40 Cal And Vv320

[Tacblack]

OK lets see if I can not sound like a dummy. I have been shooting VV340 and montana gold bullets 180 for some time. My wonder is I load to an OAL of 1.150 so I can use my 40's in all my guns.

I have some VV320 and know the pressure spike can be a problem loading this set up. Every one loads them long. Is this a must, can it be done in a shorter OAL that I could still use in other guns. What is the shortest OAL anyone loads VV320 with?

Would it be wroth it to change to VV320 in a longer OAL, then a shorter OAL with VV340. Should I try VV330 at the OAL I use now. I will happely give up a lighter feel of recoil for a safty and gun longivity.

Hope everyone understands. Some history, I have been loading since 1997. IPSC major 38 super, 40. Minor 38 special, 9mm, 357 sig, 40. I have used VV330,340 and 350, VV330 only on 9mm's been working great! VV350 for all and VV340 for super minor and 40's.

Any info or input will be welcome. Thanks

[Jon Merricks]

If 340 has been working for you I would just stick with that and try to sell your 320 at a local match. I dont think I have seen anyone load 320 to less than 1.180, but I'm sure there are some out there. Have you looked on jmass site?

[Loves2Shoot]

1.95 here

[a-44978]

1.185,1.195,1.200,1.250 in my 2011. I suspect shorter oal needs less powder and more efficient if it will feed.

Since i want to keep my trusty glock rig up and running in case i blow a powersteering hose or somthing in this 2011,i might play with a shorter oal to use same ammo in both

[Flexmoney]

There are some Glock shooters (OAL< 1.160) that load VV320 & 180's to Major in the 40. I haven't tried it...

[Al Capizzo]

I've used 4.8 grs. of N-320 over a Precision 185/.40 at 1.155". Thats probably a little long for what your looking for but its a place to start. This load used Winchester Small Pistol primers and came in at 165.3 power factor from a 5" barrel.

Al

[grim death]

I load 5.3 gr @ 1.175" with a .40 cal 180 gr. armscor with a pf of 168.8 through a sti 5" edge and it works great

[benny hill]

try 1.150 180 fmj 4.9 vv320 makes about 168 pf

[Jasonub]

In the Philippines, I load my 40 to 1.210" on an SVI with ultimatch barrel the load is 4.9 grains and hits 175 pf.

These loads seem very safe since when I look at the fired brass, there seems to be a black powder burn on the side indicating that burning gas passed through the side of the brass like the 45 acp indicating that the pressure is not enough to expand the brass to fill the barrel chamber.

With this load I never had a bulging case in my entire shooting carreer with the 40

[Tacblack]

Thanks for all the reply's so far. I will try some test loads with some specs from here and see what I get.

Part 2, since you all have been helpful, has anyone noticed a difference in these shorter OAL loads using VV320 over a slower burning Vihta powder.

[GvU]

I've been using 320 in about all calibers I like to shoot:

9mmP 124gn (4.3 / 132) and 147gn (3.5 / 132) bullets (all standard FMJ length 29mm (1.142")),

40S&W upto 190 grain bullets (close to IPSC major (168, but there is plenty of safety to go with heavier loads)) usually 180 copperplated from frontier (SA) with about 4.8 to 4.9 gn N320 and a seating depth of 29.4mm (1.155") (the 190's are seated without re-adjusting the seater and are even a hair shorter (29.2mm and about 4.5gn N320), (5" Clark match barrel)

38 specials to about 130 -135 with 125gn and 158 gn bullet

45acp 230 grain bullets no problem at all (about 4.9 n320 from a 5" match barrel for 175 -178 PF).

Primers are federal 100 or Winchester sp/lp. These rounds are getting a slight tapercrimp, except the 40 where I use a Lee FCD the tapercrimp is not used here.

357 magnum: target loads yes, noise yes, but no magnum loads are possible especially with the heavier bullets.

N320 is a nice and a very clean all around powder. The nice thing is that it's a bit more bulkier than most powders available here (Netherlands). Take care because VV does not list any heavy bullets with N320!

As for shorter length:

A couple of weeks ago I loaded some 123gn 9mmP (pressure wise close to the 40) and I noticed after a dozen of rounds that they were a bit short. Turned out I was using the flatpoint side instead of roundnose. They were about 1mm (.04") shorter than usual.

As I was going to chrono the rounds anyway, I decided to take them too. The short rounds were about 40 - 50 fps slower. No signs of pressure, but then again I usually try to stay away from maximum loads.

I would stay away from making the cartridges to long. Loading to close to the rifling produces high pressures and irratic velocities due to variations in the production process of the bullets (ogive, where and when does the bullet hit the rifling). Seating bullets out definedly requires the rifling starting further from the chamber (gunsmith).

As for velocity in different guns: (the same variations may occur in 40, I just have more 9mmP guns)

para P18-9

caspian 9mmP, clark match barrel

glock

The Glock has the highest velocities, para probably 2nd but close, caspian third. There is about 3 PF-point between minimum and maximum with the same rounds.

Temperature has some influence, but barometric pressure also. There is only little variance.

Fouling shooting 2 x 6 rounds reveiled stabilizing after just a couple. Repeating after about 100 turned out the same as the 2nd 6 rounds.

Most variance is coming from differences in casings or is it the temperature? They are just to close together for a defined answer. Cases vary in thickness so do bullets, expansion of cases (diameter) with temperature may have more influence at sizing than we realise. Ever notice cases getting warmer as you progress with loading?

I keep wondering about lower 1st shots, which is not contributing to consistency but at normal pistol-distances I cannot see precision problems.

John

[dajarrel]

Tacblack,

I was wanting to shoot v320 in my .40 STI and in my S&W 610 10mm revolver shooting .40S&W rounds. Indoors I shoot montana gold 180 fmj and outdoors I shoot 175 LTC that I cast myself. I have been using HS-6 but found it to be dirty in the revolver.

I emailed Vitavouri and asked about a recommendation for .40S&W in 180 jacketed and 175 lead with v320. Their reply was that they didn't recommend v320 but v340 for these bullets.

I currently load 5.4 gr of V340 with Federal primers in various brass to 1.15 OAL for both the jacketed and lead bullet. This is a nice load that shoots like it is slightly below the required 165 pf for major. I haven't had a chance to chrono it. I use the lead outdoors and the jacketed indoors in both the revolver and STI. Both bullets run equally well in either gun. My only objection is the smoke that accompanies lead bullets and thier lubricants.

Word of caution, Always start low and work upward watching for pressure signs. Use your load manuals!!!!

I hope this helps as I have been very happy with this load.

FWIW,

Dennis

[Larry White]

I've been useing vv320 with 180s, 165s and 155s for several years, I use mostly wsr primers and load from 1.155 to 1.165 or so and have never seen a hint of a problem. Larry

[Skywalker]

In loading .40 for my SVI, I've used VV320 in all possible bullets, from 180 to 213 grs both lead and copper plated.

Lenghts were from 1.170" to 1.235" from lightest to heaviest bullet: I measured each bullet lenght and set the O.A.L. according, to try to preserve the same internal volume of the loads for each different bullet type.

I never had any pressure problem with those loads.

If you are interested in my experience with VV320 and .40" SW, you can download this zip file.

dajarrel,

I too temporarily switched to 340, following similar advices, but my experience with it ended a couple of matches ago, when I made major at chrono (170.2 actually) at 7th bullet, with a very big extreme velocities spread.

Before going to that match I tried a load which chronoed (at the very same chrono) @190 PF, then backed up .3 grains and chronoed @168 PF, then went up .1 grs and the result was the one I described above.

Haven't been able to work out a consistent .40 load with 340 and 205 grs copper plated bullets.

[Klev]

Sky67,

I had the same problem with my 340 loads (both 9 Luger and .40).

I think too long OAL is responsible for your extreme velocity spread. The VV340 is a SLOW powder and it needs a certain level of pressure to burn completely and consistently. With longer OAL starting pressure will be too low to fully ignite the powder. Try to decrease OAL (see the VV manual for min. OAL!!! ) and your 340 loads will be consistent. If you don't want to change OAL use SR or Magnum primers.

[Skywalker]

Klev,

good advice, I might give it a try and just see the results.

On the other hand I'm quite satisfied with actual O.A.L.since it gave me almost nil failures to feed, and I am quite reluctant to change that "magic" recipe.

As I said, I'll give it a try in practice sessions.

[A33435]

I think Klev has a good point there.

My cartridges are 28.6 - 28.7 mm and i use Federal SP200 primers.

The velocity of my bullets (180 grains) is fairly consistent and i use VV340.

Greetings

Adrie

[GvU]

The erratic velocities stopped me from using N340 quite fast in 45acp and I didn't use 340 after until I came testing 220 grain bullets in 40 (Haendler&Natermann HS-plating) . These had to be seated DEEP (about 1.14' / 29mm). Any longer and the round would not chamber reliably. Unloading was a joy when they were a tad longer, because the bullet stayed put spilling powder in the gun.

The round was accurate enough but there was no recoil reduction and it was very expensive. The velocity spread was ok, but not spectacular, probably the bullet was slightly deformed (irregular), with a minor bullet jump to the rifling.

The cheaper plated 180 gn bullets at the same PF had the same recoil and were as least as accurate (loaded with N320). Those can be seated to about 1.22"(31mm). As I shoot a Para I do keep the length down to about 1.15" (29.35mm).

I contributed the velocity spread to the lack of pressure in the (downloaded!) 45 (PF about 178 - 182).

With the 220gn 40's the spread (more than expected) was probably caused by variations (deformations) in the seated bullets combined with tight "free-bore".

N340 does work very well in 38 super (PF 163 not USPSA) in relation to velocity spread (accuracy as well). That is a higher pressure round, there are no danger signs (fed 100). I haven't tested enough to the extend of pushing the muzzle down when compared to slower powders, it does not look to bad there.

My conclusion is, N340 is a good powder, provided enough (initial) pressure is build on firing. Crimping the bullet would have a positive effect there!

John

[j1b]

VV recommends N-350 for .40's as well.

Anyone have any history?

JB

[shred]

~6.5 gr N350 under a 180gr Golden Saber worked well on bowling pins. About a 185 PF. Not for use in standard OAL or unsupported barrels.

[Tacblack]

I loaded vv350 for about 3 years in my 40's, load data I still have

200grn RN Montana Gold, WSM primers, OAL 1.147-1.15 @ 175.8pf...878.9fps SVI 5" factory

180grn RN Montana Gold, Fed 200 primers, OAL 1.147-1.5 @ 181.8pf...1009.8fps SVI 5" factory

[sgrc1]

I got a recipe from a friend which I tried and worked fine for me. I am shooting a Glock 23 with KKM barrel with Comp in Major PF.

.40 180gr West Coast copper bullets

4.9 gr W320

OAL 1135

Crimp .420

I took 20 round and used my Pact chrono, they all delivered from 173PF to 176PF.

Does anyone advice against this recipe, or should I be safe with it??, my concearn is that the W manual does not recommend this powder for .40