Ben Stoeger

[Lori Casper]

I see this as receiving medical attention, not special treatment. I'm sure this would have been done for any competitor showing signs of heat stoke. I've seen this happen before, regardless of preparation; some people seem more susceptible.

Lori

[Ben Stoeger]

Ben, I'm glad you're feeling better, too. It seems as though you already have a grasp on the concept I was pointing out.

Oh yeah.. I sure do.

Just to put a face to my name, I did sit right next to you at lunch.

[Sharyn]

Oh yeah.. I sure do.

Just to put a face to my name, I did sit right next to you at lunch.

Ah, yes! I remember you. I was contemplating dusting off that area of the table but decided not to because I didn't want to get any dirt on you. I was pretty delirious myself at that time. I apologize for not being more cordial.

Do you know the kid that I was talking to across the table? (Tony) and would you know how to get in contact with him or his parents? I'd like to offer him a trigger job to thank him for lending me his gun and ammo to finish the match.

[Ben Stoeger]

Oh yeah.. I sure do.

Just to put a face to my name, I did sit right next to you at lunch.

Do you know the kid that I was talking to across the table? (Tony) and would you know how to get in contact with him or his parents? I'd like to offer him a trigger job to thank him for lending me his gun and ammo to finish the match.

Uh.... Nope. I didn't actually know anyone at the table. Sorry!

[Franklin D Wolverton]

More than likely what happened is that you weren't completely over your ear infection yet, plus the antibiotics would do crazy things... such as make you more susceptible to the sun. Even if you had been off of them for a few day, they would still be floating around your system a little.

Frank

[lugnut]

I just read this entire thread and watched most of your videos. I have tremendous respect for your efforts in training and your shooting skills. However your class addressing your "treatment" at least matches your shooting skills. Best to you.

However, the heat really got to me as well as nearly every other competitor. Do you think it's fair that you enjoyed the comforts of AC and ATV rides while your competitors toughed it out and helped paste and reset stages?

No, I don't think it was fair. I feel bad about... seriously.

However, I would like to make it clear that I was given no choice in the matter. A doctor happened to be with the squad that I was shooting with, and she saw that I was in trouble. The range officer on the stage informed me that "my working day was over". If it had been up to me, I would have stayed on the stages and helped reset them.

I should also point out that I didn't get the 5 minute stage inspection time. I went up to the stage, and I shot them, then I came back. I had to rely on my prep from the day before.

In any event, if you don't think it was fair, I don't blame you. I don't think it was fair either. I think the key was that the match staff didn't want me to kick off. I can't really say that I enjoyed AC and ATV rides, because I knew I would take shit for it.

Looking back on how well I "managed myself", I really don't know what I did wrong. I drank a bottle of fluid per stage. I started feeling sick about lunch time, but I didn't say anything about it. By my 8th stage, people around me thought I was in trouble, and informed the range staff.

Edited August 4, 2008 by lugnut

[Neomet]

Ben, glad you're feeling better. We met briefly (I was talking with Shawn when you came up but you looked pretty wiped out at the time so I doubt you remember me). I imagine it was, as Jake said a combination of things, but I will say it was hotter than a mofo and you guys who were shooting it in a one day format had it much tougher than those of us who shot Sat/Sun. I'm glad I'm back in Phoenix where only the temp is 100, not the humidity too!

[revchuck]

Looking back on how well I "managed myself", I really don't know what I did wrong. I drank a bottle of fluid per stage. I started feeling sick about lunch time, but I didn't say anything about it.

Ben - What kind of fluid? If it was something like soft drinks, your heat injury was unintentionally self-inflicted.

You need to eat breakfast, drink water and occasional sports drinks, eat lunch, and munch on stuff during the day. The rule of thumb for water is a quart per hour in hot, humid weather. Your urine stream should be clear to pale yellow. If you're not peeing, you have a problem.

I just did a class with Matt Mink this weekend, and I think Matt was the youngest one there (three of the six of us are in our 50s - including me). We went at it pretty steady in 105+ heat index weather. Among the seven of us, we pretty much emptied out two BIG coolers of water and Gatorade. We were whupped at the end of each day, but nowhere near the heat injury stage.

[Ben Stoeger]

More than likely what happened is that you weren't completely over your ear infection yet, plus the antibiotics would do crazy things... such as make you more susceptible to the sun. Even if you had been off of them for a few day, they would still be floating around your system a little.

Frank

That occurred to me. I still had green stuff coming out of my ear every day up until yesterday. GROSS

[Ben Stoeger]

Looking back on how well I "managed myself", I really don't know what I did wrong. I drank a bottle of fluid per stage. I started feeling sick about lunch time, but I didn't say anything about it.

Ben - What kind of fluid? If it was something like soft drinks, your heat injury was unintentionally self-inflicted.

I alternated between G2, gatorade, and water.

[XRe]

Looking back on how well I "managed myself", I really don't know what I did wrong. I drank a bottle of fluid per stage.

It was more than likely a combination of things in the days before the match that contributed to it.

+1... actually, IME, the whole week before....

Frankly, in high heat, I need to basically drink constantly, and eat small and often (Clif Builder Bars, fruit, and nuts work good for that, for me). Its not unusual in high 90s and high humidity to consume 3+ gallons of fluid in a day, for me, and I'm still not urinating frequently enough - but that's about as fast as I can take it in. Invariably, that means a stop every half hour on the way home, but I'd rather do that then die on the range (I mean that quite literally). I bought a Camelbak specifically so that I could keep fluids on me at all times in that kind of weather. Its a worthwhile investment, even if you look ghey wearing it.

Other things I do - bring a large, white towel. You can drape this over your head, neck, and shoulders. Again, it looks dorky, but it works. If its still hot, get the towel wet and wring it out (or not). Be drinking a gallon+ of water every day the week before the match - more if you're exercising or getting out in the sun. Protection of your game in this fashion starts a long time before the match.

Having had heat stroke, I don't think there's any advantage to be gained by suffering from it, AC or not, ATV rides or not. Actually, I'm a bit concerned that they let you continue to shoot without an extended cool-down and rehydration period. Even if you felt a little bit better, you were not in solid shape from a safety standpoint - and actually probably weren't until well into the next day.

Jake's spot on about the fitness angle, Ben. The more fit I get, the better I deal with the heat and its effects. Improve your diet, and your hydration practices, and your tolerance for these conditions will get better. With all the work you're doing on your game, and the level that you're playing at, you owe it to yourself to delve into this area of performance and start doing some work here, too...

[revchuck]

Ben - I just out of curiosity checked out where the people pounding on you about hydration were from...let's see, NM, LA, FL, TX...and you're from WI. There seems to be a pattern here. I guess this is a lesson that we learned earlier due to climate. I can see you in the future as the guy in the Bud Light "Real Men of Genius" commercial, Mr. Rolling Cooler Cooler Roller.

Edited because it appears my brain didn't get the same level of hydration as the rest of my body last weekend.

Edited August 4, 2008 by revchuck

[JimmyZip]

Ben,

Growing up in the desert and doing my service in the tropics, I agree with Xre on the letting you continue angle. You often feel better when you are dangerously close to dying. Sounds dramatic, but is true.

Exercising will make your body more efficient at cooling itself. When I am in shape and in that hot muggy type of environment, (The building our shop is in has giant swamp coolers that bring the temp down to 100 and the humidity up to 80-90%, extruders run at 400 deg. at the die end, hot AND humid) I sweat like crazy. Too much water can cramp you up, too litle can kill you, there is a fine line. The trick with the white towell is a really good one. I use that when I mow the lawn and weed. It also keeps the sun off your neck and cools you where your blood is flowing. If you have short hair I find that putting it on your head really cools you off as you have lots of blood vessels in your scalp.

Hope you feel better and remember this also, for a while you will be more suseptible to this sort of heat injury again. Remember the way you began to feel when you got sick and the next time(hopefully there wont be) just stop, get that towell and cool your body at the neck and wrists. Sometimes strength is knowing when to stop so that you can compete on your best level another day.

JZ

[Al Capizzo]

By the way Ben, congratulations on your 1st place finish

[revchuck]

By the way Ben, congratulations on your 1st place finish

In those conditions - awesome!

[Ben Stoeger]

Jesus.. Lots to think about. Thanks guys.

500 rounds a day, 7 days a week starts today. Should be fun.

[HuskySig]

Ben,

Fantastic result at Area 3. Congratulations!

Having watched most of your Google shooting videos I have a hard time questioning your fitness level. I think that people like you and I who live and train in cooler climates are going to have difficulties when travelling to matches that are in hotter climates. Not much you can do, but drink and eat constently.

Again, congratulations!

mattk

[Jake Di Vita]

One more thing I'd like to add....

Gatorade =

I don't think Gatorade is even any better for you than pop. Learn to love water.

[waxman]

Wow, I didnt know any of this was even going on. I shot the match in a 2 day format, and I thought that was tough. 12 stages must have been brutal. I was pretty happy for once, that I work outside everyday, so I could deal with these conditions. ALOT of people I noticed looked like walking death. 2 of the people I rode with only work indoors, in the AC, so this match was especially tough on them. I wish i had a excuse for my poor performance, but I cant blame the weather. Hope your feeling better Ben.

[Shawn Knight]

I was on Ben's squad and I would like to point out that I have been to locations on this planet that have a lot more sand and a lot more heat and humidity.

Ben did not get special treatment. He got medical treatment. I was the one putting him into the AC room.

You can see his shooting go kind of downhill at stage 4 on his video montage on his website(I shot the video).

Ben was literally "drunk" from the heat. It was clear heat stroke and he needed the treatment he got. He is a trooper and was really putting forth a lot of effort with helping set steel and paste targets before he got sent to the AC room.

I think Ben needs to hit the gym like Jake says and I really think the sauna or steam room at the local gym would be a good idea to get used to the kind of heat and humidity you may deal with in future matches!

[Kevin Kline]

Ben,

I know from living in Florida and working outdoors most of the time, even during the brutal heat/summer w/ heavy packs/gear, your body gets more conditioned to the heat and helps you deal with it a little better. You still cant ignore it, but helps condition your body for it a little better by living in Florida/Arizona and the hotter climates. People living in the hotter climates and dealing with it 8 + months out of the year are better conditioned for the heat, just like you would be better conditioned for cold conditions than I would with you living up north.

Last thing, once you're what we call a heat casualty once, you are more susceptiple to it again so prepare even more for it next time. During our SWAT training days in summer Florida heat with 70lb packs on all day, you really work hard to stay hydrated/protected as much as you can b/c we dont want to be a heat casualty, even once, b/c then we are even more likely the next time. Everyone works really hard to not allow this to happen. We even owe each other "physical motivation" if caught w/out camalbacks or accessible hydration.

This was just your wake up call, you'll do better next time, I'm sure.

Oh BTW, CONGRATS on your Area 3 Production win!!

Also, WAY TO GO SHANNON, VERY FLIPPIN NICE!! I hope you took some video of this match?? Where's it at Sharyn??

[Steve Moneypenny]

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out... But did your medication say anywhere on it to Avoid direct sunlight?

Agree with jake Gatorade now has "high fructose corn syrup" in it. which is terrible on many ways for your metabolic system

a bottle of water per stage... what the.... that's like one an HOUR.

basic rule if you are not using the portalet once per stage at a major match you are not hydrated. just a tiny lack of hydration can cause a slightly slower reaction by the small muscles and the nerves that control your vision.

... slightly off topic... Love the avatar lori!

[PCC-1]

I was on Ben's squad and I would like to point out that I have been to locations on this planet that have a lot more sand and a lot more heat and humidity.

Ben did not get special treatment. He got medical treatment. I was the one putting him into the AC room.

You can see his shooting go kind of downhill at stage 4 on his video montage on his website(I shot the video).

Ben was literally "drunk" from the heat. It was clear heat stroke and he needed the treatment he got. He is a trooper and was really putting forth a lot of effort with helping set steel and paste targets before he got sent to the AC room.

I think Ben needs to hit the gym like Jake says and I really think the sauna or steam room at the local gym would be a good idea to get used to the kind of heat and humidity you may deal with in future matches!

IMO If Ben was "Literally Drunk" from the heat, it seems to me he should have been retired until he recovered. If he was so bad that he had to be ferryied to and from the firing line, then he had no business on the firing line.IMO that is

[Shawn Knight]

IMO If Ben was "Literally Drunk" from the heat, it seems to me he should have been retired until he recovered. If he was so bad that he had to be ferryied to and from the firing line, then he had no business on the firing line.IMO that is

He was well taken care of and he followed all commands properly.

His squad took care of him. Our doctor gave him a clean bill of health and he was allowed to shoot.

[Ben Stoeger]

Ok...

500 rounds yesterday.. 500 more today.

I have begun to apply my new training plan developed after Area 3.

The stages were something new for me.. so I am working the new stuff into my practice. I have already made strides. After a few more weeks of this I should be quite a bit more skilled at this stuff.