Glock slidelock reload?

[Tattoo]

Hey All,

I was out practicing w/ a buddy for a State Match coming up yesterday and we ran through the IDPA classifier

and I noticed/thought that it was taking me forever to do the slidelock reload. I thought this because my buddy

cheats in that he is left-handed and hits the standard slide lock with his left index finger since it is right there for

the reload. Since I'm normal, I mean right handed , I obviously can't do it that way. My point is that he does it

wicked fast that way. Most guys seem to run w/o the extended slide lock lever as I do and I use the slingshot method.

So are we right handed guys just kinda screwed in this case or what? I added a poll for giggles......

Thanks,

T

Edited July 2, 2008 by Tattoo

[SA Friday]

I use an extended slide lock as I don't have issues with it accidently engaging. So, I use it to release the slide. I'm probably in the minority.

[Dan Hefta]

When my G34 goes to slide lock I reload and the slide automaticly slides forward, it is rare for me to have to sling shot the slide.

[UW Mitch]

I once was shooting a G20 and dropped the slide by pressing the slide stop, and the thing broke right off. It's a slide stop not a slide release, so I go with the slingshot - same on XD. Although I'm not consistent because with 1911's I use the slide stop to drop the slide. :wacko: (I'm left handed if that matters).

~Mitch

[vluc]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

[Greg Bell]

I use an extended slide lock as I don't have issues with it accidently engaging. So, I use it to release the slide. I'm probably in the minority.

Make that 2 of us

[maineshootah]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

+ 1 on my 21, 35, 19, 17.....

[vluc]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

+ 1 on my 21, 35, 19, 17.....

LOL! and my 22, 17's and 19!

Edited July 2, 2008 by vluc

[jobob]

Some of my guns close when I slam in the reload, some don't. I just assume a two hand firing grip after inserting the fresh mag, and my left thumb depresses the slide stop on the way to it's position along the left side of the frame. And I use the standard slide stop, since I got tired of the slide locking open at the wrong time, or not locking open when it should.

In my law enforcement training they tried to instill the slinghot method. I see no use for it, though. It's slow, and no more positive than releasing the slide w/left thumb.

[Tattoo]

In my law enforcement training they tried to instill the slinghot method.

This is why I slingshot and I try to be consistant with all training, but now I am wondering......... hence this post/poll.

T

[kevin c]

Half the time the slide will close on a hard reload on all my Glocks.

The other half of the time I use my weak hand (left) thumb to close the slide. Having small hands, I don't want to use my strong hand thumb - I'd have to move out of and then reacquire my firing grip. It's a small movement to thumb down the release (I also use the extended's w/o a problem) and then get the weak hand onto the gun.

On releasing the slide by slingshotting, the weak hand is behind the gun and, because of pulling back with that hand, tends to move away from the gun on letting go. I think that'd take up more time reacquiring a two handed firing grip. Might be a good technique if you're going to crank off some one handed shots on a near target right after the reload (isn't that the Israeli style of shooting from condition 2?)

[jobob]

In my law enforcement training they tried to instill the slinghot method.

This is why I slingshot and I try to be consistant with all training, but now I am wondering......... hence this post/poll.

T

When I went to LE firearm instructor training I had already taught myself to trip the slide w/my left thumb. I found the slingshot method to be slow and clumsy. The reasoning behind the slingshot method is that in the heat of battle you loose fine motor skills. The slingshot, so the theory goes, is a gross motor skill, thus you will remember to do it when the bullets fly. But at the same time they teach riding the trigger to reset. That is a fine motor skill. I'm wondering how many officers have been shot because they couldn't find the slide release button? I would dare to estimate nearly none to none. But I do know of officers who had "trigger freeze" during a firefight.

[Tattoo]

In my law enforcement training they tried to instill the slinghot method.

This is why I slingshot and I try to be consistant with all training, but now I am wondering......... hence this post/poll.

T

When I went to LE firearm instructor training I had already taught myself to trip the slide w/my left thumb. I found the slingshot method to be slow and clumsy. The reasoning behind the slingshot method is that in the heat of battle you loose fine motor skills. The slingshot, so the theory goes, is a gross motor skill, thus you will remember to do it when the bullets fly. But at the same time they teach riding the trigger to reset. That is a fine motor skill. I'm wondering how many officers have been shot because they couldn't find the slide release button? I would dare to estimate nearly none to none. But I do know of officers who had "trigger freeze" during a firefight.

All of what you're saying sounds 100% familiar, they must all teach out of the same book.

[SA Friday]

In my law enforcement training they tried to instill the slinghot method.

This is why I slingshot and I try to be consistant with all training, but now I am wondering......... hence this post/poll.

T

When I went to LE firearm instructor training I had already taught myself to trip the slide w/my left thumb. I found the slingshot method to be slow and clumsy. The reasoning behind the slingshot method is that in the heat of battle you loose fine motor skills. The slingshot, so the theory goes, is a gross motor skill, thus you will remember to do it when the bullets fly. But at the same time they teach riding the trigger to reset. That is a fine motor skill. I'm wondering how many officers have been shot because they couldn't find the slide release button? I would dare to estimate nearly none to none. But I do know of officers who had "trigger freeze" during a firefight.

All of what you're saying sounds 100% familiar, they must all teach out of the same book.

Yes, and based solidly within the lowest common denominator of LE shooter, the one that doesn't practice. IMO, there are times to take this advise and times to to not. If you are shooting 20,000 rounds a year at matches I think the training at the lowest common level hardly matters. Solidified muscle memory is huge in high stress situations, tactical situations. As for me, I will do what I have solidified in 2 1/2 years of competition shooting as the fastest way to get my gun up and firing again regardless of my LE training. For me, that's depressing the slide lock lever.

[HoMiE]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

+ 1 on my 21, 35, 19, 17.....

I don't know if it was engineered to close on reload but mine do it as well...most of the time if you do it hard enough.

[Tattoo]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

+ 1 on my 21, 35, 19, 17.....

I don't know if it was engineered to close on reload but mine do it as well...most of the time if you do it hard enough.

Mine does this too sometimes, I wish it did it all the time I may try using my left thumb in the future

if it does not close on the reload. Might be faster than slinghot. Times will tell......

[jobob]

In my law enforcement training they tried to instill the slinghot method.

This is why I slingshot and I try to be consistant with all training, but now I am wondering......... hence this post/poll.

T

When I went to LE firearm instructor training I had already taught myself to trip the slide w/my left thumb. I found the slingshot method to be slow and clumsy. The reasoning behind the slingshot method is that in the heat of battle you loose fine motor skills. The slingshot, so the theory goes, is a gross motor skill, thus you will remember to do it when the bullets fly. But at the same time they teach riding the trigger to reset. That is a fine motor skill. I'm wondering how many officers have been shot because they couldn't find the slide release button? I would dare to estimate nearly none to none. But I do know of officers who had "trigger freeze" during a firefight.

All of what you're saying sounds 100% familiar, they must all teach out of the same book.

Got mine at FLETC. Lots of agencies train there, so pick up what they do. Some of the tactical oriented shooting schools teach the slingshot method too. Personally, I think it's misguided.

And, yep Friday, you're right. It's to train new recruits who may not have ever fired or even handled a gun. Not being gun people, they will only shoot enough to qualify every year. The LE management philosophy is if you can get the minimum score (70%), then you're a competant, well trained officer. That way, if sued, they can say that the officer met the agency's firearm requirement. Not that they were an exceptional shot, or just barely qualified, but just that they qualified and were deemed good to go. I had this go around with my boss. I was trying to get time off to go to matches, saying that competition would help me shoot better. His response was that I was "good enough". Now I'm retired and can go to all the matches my REAL "boss" will allow!

[atmar]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

sometime my 22 will do this also when it doesnt my left thumb does it.

[bberkley]

When my G34 goes to slide lock I reload and the slide automaticly slides forward, it is rare for me to have to sling shot the slide.

This.

I usually drive the mags home with enough force the slide will go into battery.

I rarely run it dry anymore.

[Chuck Anderson]

Couple issues with both methods.

Slide stop lever: The lever is tiny and easy to miss. I've seen very accomplished shooters miss it during training and match and fumble with the gun for a long time. It also doesn't give the slide the full length of travel to drive the round home. I've seen this cause jambs in malfunctions, particularly in dirty or improperly lubricated guns.

Mag Insert/slide goes forward: I really do hate this one. We beat it out of all of our recruits. Couple of reasons. You have the same problem with the shortened length of travel. The biggest one though is it doesn't always work. I've had at least two occasions during matches where the slide went forward upon mag insertion but didn't chamber a round. Probably due to weak magazine springs. Or the slide doesn't always go forward. Shooter is planning for it to go forward, because it does, like 90% of the time. And stands there with a dumb look on his face. Or the shooter who doesn't expect it and stands there with a dumb look on their face. I've actually seen some shooters have the slide go forward and then press check, mid-stage. I teach to always rack (for LE). For competition where the course is planned out shot to shot, it's a toss up because it may screw up your next array if you jack a live round on the dirt. The final downside is the lengths I've seen people go to get the slide forward. I've seen folks hammer the mag into the gun hard enough to dang near knock it out of their hands. Or my personal favorite the mag spanking where they beat on the bottom of the gun when the mag is in to get it to go forward.

Slingshot: This is taught for more reasons than gross motor skills. It is taught becuase it is a consistent motion that has multiple uses. The same motion loads, unloads, reloads, and clears simple and complex malfunctions. The slingshot gives the full force of the recoil spring to drive the slide forward. It is more positive. If you grab the slide and yank back the gun will load, unless there is something else wrong, in that case none of these methods will work.

It's up to the individual shooter. The slingshot is the most positive but takes the most time. The slide lock is less positive but can be very quick. The mag insert/slide forward method is the fastest but least positive. It's your call as to how much you want to risk to gain a chance at time. When I shot the Glock I normally used the Slingshot, even in competition. Now that I'm running the CZ I use the slide release, but it's a lot harder to miss.

[sfinney]

Another part of the common "tactical" thinking is, tied to the "gross motors skills and using the same motion for mutilple things" discussion, is that under fire in a stress situation, gross motor skills are more repeatable than fine motor skills with adrenaline pumping. Grabbing the back of a slide and slingshotting is supposed to be easier and more repeatable to accomplish under severe stress than finding and hitting a slide release lever.

Some advocates of slingshotting also say that pulling the slide fully to the rear and releasing more closely mimicks the normal full slide cycle and is more likely to feed rounds correctly.

Having said that, hitting the slide release will be faster and least disruptive to your grip than slingshotting, in IPSC/IDPA stuff if you have trained for it.

Edited July 3, 2008 by sfinney

[Tattoo]

Hey all,

Just wanted to thank everyone who responded or voted in the poll. I think the input was interesting. Kinda suprised how many people use the ext. slide stop still, it seemed that most changed it out. Plus only one left handed guy out there

We are all looking or should be looking for ways to improve our shooting. I amstill going to slingshot after thinking it over, atleast for now, just becasue I have done 100,000 slingshot reloads over the years and will revert to it due to training. Not a good idea to try and change technics IMHO this close to a set of state matches coming up. But, I will have to think about this for the future.

T

Edited July 4, 2008 by Tattoo

[glock34insa]

My G34 will do it for me with a firm, slammed reload.

+ 1 on my 21, 35, 19, 17.....

+1

[wlktheduk]

Tatoo, I'm pretty sure that there is more then one lefty out here using a Glock....I will admit to using the Glock in USPSA Production, IDPA SSP and GSSF matches, and I am very left-handed.

So for me, at least, I do Glock slidelock reloads by the sling-shot method.

I cannot reliably hit either the standard or extended slidelock on a Glock left-handed. I do not own a Glock that closes automatically when the new magazine is inserted, at least not often enough that I would depend on it happening in a match.

A little thread drifting here. Like some of the other posters here, I graduated from several Firearms Instructor Training Program classes at FLETC. One other reason for teaching the slingshot reload, in a law enforcement training context, was that it worked with any automatic pistol. For agencies that issued a variety of makes and models of pistols, it does help simplify training.

[SA Friday]

Another part of the common "tactical" thinking is, tied to the "gross motors skills and using the same motion for mutilple things" discussion, is that under fire in a stress situation, gross motor skills are more repeatable than fine motor skills with adrenaline pumping. Grabbing the back of a slide and slingshotting is supposed to be easier and more repeatable to accomplish under severe stress than finding and hitting a slide release lever.

Some advocates of slingshotting also say that pulling the slide fully to the rear and releasing more closely mimicks the normal full slide cycle and is more likely to feed rounds correctly.

Having said that, hitting the slide release will be faster and least disruptive to your grip than slingshotting, in IPSC/IDPA stuff if you have trained for it.

Don't get me wrong here. There is nothing wrong with the technique. What is engrained is always the best thing to do IMO. I am simply stating to go with what is the 'automatic' response. Even the slowest technique is faster engrained than having to think your way through what to do.