew of a good solution.

[bdpaz]

Wouldn't finding a way to incorporate all ICORE legal revolvers mean more USPSA revolver shooters? I have been shooting the Phoenix area weekly steel matches (with a semi-auto) for about 18 months now. A few months back I bought a 625 - I really enjoy shooting it but my eyes aren't so great anymore so I put a red dot on it. Big fun at the steel matches and the one ICORE match I have shot. Now I've started shooting USPSA but there's no place for my revolver (although at my level with a revolver I could shoot Open because I'll be at the bottom no matter what division I'm in).

I know this doesn't strictly apply to the 7 & 8 shot question and this may have been discussed before, but it seems like letting the ICORE revolver guys shoot what they have would bring more people in, not dilute the existing pool.

Brad

[ffl]

I is really hard to explain the reasoning (if any) behind why 7 & 8 shot revolver shooters get penalized for the 7th shot.

Put up 7 plates. Give Little FFL an 8 shooter and you shoot your 625. Might explain why. I just bought a 627. I wish I knew of a good solution.

That won't work. He will shoot them down before I do and I will have to reload more than once. :roflol:

[steel1212]

7/8 shot iron sight revolvers scored minor sounds like fun.

Keep it in revo division.

Dave

You just want to shoot minor everything

As small as the revo turn out is now I think its a bad idea to add another revo division. If it came down to it I think the single stack like rule would be best....6 is major >6 scored minor. That way they are still shooting revolvers, adding to the count, and getting to shoot what they have, or just having fun shooting the other roundy rounds they have piled in their safe...Dave....