Ben Stoeger

[CHA-LEE]

I shoot the EAA Limited pistol and the slide is a lot shorter than most other pistols so grabbing onto the slide and not the dust cover is harder than it would be on a normal 1911 slide type of pistol. I will fiddle around with it though just to see if there is some potential there. It looks fricken sweet when you do it on your gun. You have very very little wasted movement when doing it from the bottom.

[Ben Stoeger]

Yesterday my 10 week movement project continued:

I have to say, setting up to get shooting in matches is much easier now.. Or at least it seems that way.

Today, I went out and did 300 rds on standard drills, but I left my timer at home. I am just focusing on being able to make the shots and be in tune with my gun and what that is doing. I shot pretty well today, but not as well as I would like. (never as well as I would like) I notice that if I am not careful on the distant shots I am tending to throw them a little bit high. That is annoying as hell.

The other thing that is bothering me is my trigger. I set my trigger a few lbs heavier on my practice gun, just to mix it up. That forces me to have better trigger control to get the same results. It sure makes those 30 yard head shots tough.

[Al Capizzo]

It was interesting to watch "Movement Drill Week 1" after watching Week 10. Definitely an improvement. I guess thats the point of practicing.

[CHA-LEE]

Ben> In that last video it looks like your first “Power” step is made on your second step by your leading leg. Try having your “Power” step made by your trailing leg to launch you into motion. This will require a stance that allows for your first “Power” step to happen without shifting your trailing foot around. Manny Bragg showed a group of this method of pushing off with the trailing leg to explode out of a shooting positions and it has made a BIG difference in the aggressiveness of my movements. Maybe you have already tried this? Maybe not? Just thought I would mention it.

[MemphisMechanic]

Ben> In that last video it looks like your first “Power” step is made on your second step by your leading leg. Try having your “Power” step made by your trailing leg to launch you into motion. This will require a stance that allows for your first “Power” step to happen without shifting your trailing foot around. Manny Bragg showed a group of this method of pushing off with the trailing leg to explode out of a shooting positions and it has made a BIG difference in the aggressiveness of my movements. Maybe you have already tried this? Maybe not? Just thought I would mention it.

Clarification please...

What I'm seeing in the 'week 8' video just posted is that Ben is lifting his lead foot off the ground slightly to shift 100% of his weight to the trailing leg. He's then shifting/planting the rear foot, and driving off of it to begin moving.

Are you suggesting something of a 'drop step' technique? What I mean is that the back foot would actually take a step slightly in the "wrong" direction: To move right, you'd lean to the right with your upper body as you turned that direction, and the left foot would move a couple of inches to the LEFT - right foot moving to the right slightly as well, and you'd crouch to bend your legs... Then drive off the left foot.

Basically, Jake's "drop step" technique:

It sounds like that *might* be what you're describing, but I could be wrong. As someone who is very interested in revamping his movement skills, I'd love a little more elaboration.

[Ben Stoeger]

No live fire yesterday… because it was air soft night. We got rained on the whole time, but I didn’t mind because I got to shoot a lot of people.

I have added the Ohio Section and IPSC Nationals to my calendar. It will be cool to get a second crack at nationals in a closer venue. I am looking forward to that.

These matches are funded by doing more teaching. Yays for me.

If the rain lets up a little I am going to get headed out tonight to do some more live fire. You really can’t ever do to much of that can you?

[CHA-LEE]

MemphisMechanic> The way I see it, wasted movement is wasted movement. If you drop your stance down and kick your trailing foot out to reposition it for the “Launch” that is wasted movement and time. Verses, starting in an aggressive stance with your trailing foot already in the correct position to launch. Then all you have to do is “Push Off” with the trailing leg/foot to get moving with the first power step.

Test it with your shot timer. Set a par time one second and launch from a shooting stance using both methods and see which one gets you further away from the start position when the par time elapses. For me, if I use an aggressive stance with my trailing foot positioned for the launch, it beats the tar out of the drop step method when it comes to distance covered in the same amount of time. Maybe I am doing the drop step wrong? Maybe I am a freak? All I know is what I have found that makes a big difference in my movements.

Really though this method of launching really only applies to getting out of a solidly planted shooting position where you have to move a long distance to your next position. Most COF’s are not built that way and have a target engagement order that favors shooting while moving. There is a whole lot more opportunity for shooting while moving during most COF’s so I prefer to focus on perfecting that. Verses work box to box, drag race style entry and exit maneuvers. In a freestyle COF its almost always faster to shoot while moving through shooting positions, even moving slowly, verses run, plant & shoot, run, plant & shoot. If I can engage targets as I move into through and out of a shooting position that will save a tremendous amount of time over hauling ass and planting into the position then trying to haul ass out of the position.

We see what 20 – 30 rounds of Ben’s practice in his video’s? He says that he is using 300+ rounds per practice session. So what we see is probably a VERY SMALL subset of what he is actually training and perfecting. He is the GM, I am not. So he obviously knows how to get the job done in pretty much all aspects of shooting, moving, and what not. I was just trying to offer my opinion. For all I know he has already explored that method of launching out of a shooting position and found it less effective than the drop step method?

[CocoBolo]

I am just going to have to disagree some on this one. First I will agree that the movement drill seems to have about 1/4 to 1/3 second pause in it due to the foot work. The other thing I see is that the gun is being dropped more than I would do. On the run I will generally bring it in some at about chin height and roll the right wrist counter clockwise about 60 degrees which permits a good run (if such a thing exists past age 60), this is approximately reloading position but with the gun canted in rather than out.

Run plant and shoot versus shoot on the move. I use a rule of thumb that says if I have to go there any way and once there I gain a significant distance advantage on targets I could have shot on the move then I will sprint to the spot and take advantage of the easy shots. If targets are tight say protected with no shoots or armor these are not good candidates for shoot on the move due to the difficulty of the shot, open close targets now thats a different story. With an open gun I will do more shoot on the move than with a Limited gun for obvious reasons. I know Ben shoots production, I Ro'ed him at TX Open.

XRE is the methodical stage analyst, he uses his Iphone as a timer and walks the stage each way he would shoot it and compares the times. His secret is he is very good at timing his shots during the walkthru. When he has done this he is sure which way the stage is run best, and I can tell you his time estimate was spot on, and he won the stage.

[Dan Hefta]

Hey Ben, I like what you said on a different topic about a certain section match. You know what I am talking about. Good for you!

[Ben Stoeger]

Hey Ben, I like what you said on a different topic about a certain section match. You know what I am talking about. Good for you!

Yeah… I already got a PM from the shooter in question. Ehhhhh… whatever.

[Ben Stoeger]

I did a couple hundred rounds in the rain today. I did single target drills. Triple six, bill drills, and group shooting. I worked from 7 yards to 50.

I don’t really understand what is happening with my shooting right now. It seemed like I was shooting very slowly but when looking at the timer I was right on pace. I had a couple strings that were frustrating….and one string that was phenomenal. Mostly it was just a good time to get out and shoot.

I will say that I don’t know what it is, maybe I have gotten better, maybe my black bullets are really good… maybe solo 1000 is just the perfect powder for me, but at 50 yards my gun seems really accurate. I think the guns actual group size at that distance is about 3 inches. Of course, I cant shoot it that well, but that is what it seems capable of.

[Ben Stoeger]

I have looked over the banter here about movement, and it is interesting to me. I am using one movement technique in the lateral movement drill, but it isn’t the only one that I know or use.

I think that there are quite a few philosophies on how to get going and how to get stopped, but the big thing I am worried about right now is just being aggressive. Whatever I am doing, I just need to do it faster. As for the other stuff, I will never stop experimenting.

[Ben Stoeger]

I went out and shot a few hundred rounds on a drill from Mike Seeklander that Bkeeler told me I should give a whack. Well I gave it that whack and a few more and had a good time doing it.

Here is some video:

Here is a link to the drill for interested parties:

http://shooting-performance.com/doc/Shooti...ing-Exiting.doc

Due to the relative ease of the shots on this drill, I felt like I was kind of cheating on the technique. I never seemed to get in and out of position the way I liked because I would get shooting and be done shooting right away.

Devotees of the range blog will also notice a lot more smoke than usual. I am using some old high recoil training loads I made awhile back using Tite-Group. They shoot over 140pf, so that is good training for me.

Devotees also may know Hooper. Tomorrow he is getting married. I have to sneak my practice in before I sit through that tomorrow. As you know, shooting comes first.

[bkeeler]

FWIW.

Ben did you use any hard cover or no shoots? The last time I did the drill I put up a couple hard cover targets to make the shots a little more difficult and not be able to leave as soon, like you could get away with using open targets. Also move the targets back farther away. All kinds of variations you can do with that drill. I don't know about you but I was beat shooting this drill after 200 rounds but it was hot and humid when I did it last weekend.(being out of shape doesn't have anything to do with it I blame it on the weather )

Glad you liked it.

BK

Edited August 22, 2009 by bkeeler

[Ben Stoeger]

FWIW.

Ben did you use any hard cover or no shoots? The last time I did the drill I put up a couple hard cover targets to make the shots a little more difficult and not be able to leave as soon, like you could get away with using open targets. Also move the targets back farther away. All kinds of variations you can do with that drill. I don't know about you but I was beat shooting this drill after 200 rounds but it was hot and humid when I did it last weekend.(being out of shape doesn't have anything to do with it I blame it on the weather )

Glad you liked it.

BK

BK,

I just shot the drill according to the setup notes.

[Ben Stoeger]

I went out today and railed on “Lazy Man Standards” a little bit today. I am feeling steady improvement on this exercise, but that doesn’t make it any less frustrating. Shooting this one once a week will definitely put some hair in places you didn’t have it before.

After some dedicated work on reloading and such, I finally feel like I am started to get really dialed in with my new pouches. If I had known it would take this many weeks to get to this point, I would have waited until November to make the change. Live and learn.

I have also been doing most of the daily workouts on jakedivita.com

Some of them are a little bit setup heavy, so I don’t bother with them, but most of them are very doable. I like to do one WOD, then sit a bit, then do a different one from a different day. It is nice to have someone feed you ideas for your practice.

[waxman]

[quote name='Ben Stoeger' date='Aug 22 2009, 09:09 PM' . It is nice to have someone feed you ideas for your practice.

Funny you should say that!

[Ben Stoeger]

Nationals stages are up. There wont be a standards this year… that is a bummer as I enjoyed the challenge last year. In any event, nothing real surprising. It looks like a good time.

Training is now going to consist of shooting hard shots. I am not going to get faster or better between now and nationals. At this point all I can do is shoot tough shooting exercises to get my head in the right place.

I am unconcerned with overall placement. I just want to put together a good match. I want to be able to have no penalties.

Anyway, today’s practice was good prep for nationals. I am feeling good physically and my technical preparation has been good. I feel I have lots more to learn, and a trip to nationals is the best way to learn it.

[HuskySig]

Reloading: Production shooters everywhere know that fast reloads are very important to good stage times. Every sloppy reload I have irritates me. I felt I had quite a few of them last year that were not great. Due to a change in the rules I was able to remove material from my mag well. That, along with lots of practice, has really helped me smooth out the bad reloads. I have seen a marked improvement this year over last.

I am wondering if you could post a few before and after pictures of the modification you made to the magazine well on your Beretta? Thanks!

[Ben Stoeger]

PMed a link to them.

I have them posted... elsewhere.

[Ben Stoeger]

I am out of here... headed to the IL section match.

I am looking to have a good time.

[schmitz]

According to my humble opinion, you're ready to rock and roll Ben.

Go for it!

[Ben Stoeger]

I checked out the stages today. The match has a very clean setup. All the bays are nice and close to each other. The match is fairly low difficlutly I would say. Most of the hit factors should run over 10 if I am on my game. I am expecting all the tension from the high speed stages to get in the way of a good match.

There is lots of heat at the match, but it is spread around between the divisions pretty well. I should have lots of comparisons the the top guys I am able to draw after the match is over.

[Ben Stoeger]

Overall… I am not really very happy with how I did at the match. I made a few big mistakes, dropped more points than I wanted to, and just plain don’t shoot fast enough.

Lots to practice I think.

[Dan Hefta]

Congrats on the win Ben.