grywlfbg Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Here is another picture of a Iron Sight/Fiber Optic (Limited/Tactical) Saiga 12 that Millennium Custom makes.Jack What matches allow S-12's in Limited/Tactical? I had always heard mag-fed guns were in open regardless of optic package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The HIGH PLAINS SHOTGUN CHALLENGE, http://www.highplainsshotgunchallenge.com/ trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 The HIGH PLAINS SHOTGUN CHALLENGE, http://www.highplainsshotgunchallenge.com/trapr Trapr, Your match seems to be the exception. You also have creative stages to not let any action type have a large advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Dan, Kurt and I are always the exception to the RULE!!! trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Just a note...the R and R Multi-Gun (Albany, OR in July) is going to allow a limited Saiga into the Tactical class, they will all be scored (all Scoped Tactical) together but awarded seperate. Of course the match needs a couple of Saiga SGs to round out a Sub-Division. I don't see this as a problem since they have about 5 Limited Shot guns at the local 3 gun matches every month in Oregon. I guess the R and R match is an exception too! RLTW, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Q Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Here is a picture of the Saiga 12 from Millennium Custom. Pretty neat gun.Jack Jack does outstanding work. These guns are extremely nice and built to run. Edited January 26, 2009 by Greg Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 LaRue Tactical is also allowing Saigas (no ports or optics) to run with the tubers In my studied opinion, the mag fed guns allow the shooter to skip much of the loading practice that makes some folks known by funny nicknames usually associated with jokes about blindless and hairy palms and get right to the shooting. However, if the time saved by the reload is given up on transitions and target aquisition/engagement while shooting, it doesn't matter what platform is being used when the results are tabulated Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 For now I will not shoot any match that allows mag fed shotguns in tactical class. If that ever becomes common place, I will not shoot 3-gun at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 You could get with the program and get one of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 You could get with the program and get one of your own. What program? The "I am too lazy to practice shotgun loading." program? Or "lets kill off a skill" program? Or is it "lets make everyone spend a crapload of money to stay competitive" program? I am not interested in any of these programs. Saiga belongs in the open class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hmmmm.... Even modded out my Saiga cost me a little less than my bone stock FN SLP Mk I and Winchester SX2. Only thing that might drive up the price is having a duffle bag full of 12 round mags and 20 round drums. Saiga 12 is simply a different way to achieve the same end result. At a recent 3-gun match in LA I finished up about 1 second overall, me shooting Tac Optics, to the match winner who shot open with a Saiga. I don't see it as that big of an advantage. But it is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Cost of mags naturally has to be included. Without mags saiga is a rather poor club, not a shotgun. In our local tactical shotgun match I came in 8th out about 50 shooters. I was running a mossberg pump. I came in first in the pump class, got beaten by 3 limited shooters and four open shooters. One of the four open shooters was my friend running a Saiga. However, I practice shotgun regularly, He barely does. He still came in 5th overall and 4th in the open class and the only limited shooter above him was the limited winner. That right there tells me that Saiga offers a decisive advantage and would dominate the tactical class in 3-gun. I do not see how our sport would benefit from that. Hmmmm.... Even modded out my Saiga cost me a little less than my bone stock FN SLP Mk I and Winchester SX2. Only thing that might drive up the price is having a duffle bag full of 12 round mags and 20 round drums.Saiga 12 is simply a different way to achieve the same end result. At a recent 3-gun match in LA I finished up about 1 second overall, me shooting Tac Optics, to the match winner who shot open with a Saiga. I don't see it as that big of an advantage. But it is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 We let the box fed guys into limited last year at the High Plains Shotgun Challenge and none of them won! none were even in the top 8, so I don't see the same thing you do. Ken has it about right, it,s fun but it ain't winning. I guess we will miss you SSLAV. It is time to bring shotguns into the 21 century as well. C YA! KurtM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 We let the box fed guys into limited last year at the High Plains Shotgun Challenge and none of them won! none were even in the top 8, so I don't see the same thing you do. Ken has it about right, it,s fun but it ain't winning. I guess we will miss you SSLAV. It is time to bring shotguns into the 21 century as well. C YA! KurtM That is the great thing about free market. Everyone gets to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) You could get with the program and get one of your own. What program? The "I am too lazy to practice shotgun loading." program? Or "lets kill off a skill" program? Or is it "lets make everyone spend a crapload of money to stay competitive" program? I am not interested in any of these programs. Saiga belongs in the open class. I was not trying to be insulting or offensive guess I was a bit tired when I wrote that. Fine with me if it says in the open class but let me ask you this what is more tactical than a box magazine? I wonder if the same argument was made when percussion cap was replaced with the breach loader? I paid 266 for my S-12, then 125 in part when I saw the weapon I wanted it then started shooting competitivly because I had the gun not the other way around, as for mags I did put several hundred bucks into them however I bought then over the years a few at a time. Saiga shooters are good about sharing mags. I had not yet had the privilage of meeting Ronswin a member of this forum. Anyway while he was in Iraq he let me borrow his OEM 8s talk about community 400 bucks worth of hard to get mags to some one he and never met. When I first started shooting there was a guy at our gun club that was a master of the pump he would always give me a hard time and would stomp me. That is until I got some practice and learned my weapon. Please I am not saying I am the best or even that good but I do know my S-12 and do practice with it. I used to tell people "just because you have a Siaga that does not make you Doc Holiday" Team Saiga humor Edited January 30, 2009 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMAC Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 This thread has really got me thinking. I just purchased a Brazos Pro Sx because I have always wanted an Open style race gun and it should be in my hand in a few days. I also purchased a JP CTR-02 which is a GREAT rifle that I have shot in tactical class. I have an FN SLP Mk1 that is built like a tank and never had a malfunction. But now I am only one gun away from being able to shoot in open class (notice I said "shoot" and not "compete"). Do I get a Benelli and send it to Benny Hill and learn to fiddle with those long tubes that rapidly deploy shotgun shells all over the ground, or do I try to find a Saiga and send to Millenium Custom? I don't know. I'm going to shoot Tactical Optics at Blue Ridge Mountain 3 Gun so I guess I will just watch everyone and ask lots of questions. I'm really in it for the fun, the people, and the adrenaline rush and if I score well, then I must have been lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMAC Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Oops. Duplicate post. Edited January 30, 2009 by DMAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I like the Saiga SG because it turns a reloading contest into a shooting contest. Almost everyone knows it is not how fast you shoot your shotgun but how fast you can reload it. On one stage at the 3 Gun Nationals 2 years ago (Tulsa) we had to shoot 9 rounds of slugs at moving targets and that was fun! Just a pure shooting contest! I for one loved to learn the skill of loading my Benelli and I am a better shooter because if it. I do like shooting the Saiga because it is just more fun and I can shoot more! If I really wanted to learn how to load fast for a SG, watch the Cowboys shoot...wow! I do believe it is the new choice for 3 gun Open Division both for speed and fun! RLTW, Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Q Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 This thread has really got me thinking. I just purchased a Brazos Pro Sx because I have always wanted an Open style race gun and it should be in my hand in a few days. I also purchased a JP CTR-02 which is a GREAT rifle that I have shot in tactical class. I have an FN SLP Mk1 that is built like a tank and never had a malfunction.But now I am only one gun away from being able to shoot in open class (notice I said "shoot" and not "compete"). Do I get a Benelli and send it to Benny Hill and learn to fiddle with those long tubes that rapidly deploy shotgun shells all over the ground, or do I try to find a Saiga and send to Millenium Custom? I don't know. I'm going to shoot Tactical Optics at Blue Ridge Mountain 3 Gun so I guess I will just watch everyone and ask lots of questions. I'm really in it for the fun, the people, and the adrenaline rush and if I score well, then I must have been lucky! Get a Saiga and send it to Jack at MC. It will be money well spent. There are many, many people getting and shooting these as you will see this year. RAAC has said there are another 10,000 S12's coming in presently. You should be able to find some at reasonable prices very soon. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) We let the box fed guys into limited last year at the High Plains Shotgun Challenge and none of them won! none were even in the top 8, so I don't see the same thing you do. Ken has it about right, it,s fun but it ain't winning. I guess we will miss you SSLAV. It is time to bring shotguns into the 21 century as well. C YA! KurtM Kurt, you got it!! It's the shooter, not the gun. Hell, I build the Saigas but I am a better Tac/Optics shooter than I am an Open Division Shooter. I quit shooting Open Division because I felt 10 round tube loaders hanging off my ass were not "Practical". The Saiga 12 Shotgun perked my interest and it has evolved into a very efficient, fun to shoot shotgun. Regards, Jack Edited January 31, 2009 by Jack T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) 1: Where did the clear mag in Greg Q's avatar come from? 2: What mags work with the MC magwell? Edited January 31, 2009 by ken hebert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMAC Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 We let the box fed guys into limited last year at the High Plains Shotgun Challenge and none of them won! none were even in the top 8, so I don't see the same thing you do. Ken has it about right, it,s fun but it ain't winning. I guess we will miss you SSLAV. It is time to bring shotguns into the 21 century as well. C YA! KurtM Kurt, you got it!! It's the shooter, not the gun. Hell, I build the Saigas but I am a better Tac/Optics shooter than I am an Open Divsion Shooter. I quit shooting Open Division because I felt 10 round tube loaders hanging off my ass were not "Practical". The Saiga 12 Shotgun perked my interest and it has evolved into a very efficient, fun to shoot shotgun. Regards, Jack Jack, I spoke with one of your colleagues yesterday at Millenium Custom and I'm on the waiting list for one of your Open Saigas! I hope that I end up enjoying shooting open more than you did and I'm sure that having the Saiga will help that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 1: Where did the clear mag in Greg Q's avatar come from?2: What mags work with the MC magwell? Ken, Those are Glass Filled Opaque (Limited Run) from AGP. Both the Surefire and the AGPs will work with the MC Magwell, although they are somewhat differenent in outside dimensions and require minor modification. Regards, Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Gladstone Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Jack What is the advantage of the MC magwell? Does it change the way mags are inserted? Noah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Jack What is the advantage of the MC magwell? Does it change the way mags are inserted? Noah Noah, Yes, it changes the way they load. The typical AK 47 receiver without a magwell will utilize what is known as the "Rock N Lock" means of loading the magzine into the receiver. With the magwell, you just insert the magazine into the magwell and lock it just like a AR-15/M-16. When properly fitted, the magazine will also drop free when the mag release is pushed. Regards, Jack Edited January 31, 2009 by Jack T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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