Paul Burtchell Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I'm planning on ramping up my training and live fire practice. In order to afford this I think my only solution will be to shoot lead bullets for practice. I can buy KEAD lead 180grain hard cast lead bullets for $55.00/1000. I love MG 180's but I don't think I can afford 1000 rounds a month for practice and another 400-500 per month for matches. I will be shooting a STI with a factory barrel. If I switch back and forth between lead and copper is this going to jack up my barrel. I've read where shooting lead after copper will result in more severe leading unless all of the copper is removed?? I was thinking of using WST or Solo 1000 for my lead loads and I've always used N320 or TG for jacketed. Another issue is this difference in recoil impulse between these loads a bad idea? I'm just wondering if I would be better off shooting lead for my matches as well as practice?? If money were no object I would just shoot jacketed, BUT.... Opinions??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I shoot precisions for practice and locals and Jacketed for Majors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 +1 I've shot lots of lead or moly at locals (outdoor) and used MG's for bigger matches in my Production gun (9mm). I never had any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M ammo Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I case my own so the price is right, If I know I will be shooting indoors, Jacketed, its a smoke thing. Clean your gun you will be fine. Jim M ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I think a lot of people are doing the same thing, I know I am. I'm shooting up some old 205 cast bullets I have at practice and some local stuff and using 180jhp's at serious matches. You may have to use a "slower" burning powder with the lead to keep the barrel from leading too badly. I found an old lb of Win. 571 the other day and have been using 6.4 grs under the 205 cast bullet. It feels like a magnum compared to n320 or 700X, but it leads my barrel way less than they do. Jacketing my cause lead build up, but I've shot cast bullets starting with a completely clean barrel and still get leading. The hard lubes used in bulk cast bullets just don't keep the bore clean like the soft beeswax and alox lubes do, they just aren't practical to use...and talk about smoke! EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighVelocity Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I shoot cast, moly, plated and jacketed in the same barrel and haven't had any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Eric Grauffel does the same thing. Seems to work for him. But he does use two different guns, one for practice and one for competitions. But that's only because of the crazy number of bullets that he shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I am doing this alos. I am shooting lead and mOlys for practice and locals and Molys exclusively for majors. I have switched to TG wiht molys and while a little smokey and it nice and soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I shoot lead for practice and local matches - shooting 45acp 230g bullets that are jacketed is waaaaaaaay out of my price range for the 2000 rounds or so a month I shoot.... For major matches, it's jacketed. Shoot the same bbl, no problems with leading at all; and I take the Schumman approach and rarely (if ever) clean the inside of the bbl itself. The recoil pulse is a little bit different, but a 200-300 round practice session with the jacketed bullets before the match and it all works out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Burtchell Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 I shoot lead for practice and local matches - shooting 45acp 230g bullets that are jacketed is waaaaaaaay out of my price range for the 2000 rounds or so a month I shoot.... For major matches, it's jacketed.Shoot the same bbl, no problems with leading at all; and I take the Schumman approach and rarely (if ever) clean the inside of the bbl itself. The recoil pulse is a little bit different, but a 200-300 round practice session with the jacketed bullets before the match and it all works out fine. Sounds like the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 im shooting almost only lead now there was a time when the opposite was true Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokarev Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 You guys practice? Now that's a neat idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwin Lead Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 No shame in using lead these days. If you purchase a few K of bullets and don't like them PM me and I'll take them off your hands. I use lead for practice and club matches and use moly for the larger matches. I clean my gun after about 500 to 700 rounds but I do run a dry boresnake through after each use - practice or match. Sometime there are signs of leading, more so shooting minor velocities than major. A few strokes with Hoppe's #9, a worn bore bursh with a piece of copper chore boy pot scrubber mesh wrapped around it KO's the lead rather quickly. I shoot a full size M&P. Check out mastercast.net. They have a quality lead 180 gn bullet. If you are looking for some diversity as far as lead bullets regarding weight check out Penn Bullets pennbullets.com. Bob offers a wide range of 40 cal bullets. He has a 165 gn bullet that makes a nice round. You may want to check out S & S casting too. Jim Stinar is the owner and advertises in the USPSA classifieds - log on to view classifieds. S&S has a 220 gn bullet that makes the softest major load! Imagine making 170 PF at 770 FPS! There is another thread here titled HEAVY LEAD discussing the 220 gn bullet. S&S also offers a 175 gn SWC. I have not had much luck getting the SWC to feed reliably, maybe 1 FTF per 30 rounds. You are right on with your powder choices WST or S1000. I have developed major and minor loads for each using lead bullets. They both run about the same velocities per charge weight and make a nice clean, low smoke load. I use WST because I can find it easier locally. One thing you may want to do with any caster these days is to call and inquire about their stock. You may find that some are behind while others can fill your order right now. Just the nature of the beast for the casters right now. Keep us informed as to what direction you decide to go. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybravo Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I shoot all lead. Practice, club level, and major matches. One load does all. I also cast my own. makes it much easier to control quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I have gone the same route. We have a few local options for lead. I have always shot lead, just alot more these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
want2race Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Any of you that shoot lead exclusively had any chambering issues? My finished loads have a slight bulge where the bullet sits. I've opened up the chamber just a bit to allow a little more room but I still have a few failures to chamber using a 12.5 recoil spring. Leading is not really a problem, I clean the barrel after every match. Loaded on a SDB. I've started to chamber check everything and that sucks (wasted time). I'm getting about 5% that won't drop into the chamber. I have 5k 180 LSWC's that may end up in the classifieds. I'm just getting tired of smoke I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwin Lead Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Any of you that shoot lead exclusively had any chambering issues? My finished loads have a slight bulge where the bullet sits. I've opened up the chamber just a bit to allow a little more room but I still have a few failures to chamber using a 12.5 recoil spring. Leading is not really a problem, I clean the barrel after every match. Loaded on a SDB.I've started to chamber check everything and that sucks (wasted time). I'm getting about 5% that won't drop into the chamber. I have 5k 180 LSWC's that may end up in the classifieds. I'm just getting tired of smoke I guess. At your rate of 5% meaning 5 out of 100 - I would use a bullet puller on the failed rounds and measure the bullet diameter. I'm thinking a slight increase in diameter of the bullet. If that proves true you should be getting in touch with the caster. Assuming 5% per 100 yields 50 per thousand. Unacceptable quality control - think about shipping them back and trying again based on your quanity of 5K. I have been using lead the better part of this season & have found case gauge issues(Wilson case gauge) with about 5 out of 1K with the product I use. Sure enough the diameter was about 0.003-004 larger than 0.401. I can live with a half of percent and even 1 pecent failure per thousand but not 5%. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Get a Lee Factory Crimp die and take the work out of chamber checking, which I only do for match ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwin Lead Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 Get a Lee Factory Crimp die and take the work out of chamber checking, which I only do for match ammo. Won't work with a Square Deal as the dies are not interchageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybravo Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I use a Lee factory crimp die on my 550. 40 is the first caliber that I actually chamber check each round. Depends where i get my used brass from. Only had a few not pass the chamber check (using gauge). I was the brass' fault not the bullet's. I use Lyman 401638 175 grain truncated cone type bullet. Size them at .401 in star sizer. Plain wheel weight or range scrap lead. Shoot them at 172 power factor. 1.127" oal. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino_aki Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 The only caveat to shooting lead for practice and jacketed for matches is to be sure they both shoot to the same point of aim and are close to equivalent in accuracy. If the lead load isn't as accurate, your practice will not be at optimum levels or even be able to tell you anything, as in "Was that D hit because of me or the load?" If the lead load is as accurate and cheaper to boot...why would you change over to jacketed for a match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 If the lead load is as accurate and cheaper to boot...why would you change over to jacketed for a match? I shoot lead at practice and plated at matches due to budget constraints. The smoke with cast lead + high humidity + no wind = Stevie Wonder with a gun impersonation. I shot an el-prez at practice recently...well....attempted to. By the 5th shot, The target array was lost. Completely and utterly obscured by the smoke. I don't have this issue with the Berry's that I use strictly for matches due to cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 The smoke with cast lead + high humidity + no wind = Stevie Wonder with a gun impersonation. [Obi Wan voiceover] Use the Force, Chris! [/Obi Wan voiceover] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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