scirocco38s Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 The guys at the top of the sport dont get as much free stuff as 1 might think. I know several and brass does figure into their budget for shooting. I am not against major 9, and I have 1 that runs good with winchester brass. Mixed headstamps are another issue. My 38 supercomps are just easier to make work and powder selections are larger as well as other issues. Those that like it and it works for them, great. I just dont see it as that much savings in the shooting sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastshooter03 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 (edited) Is there anybody out there using 9x23 yet?? Mine has been ultra-reliable and accurate. I just built a new 9 open mainly for the large amount of brass that we have that was free but also for the reduced muzzle blast. I seem to get a headache every time I shoot the 9x23. Only time will tell if 9 can be as reliable as my 9x23 for me. Like everyone else has said I think the mags will be a determining factor. Nick Edited June 29, 2008 by fastshooter03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herky Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Although I do not shoot Open very much, my gun is chambered in 9x23, brass is expensive but I get most of it back. Other Open shooters don't want it in their mix and they know I am the only one shooting it. Has been very reliable in my 5" SV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 9x23 pretty much came and went. Very few use it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 A hearsay point for those who are motivated by brass costs. I have been told that 38SC can be reloaded more times than 9 so assuming you don't get freebie brass from the range the overall brass cost difference between the two is minor at best. I routinely load my 38s brass at least 8 times. I've had no problem with the brass at all. The range at which I practice requires that brass be policed after every session. It makes no difference what caliber so I would need to pick it up regardless. Sure I pay around 16 cents per case but that equates to about 2 cents of value left when I finally discard it. Who cares about 2 cents per round at a match that I've spent $50 on gas to get to, $20 or way more for an entry fee and $3500 for equipment? If you don't have a free source of once shot 9mm brass (disappearing rapidly given the value of brass for recycle these days), the actual cost to shoot might be greater since it can only be used once or twice more if loaded to major. Even if I changed to the 9mm, I still have to police it at the practice range. It is also a lot harder to reload to a consistent PF because of the smaller casing volume and the increased powder spillage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 A hearsay point for those who are motivated by brass costs. I have been told that 38SC can be reloaded more times than 9 so assuming you don't get freebie brass from the range the overall brass cost difference between the two is minor at best. I routinely load my 38s brass at least 8 times. I've had no problem with the brass at all. The range at which I practice requires that brass be policed after every session. It makes no difference what caliber so I would need to pick it up regardless. Sure I pay around 16 cents per case but that equates to about 2 cents of value left when I finally discard it. Who cares about 2 cents per round at a match that I've spent $50 on gas to get to, $20 or way more for an entry fee and $3500 for equipment? If you don't have a free source of once shot 9mm brass (disappearing rapidly given the value of brass for recycle these days), the actual cost to shoot might be greater since it can only be used once or twice more if loaded to major. Even if I changed to the 9mm, I still have to police it at the practice range. It is also a lot harder to reload to a consistent PF because of the smaller casing volume and the increased powder spillage. XD Niner has it right for a lot of us......9mm open guns have become the "trick of the day" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 While I do shoot 38sc the one advantage I see now to 9mm are 32 round reliable mags. It makes no difference to a shooter like me 'cause I have so many other things to work on, but if you never have to reload that is, at least technically, an advantage of some sort or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 While I do shoot 38sc the one advantage I see now to 9mm are 32 round reliable mags. It makes no difference to a shooter like me 'cause I have so many other things to work on, but if you never have to reload that is, at least technically, an advantage of some sort or another. If you can get that capacity reliably with 9, you can get it with 38sc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 If you can get that capacity reliably with 9, you can get it with 38sc. Shooting a Tanfo. 29 is the max right now. Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 While I do shoot 38sc the one advantage I see now to 9mm are 32 round reliable mags. It makes no difference to a shooter like me 'cause I have so many other things to work on, but if you never have to reload that is, at least technically, an advantage of some sort or another. Where have you seen or heard about a 32 round big stick that will fit the gauge? The best I've heard about so far for an S_I is 31 rounds in either 9 or 38SC and I've heard it's easier with 38SC because the case isn't tapered. Right now I've got 30 round big sticks (38SC) and will hopefully have a 31 rounder soon, 32 seems unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Where have you seen or heard about a 32 round big stick that will fit the gauge? The best I've heard about so far for an S_I is 31 rounds in either 9 or 38SC and I've heard it's easier with 38SC because the case isn't tapered. Right now I've got 30 round big sticks (38SC) and will hopefully have a 31 rounder soon, 32 seems unlikely. Maybe just a rumor but..... http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...8&hl=hsmith Seems to me the sc would be easier to stack to me too, but then again, I am no smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Where have you seen or heard about a 32 round big stick that will fit the gauge? The best I've heard about so far for an S_I is 31 rounds in either 9 or 38SC and I've heard it's easier with 38SC because the case isn't tapered. Right now I've got 30 round big sticks (38SC) and will hopefully have a 31 rounder soon, 32 seems unlikely. Exactly, Super Comp is a little easier to get ludicrous ammo capacity than 9mm, in a big stick it amounts to a little over a half a round plus or minus depending on what the magazine tune is and what gear is being used to complete that magazine. I have heard of one 32 round mag out there from someone that knows they can't sell me anything, but they certainly aren't common. I won't use the base tube that particular mag is based on anyway, so it becomes a moot point. Pop the basepad off your big stick carefully with about 10 rounds in it. Then drop another 20 in it from the bottom and see how much room is left for the spring and follower, then add one more for 31, look it over then add the 32nd round. That will give Joe Public a good idea what is going on and how much work is needed to get the ammo in the mag. Each time we push the capacity of the magazines we get closer to the limit of what the gear will do reliably. Recently we have seen a couple new parts come out that provide extra capacity without negative consequences in a tube that is configured to run those parts. USPSA has set the line in the sand with the mag length allowable, and there is no room left at this point. The parts needed to take the current mag tubes to the absolute limit are on the market and available to everyone. It has been absolutely nuts, the mags that were state of the art 6 months ago are now a round and probably two rounds down on the current state of the art. Thankfully for the people buying magazines I think it has stabilized and won't change much if at all until a new frame and mag design is out. Rumors are running rampant on that front, but nothing substantiated yet that I know of. The Barry mount makes using ratty range brass in a 9 Open gun a lot more reliable. It gets the scope out of the way of the ejected case and allows inconsistent brass a lot more room to get out of the gun and stay out of the gun before the slide closes. It is HIGHLY recommended on a 9mm Open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGentry Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 On the Mag issue - Learning how to perform a quick and efficient reload is better than searching for the ultimate "I never have to reload mag" correct? On major 9 - I think it is a great addition to the option one has for shooting open if you use good reliable brass and stick to it. I saw a case separation at the last match and it cost the shooter the match win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 On the Mag issue - Learning how to perform a quick and efficient reload is better than searching for the ultimate "I never have to reload mag" correct? On major 9 - I think it is a great addition to the option one has for shooting open if you use good reliable brass and stick to it. I saw a case separation at the last match and it cost the shooter the match win. Amen, on that. I have reliable 28 and 29 round big sticks and even reliable 30's but on a field course there has got to be a spot where you can effectively make a reload without a time penalty. As far as I am concerned, if the gun can hold 32 rounds in open then we should change the rule on field courses to be 34 rounds so the reload becomes mandatory without stateing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 On the Mag issue - Learning how to perform a quick and efficient reload is better than searching for the ultimate "I never have to reload mag" correct? On major 9 - I think it is a great addition to the option one has for shooting open if you use good reliable brass and stick to it. I saw a case separation at the last match and it cost the shooter the match win. Amen, on that. I have reliable 28 and 29 round big sticks and even reliable 30's but on a field course there has got to be a spot where you can effectively make a reload without a time penalty. As far as I am concerned, if the gun can hold 32 rounds in open then we should change the rule on field courses to be 34 rounds so the reload becomes mandatory without stateing it. No way should the max go to 34. Reduce the max to 28. Levels the field using what you already own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 On the Mag issue - Learning how to perform a quick and efficient reload is better than searching for the ultimate "I never have to reload mag" correct? On major 9 - I think it is a great addition to the option one has for shooting open if you use good reliable brass and stick to it. I saw a case separation at the last match and it cost the shooter the match win. Amen, on that. I have reliable 28 and 29 round big sticks and even reliable 30's but on a field course there has got to be a spot where you can effectively make a reload without a time penalty. As far as I am concerned, if the gun can hold 32 rounds in open then we should change the rule on field courses to be 34 rounds so the reload becomes mandatory without stateing it. No way should the max go to 34. Reduce the max to 28. Levels the field using what you already own. I dont necessarily disagree, but if the max round count of the field courses was initially to make it where we had to make a change somewhere in the course of fire I would say raise it a couple of rounds. I dont like the idea of lowering it to level the playing field, that is to much like public school lowering the standards so they have a higher percentage of passing grades. I just think that if the original intent was to make it where a reload was necessary somewhere then get the number high enough that no 1 can make a mag within the rules hold the stage max.(large field course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry cazes Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) On the Mag issue - Learning how to perform a quick and efficient reload is better than searching for the ultimate "I never have to reload mag" correct? On major 9 - I think it is a great addition to the option one has for shooting open if you use good reliable brass and stick to it. I saw a case separation at the last match and it cost the shooter the match win. Amen, on that. I have reliable 28 and 29 round big sticks and even reliable 30's but on a field course there has got to be a spot where you can effectively make a reload without a time penalty. As far as I am concerned, if the gun can hold 32 rounds in open then we should change the rule on field courses to be 34 rounds so the reload becomes mandatory without stateing it. I have 29+1 mags and still plan a reload on a stage with anything over 26 rounds. I found that I was running dry too often if I relied on NOT having to make up shots. Edited July 1, 2008 by larry cazes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 If you don't like the 31-rounders, slap 3 pieces of small steel near the end of a 32-round COF and watch the fun. Where the 29+ round mags come in handy is the 28 round COF with 3 steel in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I agree with your comment on adding 2 or 3 small steel or us poppers at 25-30 yard or tight shots also helping take some of the advantage out. I was just thinking outloud that if we raised the max to 34 there would never be a situation where a reload wouldnt be needed. Plus I like the bigger courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I agree with your comment on adding 2 or 3 small steel or us poppers at 25-30 yard or tight shots also helping take some of the advantage out. I was just thinking outloud that if we raised the max to 34 there would never be a situation where a reload wouldnt be needed. Plus I like the bigger courses. Ah, my point is if you make a mandatory reload via round count, everybody just reloads somewhere. No biggie. People like to imagine that Open shooters can't do reloads, but, well, Maku mozo.. The trick is to set a stage where shooters might have to reload. Then the head games come out "do I play it safe or do I push it? Will the time I spend making sure of the shots beat the time to reload over there? Will my competition do a reload? How much will a standing reload cost me if I miss?".. fun fun fun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Has anyone asked the Europeans what they are running in 9x19 major? In IPSC you must run 120gr bullets or heavier. Your 115gr ammo will not be allowed in the World Shoot. I would think asking a top European shooter what is used over there would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 VV powders (N350 but also 3N37 and 38) and loaded long over 124gr bullets seems to be prefered. But in Open, one of the 38 super variants are most common by far. Atleast here in Norway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonAnne9x23 Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Doncha just love the international aspect of BrianEnos.com!!! Blessed Be SharonAnne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I am running the montana gold 121gr bullets for my open gun. Makes major with room to spare even for IPSC with my loads. Not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now