Accuracy or Speed

[Ruger_Newbie]

Hi all,

I have a question. Which is more important shooting production accuracy or speed? I'm a new shooter and I trust my accuracy but I know my speed isn't there yet. Any ideas on how I can build my speed up without sacrificing accuracy?

Thanks,

Ruger_Newbie

[Catfish]

Both.

As a new shooter, worry about getting your hits first. Speed comes later.

Speed comes through being efficient. Break everything down that you are doing and remove what is not necessary to getting rounds on target.

Find the better shooters in your area and ask them to show you things you can work on.

[maineshootah]

Hi all,

I have a question. Which is more important shooting production accuracy or speed? I'm a new shooter and I trust my accuracy but I know my speed isn't there yet. Any ideas on how I can build my speed up without sacrificing accuracy?

Thanks,

Ruger_Newbie

You are shooting minor PF in Production, so you need ALL the points you can get.

Accuracy first, speed second.

What area do you need to increase your speed?

Follow up shots? Transitions? Box to Box? Draw?

As you get more familiar with your acceptable sight picture, your shooting speed will come.

As you shoot more matches and know where you want to end up before you get there, your foot speed will come.

Until then, keep shooting those A's!

Welcome to the forum.

[FranDoc]

I also am relatively new to USPSA, just starting my 2nd year in competition.

A reliable (GM) source advises that the focus be on '2 Alphas', time will take care of itself. I've been hearing that for 5 months, and it's finally starting to sink in. [Example: club match a couple of weeks ago, I got 96% of the available points. Not blazingly fast like my Open counterparts, but as quickly as I could confirm sight picture and call the shot. It was good enough to finish 1st in Production.]

Time diminishes with practice. Really push the par times in dry fire (advice from the same GM). Get Anderson's dry fire books, available either directly from AndersonShooting.com (on the dealer's forum) or through Brian's store on the home page here. Burkett's website (dealer's forum) has dry fire drills, as do several others.

Make up dry fire drills, stick up targets in your basement - garage (see Pharaoh Bender's 'dry fire garage dojo*' - photos here on the forum) - or assorted places through the house (see Dave Re's home 'field' course at DR Performance on the dealer's forum). * = links elsewhere on the forum to reduced-size USPSA and popper targets.

I'm finding that I get faster as I push the dry fire (thank you, Steve). Bring the timer down by 0.1 in increments and make yourself keep up. Per the coach, push the speed in dry fire & in live-fire practice. In matches, it's 'call the shot' and trust that the physical training will keep up with the visual input.

It's really surprising the first time that you realize you've done a trigger press when the visual input was right, but you didn't have to think about it a lot first.

Ask the local GM's for help, or a formal class. I've found them very generous with their expertise and most willing to help a newbie build skills.

[JakeMartens]

practice

Speed comes from alot of things, not just pulling the trigger

draw speed

target and sight alignment

moving thru the stage

and reloads

I am a B class shooter across the board, L10, Single Stack, Production and Limited

I can pull the trigger and get the hits just as fast as most, but where I am slow is the draw, the first shot, and moving through

the stage.

Once you have the accuracy, the speed will come on the trigger, as long as you keep the basics the same of sight alignment, and knowing where the gun and the sights are on the target (calling your shots)

Practicing your draw is a big help, you need a timer or something that you can react to. There was a program for a computer that had the beep (think it was on Matt Burketts sight)

reload practice is huge, hitting reloads is a must. You can practice this at home, but remember most reloads are done moving in a match, just standing and doing reloads help and is a start, but adding moving is huge.

Which all this brings us back to practice.

Shoot some matches, see where you are needing the most help and then practice just that for a couple of weeks.

Most of all have fun

[Odie]

Neither. Balance. Consider hit factor is the number of points you earn per second. Blurry speed with no points earns you a crappy hit factor. Nail driving accuracy so slow you have to go shave after the stage earns you a crappy hit factor. Read Brian's book if you haven't already. 90 to 95% of available points is your goal. I've had another big time GM tell me that changes to 95 to 98% if you want to run with the big dawgs. The difference between Gods and mortals is they can burn down 98% on a stage in the same time we can toss 8 mikes. Balance is the key. My personal mantra isn't "shoot as fast as I can". It's "shoot ALPHAS as fast as I can". Usually it works out pretty nice.

[Ron Ankeny]

There are times that I'll turn my visual acceptability down a bit in Open or Limited. Like when the hit factor is going to run 10-12. But in Production? No way can a person start shooting 90 per cent of the points in the quest for speed. Minor scoring sucks for split monsters and transition freaks.

[Shawn Knight]

Well I did this really really fast.....

I am not a bad shooter either. I am just trying a little too hard to break my speed limits. There are 2 hits in the A-zone too. I just went too fast. You have to match your skill level with getting hits. A-zone is really the only way you can win shooting production.

[warpspeed]

For production I'd say accuracy.

[jrguar]

Concentrate on shooting as many A's as possible. Starting out be SAFE, be slow, be deliberate, be accurate, me mindful of what you are doing. It is just 6 things but you will be surprised how well you do, the guys you shoot with will be glad to help you out and the more you do all of that the faster and smoother you will become.

If it has been said once here it as been said a bgillion times.... "Slow is Smooth, Smooth is FAST".

Good Luck-Be Safe

[spook]

You will kick so much ass if you shoot 95% of the available points... for the entire match. You will have to be consistant throughout the match.

Stick with shooting points and have the balls/patience to stick to just that.

Many shooters will stick to their points strategy and somehow have a moment of weakness, throw a mike/penalty or even a couple of D's and this nullifies the whole previous strategy of getting the points in reasonable times.

[Bigbadaboom]

Accuracy/Points is #1 in Production. This is coming from a pretty fast but not so accurate Prodution shooter who keeps getting his butt kicked by slower but more accurate Production shooters.

Here's a really good example of a stage I though I smoked on until the results came in. Notice the B class shooter (Who shoots consistantly accurate by the way) shot the stage almost 8 seconds slower than I did but beat the crap out of me in points. If we had been scored major pf I'm pretty sure I would have beat him even with the miss.

Get the points and the speed will come. You have to always design your speed around you accuracy because you can't design your accuracy around your speed.

1 McCulloch, Brad 61 A Production 135 0 25.63 5.2673 145.0000 100.00%

2 DeGracia, Jeff 36 GM Production 129 0 25.60 5.0391 138.7180 95.67%

3 Wallace, Bruce 58 M Production 130 10 25.47 4.7114 129.6970 89.45%

4 Sanabria, Joel 55 B Production 139 0 30.54 4.5514 125.2925 86.41%

5 Cook, Daniel 30 A Production 112 10 22.78 4.4776 123.2609 85.01%

6 Elmore, Patrick 37 B Production 121 0 28.08 4.3091 118.6223 81.81%

7 Corley, DeBee 51 B Production 133 0 31.34 4.2438 116.8247 80.57%

8 Plumer, Dean 34 C Production 137 0 32.39 4.2297 116.4366 80.30%

9 Markland, David 52 B Production 131 0 31.05 4.2190 116.1420 80.10%

10 Owen, Donald 62 C Production 127 0 30.43 4.1735 114.8895 79.23%

11 Murphy, Bryan 29 U Production 133 0 35.13 3.7859 104.2195 71.88%

12 Hammond, Mack 59 A Production 124 10 30.60 3.7255 102.5568 70.73%

13 McCune, Bill 63 B Production 131 0 35.82 3.6572 100.6766 69.43%

14 Kaewplang, Ann 35 C Production 124 10 33.16 3.4379 94.6397 65.27%

15 Gibson, James 27 D Production 119 0 34.86 3.4137 93.9735 64.81%

16 Crotty, William 32 D Production 129 0 38.16 3.3805 93.0595 64.18%

17 Dembkoski, Jason 54 U Production 111 0 33.39 3.3243 91.5124 63.11%

18 Messina, Todd 57 C Production 123 0 37.23 3.3038 90.9481 62.72%

19 Crotty, Zackary 31 C Production 106 10 29.79 3.2226 88.7128 61.18%

20 Snyder, Daniel 49 U Production 115 0 37.00 3.1081 85.5608 59.01%

21 Hudson, Jim 38 U Production 121 0 39.08 3.0962 85.2332 58.78%

22 Stimpfling, Bob 53 U Production 116 10 35.21 3.0105 82.8741 57.15%

23 Jones, Nick 56 U Production 98 10 33.02 2.6651 73.3658 50.60%

24 Bailey, Jim 26 U Production 108 10 40.59 2.4144 66.4644 45.84%

25 Conn, Patrick 28 U Production 133 0 56.76 2.3432 64.5044 44.49%

26 Fronek, Brian 48 U Production 136 10 59.46 2.1191 58.3353 40.23%

27 King, Donald W. 60 D Production 101 0 53.85 1.8756 51.6321 35.61%

28 Laguna, Ray 33 U Production 129 0 68.84 1.8739 51.5853 35.

[Skywalker]

Accuracy, speed will follow up.

If you're not scoring mostly A's, then you'll have to run a lot faster, to keep up with accurate guys, than with major scoring.

2 As in minor are worth 10 points, while an A-C only 8: this means that you'll have to score an A-C in 20% lesst time of the guy who scored 2 As to get even.

In major scoring, an A-C is worth 9 points, thus you will have to run only 10% faster.

[bruce282]

You will kick so much ass if you shoot 95% of the available points... for the entire match. You will have to be consistent throughout the match.

Stick with shooting points and have the balls/patience to stick to just that.

Many shooters will stick to their points strategy and somehow have a moment of weakness, throw a mike/penalty or even a couple of D's and this nullifies the whole previous strategy of getting the points in reasonable times.

Am I correct in assuming (there's that damn word again) that the 95% is referring to my actual points on the stage rather than my awarded stage points?

Bruce

[spook]

Accuracy, speed will follow up.

If you're not scoring mostly A's, then you'll have to run a lot faster, to keep up with accurate guys, than with major scoring.

2 As in minor are worth 10 points, while an A-C only 8: this means that you'll have to score an A-C in 20% lesst time of the guy who scored 2 As to get even.

In major scoring, an A-C is worth 9 points, thus you will have to run only 10% faster.

Let alone 2 C's on a target with minor... Wow, that would be a 40% speed incrase to just break even...!

You will kick so much ass if you shoot 95% of the available points... for the entire match. You will have to be consistent throughout the match.

Stick with shooting points and have the balls/patience to stick to just that.

Many shooters will stick to their points strategy and somehow have a moment of weakness, throw a mike/penalty or even a couple of D's and this nullifies the whole previous strategy of getting the points in reasonable times.

Am I correct in assuming (there's that damn word again) that the 95% is referring to my actual points on the stage rather than my awarded stage points?

Bruce

Bruce, yes, sorry I didn't clarify. I meant 95% of the available points you can shoot. That's the only objective parameter a shooter can influence when shooting a stage. How well you do to other shooters, is something that you, as a shooter, can't influence directly.

Edited March 7, 2008 by spook

[The Antichrome]

Accuracy develops confidence.

Confidence develops speed.

Its doesnt work as well in the opposite direction.

[Shawn Knight]

Accuracy develops confidence.

Confidence develops speed.

Its doesnt work as well in the opposite direction.

I don't believe that. I really think that you can go fast all you want and be very confident. You can gain accuracy over time and get better with practice. No matter what you are concentrating on you can always count on that fact that both are important in this sport.

[Ramas]

Production is all about the points! POINTS are divided from time, not opposite way. Also it depends on stage tactics, when HF is over 10 you will need speed, but I did not see a lot of stages with 10 or higher HF here in Europe, so again, you should shoot points, that means accuracy.

I saw you could shoot the same local club match is USA twice. Maybe then you should experiment a little bit. Shot one turn as fast as you can and on second run shoot as accurately as you can and compare those two runs. I can bet, that your overall standings will be better when you shot accurately.

[benos]

It's "shoot ALPHAS as fast as I can"

.

+1 That was my guiding principle for most every stage. With any gun in any class. I only cared about a hit factor after I finished a stage.

be

[Skywalker]

I guess I didn't explain myself correctly.

I mean, there's no point in giving up accuracy (i.e. accepting less visual inputs, or breaking the shot as soon as the front sight is on brown) to try and shoot faster, since even the slightest sights misalignment (a Charlie instead of an Alpha, 3 points vs 5) is going to cost a 40% increase in speed to get even.

Let's assume you can score an A hit in a .25s split, this is a 20HF: if (by chance) the hit will only be a C, you will need a 40% speed increase, i.e. a .15s split to get even. As you can see, there's plenty of time to score that A.

The balance is worse with minor scoring than with major, (C vs A is only a 20% points loss), where in some cases it might be acceptable.

When I said "accuracy, speed will follow up" I meant exactly that: shoot for As, with whatever speed comes out.

[R.Elliott]

Try not to think at all in terms of speed. Thinking about trying to go faster just seems to induce tension and feelings of angxt ("I must hurry"), which are counter-productive in the quest for higher hit factors. Rather, think in terms of efficiency and saving small increments of time. Moving smoothly and efficiently in and out of shooting positions, doing only that which is necessary to get to the actual shooting, and shooting only as fast as you can call your shots will be the path to shorter (faster) times on stages.

[Ruger_Newbie]

Thanks All,

You all have really helped me with the understanding of this, and on the Outdoor Channel last night, I think it was on Guns and Ammo TV, Todd Jarrett and Rob Leatham talked about this exact topic and seeing it actually visually really helped reinforce it in my mind. I think I have a really good grasp on this now.

Thanks again u all,

Ruger_Newbie