Sweeping

[Stonyman65]

So far I have shot two USPSA matches. I have only been shooting for about a year now. I have a long way to go before I am going to be any good but I kept on running into a problem at the range the other day; I was constantly sweeping my hand and legs and the RO said that my gun Handling was too loose. so loose that I almost got DQ'd

I don't want to end up shooting some one or being unsafe, so I was wondering if any of you that are more experienced could help me out with this problem. I'm not used to the run-and-gun type sports yet. before May, the only experience I had was at an indoor range so movement was minimal if not non-existent.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[North]

Slow down! You have to crawl before you can walk. Focus on safety, the speed will come in time.

[AWLAZS]

When is this happening? During the draw, during a reload, when moving? The best thing you can do is get your gun up infront of your face quickly during the draw and keep it there while you shoot move reload or clear a jam.

Watch where the more experenced shooters keep their gun and copy them.

Good luck

[JimmyZip]

Slowing down. That cannot be emphasized too much to those of us new to this sport. If you remember Star Wars and light sabres then you can consider your pistol like a light sabre with a beam that projects into infinity. If you are sweeping your legs or hands imagine that you just cut them off. Remember that you have a LIVE WEAPON in your hand and that an AD at your hand and/or leg would be a tragic end to what would otherwise be a good day.

I have seen friends shoot themselves on accident and I can attest to their discomfort and loss of pay as a result of such accidents. One friend of mine was killed this way, not in a match but due to unsafe gun handling, can't tell you how much I still miss him.

IF we would sweep eachother when my father was teaching us how it's done he would DQ us for the day and we were relegated to setting targets and policing brass. That gave you lots of time to think about what you had done wrong and what to do different next time.

So slow down and remember, do not point that thing at anything that you are not willing to destroy. That's what it will do if you are not careful.

OH, and have fun too!

[vluc]

Be sure you understand exactly what sweeping is. From the Rulebook:

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s

body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for

sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing

or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s

fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception

is only for holstered handguns.

Frankly, if you were constantly sweeping as you state, the RO should have stopped you, given you the DQ, and patiently explained exactly what you were doing wrong, preferably with an empty gun in an empty bay.

You can slow down until the cows come home, but if you don't pay attention to what you are doing, you will keep making that same mistake.

[BritinUSA]

Can you provide more details as to what and when you were sweeping.

For example were you moving with the muzzle of the gun pointed at the ground ? Were you sweeping your weak hand when moving or during a reload ? Once we have that information then everyone can provide you with the help that you are seeking.

Some good ground rules have already been mentioned, here are some more...

• When moving, try to keep the barrel of the gun parallel to the ground, don't raise the muzzle or lower it as it could sweep your legs.
  
• Until you become more familiar with moving , try to keep both hands on the gun. This will prevent sweeping your hands/arms.
  
• Slow down, each part of shooting should be done slowly to start with. There is a tendency to shoot quick at the start, instead just try to be smooth. The speed will come later.
  

[Steve J]

Slow down and keep your elbow on a swivel. You should develop an internal gyroscope that keeps the gun pointed at the back berm and horizontal to the ground all the time when not shooting at targets.

[Flexmoney]

The game is deciving. It looks like it's about being fast. Not so much though.

Quit thinking run-n-gun.

Think...move smoothly...shoot Alphas.

But, before all of that...ALWAYS know where your muzzle is pointed. Always.

[Stonyman65]

One time I was opening a door wit my left hand, the weapon was on safe in my right pointed at the ground. another time my magazines where on a barrel and I had to switch the weapon (unloaded, with the slide to the rear) to my left hand to reach for another magazine. I then loaded the magazine, put the weapon on safe and switched to my right hand again and engaged the targets.

I tend to hold the weapon down low to the ground when moving instead of holding the muzzle towards the sky. I guess that would be considered sweeping under my waist line. the RO said that I also sweep my leg when i holster, but I never broke the 180 rule. I should have been DQ'd for this, but I guess the RO gave me a break since I am new. I did screw up, but in my defense, ever time i moved the weapon was on safe and my finger was outside of the trigger guard.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Stonyman65

[Flexmoney]

I did screw up, but in my defense, ever time i moved the weapon was on safe and my finger was outside of the trigger guard.

Sorry. That is no defense.

Muzzle...muzzle...muzzle.

The muzzle, safety, finger out of the trigger guard...all of those things are layers of safety.

[Stonyman65]

Okay.

[Flexmoney]

Good answer.

We usually see a lot of truth before somebody says "but"... and a lot of rationalization after the word "but".

I was poking at you a bit...to drive the point home.

Just keep in mind...it's a game. No reason to get anybody hurt. And, the layers of safety need to be there because it's a game with real guns and real bullets.

Good of you to seek advice. Shows character.

[JThompson]

Depending on the gun, you might want to train with a laser. That glowing dot on your skin is hard to miss.

Slow down and keep the gun up at eye level, so it's in your line of sight. It's easier to control your muzzle when you can see it.

[HoMiE]

You shouldn't have to switch hands to grab a mag, put all your mags on support hand side.

Next time you go shooting, ask the MD if anyone would like to give you some safety pointers. I bet no one will turn down giving you any safety tips.

[Greg Bell]

SteveJ hit it right on the head reread what he said, it will keep you and others safe.

[BayouSlide]

I tend to hold the weapon down low to the ground when moving instead of holding the muzzle towards the sky.

Safety is better served by always keeping the muzzle toward the berm at 90 degrees to the 180 than pointed towards ground or sky. This will serve you well, especially in a courses of fire that have you moving directly left to right, or vice versa, along a course of fire, with movement between shooting positions. Hope my geometry makes sense...a video would make more sense than my explanation, probably

To avoid the potential problems of sweeping yourself when opening a door or a port, I always try to make sure the gun, in my strong hand, is forward of the weak hand that is grabbing for the handle. Often you just have to angle yourself a little to make this happen...try it, sans gun, during the walk through until you've got it. Don't forget to plan for where your muzzle will be pointed.

Slow down and stay safe as you learn...an extra second or two at this stage will cause fewer problems than a DQ or, heaven forbid, an injury to you or others.

Edited July 14, 2008 by BayouSlide

[Stonyman65]

Alright. Will do. Thanks for all the advice. the range master at the local club here (South East Practical Shooting Association, AKA SEPSA) have volunteered to coach me on shooting. also a few members of the squad I shoot with are helping me at the local range. I'm in good hands. I just need to practice more and concentrate on what I am doing, not being fast.

Like said before, smooth is fast

[demp35744]

Try to keep your gun at eye level when opening doors, reloading, moving, etc. It's safer and the gun is already where it needs to be to get back on target.

[Seth]

As a certified FNG, I lack the experience to tell you all the things NOT to do. However, I can only impress upon you the same thing that was impressed upon me:

YOU'RE RUNNING AROUND WITH A LOADED GUN. ACT LIKE IT.

Lets assume you have an ND into the air and miss the berm. That bullet has to land somewhere -- hope its not on my head.

Not one person here expects you to be going at 100 mph as a unclassified or D class shooter. They expect you to concentrate on fundamentals, learning to play the game and being safe. Everything else WILL come with time. As much as I hate to admit it, its all true.

[Nemo]

Stony,

I'm so glad you followed my advice and came to the forums. I promise that if you keep coming here not only will you learn lots about the shooting but will also make very good friends.

I've had the pleasure of squadding with Stony on his two outings to the SEPSA matches and can attest, as Flex pointed out, that he's a young man of character and discipline, and who happens to shoot the right gun: a 1911 in 45acp

I believe you just got carried away in the cadence of how things happen in a stage; you shot too fast and got a bit careless about muzzle direction once or twice. I didn't see you shoot the stage with the door but when I RO'ed you in the classifier, after you finished you almost turned around and face me before holstering the gun. I wasn't gonna let you turn around and told you, but these are the kind of things that you need to pay the strictest attention to. Also, because you wouldn't be DQ'ed for sweeping yourself at the MAKE READY or at the HOLSTER commands, DOES NOT MAKE IT A GOOD HABIT.

The most important lesson you will get out of this sport of ours is impecably safe gun handling. I'm sure you will, and that is why the sentence is not qualified by " if you pay attention" or "if you're willing to listen and learn". Also, be certain that it won't bother me (or most any other shooter, for that mattter) if you want to ask me anything about the shooting or the course of fire. Use the resources you have available, don't be shy.

If you want I'll work with you at the indoor range, it's very close to my home. You have my e-mail and phone no. Let me know when you want to meet there. When we do we're gonna play "shoot lil' groups"

I understand the heat, but don't let the observations made by others keep you away from the range. If someone gets nasty with you, tell them to go see Nemo.

What does DVC mean?

Edited July 15, 2008 by Nemo

[Stonyman65]

Accuracy Power Speed. Motto of the USPSA/IPSC... created by Col. Jeff Cooper (RIP)

Yeah, I know my stuff.

But yeah, one of the guys on our aquad who was helping me (David? i think that's his name) got a little snippy with me after he RO'd me on that stage, he said that if I screw up again not only would he DQ me, but I wouldn't be allowed to shoot at SEPSA again. kinda scared me. then he kinda got snippy when he asked if I could help tear down the stage, something like "I know you've been sitting around all day, but can we get some help?" something like that. but whatever. it was a long day.

[BSeevers]

Cooper had another saying that he came up with.

Never point a gun at anything that you are not willing to destroy.

No excuses.

A gun can kill or maim you or me.

I keep my muzzle 90 to backstop, as much as I can while moving and finger out of trigger guard. I am a pretty fast shooter and lose nothing.

[Flexmoney]

Take Nemo up on his very kind and generous mentoring offer.

Be sure to pay him back by picking up his share of the stage building, stage tear-down, pasting and setting of the steel when you go to the local matches.

(Don't ever let an elder out work you. Well, they might work smarter, but not harder. )