Ground Loop Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I loaded up a few hundred rounds of .223 with the Dillon (non-carbide) die set, and have had headspace problems in my varmint gun. (1 of 10 wouldn't chamber at all, and brass was getting torn up) I finally got an RCBS Micrometer and learned that my cases are not getting resized correctly -- they're almost 6 thou's too long! If I adjust the Dillon size die down to where it firmly contacts the shellplate at top-of-stroke, it's still about .004" too long. I'd like to get them down to SAMMI length for reliable loading. If I really crank it in to where it's crushing the shellplate, then I can get almost there.. 0.001" over spec. In comparison, American Eagle new ammo is about -0.001" by the same micrometer. Winchester is -.003". I'd like to see 0.000", ideally, since the ammo gets used in an assortment of autoloaders. What am I missing? Is there anything else I can adjust to get more sizing action? I don't want to damage the shellplate or press by smashing the die into it, but it doesn't do me any good to load long brass either. Anyone else see this? The ammo is fine otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 For length, that's not a sizing uissue, yuo need to trim them. (Dillon power trimmer, hand trimmer, Giraud, Forester.. etc..) Size the cases adjusting the die with a case guage, then trim them to length 1.750 or so.. Unles I'm missing somehting big in your description.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ground Loop Posted October 12, 2008 Author Share Posted October 12, 2008 For length, that's not a sizing uissue, yuo need to trim them. (Dillon power trimmer, hand trimmer, Giraud, Forester.. etc..)Size the cases adjusting the die with a case guage, then trim them to length 1.750 or so.. Unles I'm missing somehting big in your description.. By "length", I meant headspace.. that is head to shoulder length, the one measured on the case micrometer. The overall length isn't bothering the gun any, and I trim the long ones down on my Forster Classic trimmer. My problem is that the full-length sizing die is doing nothing at all.. the cases go in with the shoulder out +0.006" over new-brass length, and they come out of the size die the same length to the shoulder. I can't dial the size die down any further because it smashes into the shellplate. What could this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Neill Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Since the die shoulder length is too long, you are faced with getting a new die, of having that one cut down. Easiest, and maybe no more costly, is to get a new die. You might contact Dillon and tell them what is happening - perhaps they can replace it. Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Ah... I do cam over slightly, and I know many people do. If I screw the die down until it touches the shell plate, back off the tool head, and then screw it down about another 1/8 of a turn or so.. that does it for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Ah...I do cam over slightly, and I know many people do. If I screw the die down until it touches the shell plate, back off the tool head, and then screw it down about another 1/8 of a turn or so.. that does it for me.. This doesnt damage the shellplate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 This doesnt damage the shellplate? Nope.. well..not so far.... at this point, it seems that most people (local) are caming over. It may depend on the die you're using too. With the Dillon die.. to get it to gauge, I need a little cam over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 First off it sounds like you have a bunch of brass fired in a 5.56 chamber that you are trying to use in a .223 chambered rifle. Dillion's ad says that even with carbide dies that lube is required so I size them in an RCBS die in an RCBS press before I trim them the first time. Two things cause brass to stretch; firing in an oversize chamber and pulling the expander button up through the neck. Most accuracy rifle shooters only neck size to limit the amount of brass working and then they tend to use powdered graphite inside the neck to reduce stretching at least I do for my 22/250. Since you are trying to reload ammo for several semiauto .223/5.56 rifles I'm thinking that my method might be better than bending up your Dillion press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 try this: With no cases on the shellplate, pull the handle down, and screw the die down until it stops against the shellplate. Lift the handle up a bit, turn the die down an additional 1/8 turn. Now run a lubed case up into the die, and tighten the die lock ring with the case up in the die. remove all traces of lube from the case and interior of the case gage, then see if the case drops into the gage enough that the head of the case is flush with the lower step on the case gage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 try a neck sizing die on your reloading head, somewhere before the powder drop. This is assuming you are using a 2 head system, one for sizing/trimming, one for reloading. I had the same problem until I put a neck sizing die in an empty die slot on my reload head, now no problems in the case checking die, or any of the chambers I have, Wilde, 223, or 556. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) I can't stress enough the importance of using a headspace guage when resizing .223. If you are out of spec you risk the chance of headspace seperation when firing. Even if you are just a few thousands too short your taking a big gamble. Set the dies like the manufactures states, lube and run a case through the resizer, drop it into the chamber guage and see is the base is flush with the guage. That's SO important to proper chamber fit in the rifle. Move the dies up or down to get the exact fit in the guage. Ream the primer pockets if your using military brass, then check for overall length which will be 2.750 inchs for a trimmed minimum length. Trim if needed. Retumble the brass to remove any sign of case lube. Check primer pockets for media before priming. Neck sizing dies are good for bolt guns. You need to use a small base die set for and AR. Have fun shooting. Edited October 17, 2008 by Mike Morcillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 I have been trying to figure out what is going on and looking at all the possible solutions being offered up. Information you did not provide. What firearm and what cases? How big are the fired cases before you size them? Is your chamber already a little over spec and the brass is expanding beyond what the dies can reverse? One scenario is cases may be way oversize when they come out of the rifle. And when being sized they are springing back somewhat, and to a point of not being able to chamber. Run some (more than one and less than ten) cases through the sizing die without the decap / neck expander in. See if they fit back into the rifle and or case guage. If they do, then the neck expander is pulling the neck and shoulder forward. Make sure lube gets into the neck of the case. I use Dillon Carbide dies. I ordered them in error and have not looked back. I use lube as per their recommendation. The ammo that comes out of these dies (on a 550) will fit all of my AR and Mini 14 rifles and all of the bolt guns that I have and a few of my freinds who load on my gear because they like my beer a lot. No issues. The bolt guns are all fired with neck sized brass that is particular to each rifle. The autos get what ever is nearest the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 How does the resized case fit in a guage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 It is not impossible that the die is just a few thou too long. Maybe the reamer went in just a little deeper on that one. The easy thing to try is to have a few thou trimmed off the bottom of the die and see if that fixes the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDB Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Give Dillon a call. A friend of mine had a similar problem, round would chamber and shoot fine but was hell to extract if you didn't fire it. Ended up having a die that was out of spec., they replaced his for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 (edited) Found your answer in the current issue of Guns magazine, page 30. They had the same problem when resizing brass. The target was to get the .223 brass to be .003-.004 shorter than the fired case. Dies wouldn't do it. Seems that the die was too long to begin with and had to be trimmed to get the die to work. They recommend a machine shop to shorten the length, but I'd return it to Dillon and ask for a replacement. Hope this helps. Edited October 21, 2008 by Mike Morcillo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 This thread really helped me. I was having extraction problems on rounds that were chambered and not fired. Was hell unloading after a stage. Now I know why! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Morcillo Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Forgot to mention that the measurement was taken at the shoulder of the case. So, the setback done after resizing should be .003-.004. Think I'll check my brass, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 I went through the same thing with the same setup. All you have to do is take a die grinder (3m scotch type surface cleaning wheel) and pass over the opened end of the die several times.. It does'nt take much and you cant really overdo it if you take steps, the die can always be adjusted back out, no more over camming, using two dies, etc.. Infact I have a little secret, a while back I sent a die back to D for the same problem and that is ecxactly what they did to it. There was no clean machine marks, only a grinding wheel and it worked fine after that !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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