Have you guys read this comparison of Hornady LnL AP to Dillon?

[boz1911]

I own one RCBS, one Hornady, one Dillon 550 and one Dillon 1050. Care to guess my favorite?

Hate to say this in front of PB but go BLUE!

[charliez]

+1 had a LnL for 2 weeks, messed around with the weird ejector wire with great aggravation, then returned it. Went to BE for my XL650, loving it very much!

[KeithB]

i had a hard decision between a 550B and LnL , so glad i went Blue

[cnjaxx]

i had a hard decision between a 550B and LnL , so glad i went Blue

I said it once, and I'll say it again " I wouldn't bave anything but a Dillon"

[98sr20ve]

I don't know how he can be so glowing about the LM. What a pile of crap compared to the others. Then even after he compares the 650 to the LnL and the LnL has issues he choices the LnL for his bench. Made me wonder if he was crazy. Why pick a product that doesn't work 100%.

I will admit to being one of the many that said to Brian E. "After fighting with my LM for a couple weeks I am calling you to get a 550" My LM was good for a while, never great, then it got bad, real bad. 550 has been perfect from day 1. Go blue.

[lugnut]

The only opinions on this topic that mean anything at all to me are from people that have tried both- LNL or Dillon for example. I have the LNL and really like it but I can't dis the Dillon since I've never had one. The one thing that does puzzle me is how people can't get the ejector wire on the LNL to work. I get it sticking once in a great while but it's usually fine... whereas some just can't get it to anything. Sometime maybe I'll try a Dillon but for now I'm quite happy.

[spook]

My experiences with Dillon are so good, that I won't even consider buying something else. And that means something, because I can be such a cheap bastard.

Two weeks ago I broke the handle on my Square Deal. Dillon sends me a new one, including the ball, set screw and a free copy of the latest Shooting Illustrated. I live in Europe so shipping wasn't cheap either. No charge.

Now that kind of service gets my loyalty.

And I have more first hand stories like that. Just an awesome company. I wish they made everything

[98sr20ve]

The only opinions on this topic that mean anything at all to me are from people that have tried both- LNL or Dillon for example. I have the LNL and really like it but I can't dis the Dillon since I've never had one. The one thing that does puzzle me is how people can't get the ejector wire on the LNL to work. I get it sticking once in a great while but it's usually fine... whereas some just can't get it to anything. Sometime maybe I'll try a Dillon but for now I'm quite happy.

People don't need your validity of a good opionion. All you need to do is read posts like yours and post from many LM users and you know neither machine lives up to the reputation of the Dillon. Even your like for the LnL is stated with a minor caveat that it doesn't always work 100% and you know many others report worse then you. What else do you need to know.

[slavex]

Having played with a LnL a number of times in the last year, I'd have to say they are impressive. If Dillon was really smart they'd come out with a new 1050 with a few new things on it, more upgrades really, like a better priming system (RCBS has the best system with the strips), a better case feeder setup (for better control of cases into the shellplate, and I suppose their own bullet feeder.

[adweisbe]

That article was one of things that contributed to my purchasing an LnL. People try and say that the 650 and LnL are comparable presses, but it really isn't true. The LnL is fine at the price point it is at and has a comparable loading rate but I think it is apples to oranges due to the following differences.

LnL indexes twice as often so ejection can be finicky. It also indexes via pawls that sometimes go out of adjustment depending on the press, not a big deal, but also not a problem on the Dillon which is the epitome of positive indexing. The LnL is smoother because of the two stage indexing but at what cost?

The indexing of the primer wheel on the 650 is more mechanically positive and reliable compared to the primer slide used in the LnL. The LnL doesn't come with a rod to weigh down primers. A trivial thing to correct but something that causes many owners grief.

No roller handle or bullet tray or strong mount. The ergonomics aren't really comparable. I will never go back to a press that is the wrong height and has a ball handle.

The primer punch on the Dillon contacts a steel insert in the frame. The LnL punch contacts the frame itself and can wear a dimple in the aluminum. The fix is simple but it has caused owners some grief.

The LnL bushing vs. toolhead thing is a joke right? I don't really see how one is any faster then the other. I can certainly see the price difference. The cost of Hornady powder inserts was prohibitive and I found that I would not use that feature given the availability of the micrometer insert.

The 650 has a generous spare parts kit available. This is extremely important when you depend on your press to make your practice and match ammo.

On page five of the 650 manual it states

If you ordered your XL 650 for a specific caliber, it comes factory adjusted for that caliber (minus dies) with the appropriate caliber specific parts included. In fact, a Dillon technician runs casings and primers through the machine to check its function.

I know for a fact this was not done correctly with the LnL I purchased.

The LnL is there if you want the same loading rate and cheaper caliber conversions but it does not offer the same feature set. The difference between the two is very similar to the difference between consumer grade software/hardware and enterprise grade software/hardware. They both do the exact same thing but cater to different users and working environments.

I had an LnL for three months (two and a half months waiting for Hornady to send me the shell plate) and I learned enough in that time to know that it was better to send it back to MidwayUSA for a refund then to try and stick it out with Hornady CS. The additional cost was trivial compared to the use I will get out of my press in the years to come.

Edited April 5, 2008 by adweisbe

[Heavy Barrel]

That is a text book example of cabin fever.

I started out with a LNL AP about ten years ago.

And after fighting with everything from indexing paws going out of adjustment, LNL bushing coming loose from the press, primer feed assembly falling apart, to the retainer ring grooves in the linkage pins breaking.

Every time I would call for replacement parts I would be faced with hassles from Hornady, wanting to charge me for the parts.

Prior to Hornady introducing the expander at the powder station, you had to have a separate expander die, which was one advantage Dillon had. You couldn't monitor your loads for squibs.

After learning that Dillon expands at the powder station (before Hornady introduced that feature), that Dillon "doesn't" interrogate you over replacement parts, and the last episode over replacement parts I had with Hornady.

I ordered a 650 from BE and the LNL AP went in the corner were it still sits today......covered in dust.

Edited April 6, 2008 by Heavy Barrel

[Cat355]

I'm glad I went blue. Red was never my favorite color anyway.

[SLM]

I won't even comment!

[Tom S.]

I've never owned a LnL, so I can't make a fair assessment in what the author says about it verses the other two.

Having said that, I have owned two Lees, and a 650, so I will speak from that perspective. It seems like a pretty well written article, and in some cases quite accurate. However, while many of the problems I encountered with the Lees were discussed, some were not. Nor have I experienced the problems with my 650 the author cites.

In all fairness to both the Lee and the 650 though, this article was like comparing the difference between a Cadillac and a Chevette. Both will get you form point "A" to point "B", but that is where the comparison stops. The frequent problems I encountered with the Lee were "show stoppers" while the few I had with the Dillon were nuisances that were quickly resolved. With both Lee presses, I was always correcting something, re-aligning, adjusting and in general dinking with something - usually the powder measure, primer feed or case feeder. With the Dillon, it's "set it and forget it".

If you are not a high volume shooter, and don't load a lot of different calibers, the Lee is an economical option, so long as you understand ahead of time what you getting. If that description doesn't fit you, as I'm sure it won't fit 98% of this boards' members, the Dillon is by far the correct choice.

BTW: for what it's worth, I did the math. At the stated rate of 400 rounds per hour for the Lee, it would take 2,500 hours to reload 1 million rounds. A normal year of 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, minus holidays and some vacation equals 2,080 hours. I'm not going to state the original writer is wrong, but whoever told him that he had reloaded that many rounds on a Lee has credibility issues.

Edited April 15, 2008 by Tom S.

[tomfturner]

Since I have an LnL AP with the casefeed. I found out about the Dillon 650 to late, and am now saving the money to buy one. The thing they don't mention with the LnL is that you can't use a full length die in the last station, and the Hornady "solution" is to remove the case ejector or remove the die. Which is about the time I responded "isn't this supposed to be a 5 station progressive press with an automatic case ejection?". They do have friendly service, but it's JUST NOT a Dillon.

Dillons are expensive compared to the LnL, but you get what you pay for.

[dirtdawg]

Opinions are like _-_-_, everyone has one. Well written piece though.

Hah, I always thought it went like, "opinions are like ssh_les, everyone has one and thinks everyone elses stinks...

[stormbringer]

i had a hard decision between a 550B and LnL , so glad i went Blue

Funny..........I went Red and never looked back.

Checking out the pics in the gallery with people having multiple 550s just makes me shake my head. I mean if it takes that much to change caliber set ups that you need to have multiple presses. WOW!

I just swap out the dies (LNL) and powder charge and I can swap from 9mm to .40 or .223 in about 2 minutes.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[ajg308]

I will be forever in debt to the LNL that I once owned. I started with a RCBS piggyback II that I sold for more than I paid. Then I got a 550, which I still have. A friend sold me a NIB LNL that I fought for 4 months. During that fight I was looking for asnwers and I read somewhere on the internet about a cheap primer tube filler, a vibraprime. I went to Midway and bought one. After filling one tube when it arrived I went to buy another and they were no longer available! Anyway, sold the LNL and bought a 650 to go with the 550. Love them both!

[6-shot]

Have a LnL used to like it, loaded alot of rounds on it, ALSO had alot of problems with it.

Now have two 650's like them way better than the LnL. Wish I had known about Dillon when I bought my Hornaday.

Just my .02cents worth.

Scott

The Hornaday now sits on the floor.

[gm iprod]

Funny..........I went Red and never looked back.

Checking out the pics in the gallery with people having multiple 550s just makes me shake my head. I mean if it takes that much to change caliber set ups that you need to have multiple presses. WOW!

I just swap out the dies (LNL) and powder charge and I can swap from 9mm to .40 or .223 in about 2 minutes.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

No, most people like the RL550 and they went back for more. The change over times for most presses is about the same (once you get your crap together)

I know lots of people (me included) that own multiple Dillon machines. One lady and her husband I know have 6 different Square Deals, they love them, they just want to be able to walk in and go for it (Loading that is )

I know very few that own multiple anything else, they may have lots of presses but not many from the same maker.

Edited October 27, 2008 by gm iprod

[stormbringer]

I must have a gem of a LNL or I am magically powered.

I can pump out 5-600 rounds on it without a hickup......

I do not forsee getting another press unitl I am retired. Then I plan on making my own automated one.(I am a controls tech by trade)

[ben b.]

I'm in the same boat, my LnL AP is going gangbusters. I have had the LnL AP since May, now over 10K combined rounds in .45, .40 and 9mm. It is one of the new ones, and I know they've made a lot of changes and improvements since they intoduced it XX years ago. I previously loaded on a club-owned 550, and a buddy's 650.

His 650 is great, but it's not without problems. The indexing is more jerky and sometimes spills powder on close loads. Dillon indexing rings break, and you need to replace. Hornady indexing pawls need adjustment, you use a hex key and it's quick/easy. I adjust about every 1K to 1.5K rounds. The case feeder on the 650 was good but not 100% perfect. I do like the specific drop tubes on the Dillon case feeder.

This forum is full of problems/issues/solutions with Dillon presses in priming, powder throw, shell plate bolt, handle, etc. Stuff breaks and goes wrong in Dillons, and is discounted as usage or adjustment or something. Same thing in Hornady and it apparently is a "quality" issue. I'm reminded of "Glock's always run,never break" rah rah rah...Totally true, until it isn't.

I do think Hornady decided to adopt Dillon's "no BS, here have some free stuff" CS route. Good move.

I do know I'd take my case-fed, indexing 5 station LnL AP over a 4-station 550 for pistols, anyday. I also know I'd drop my LnL for a 1050 in a heartbeat. If my experience on the 650 is representative, trading my LnL for a 650 would be a "Gain some, lose some" lateral move.

My experience so far,

Ben

[acrashb]

This guy seems a little biased toward the LnL, and right up front he seems to have a gripe with Dillon.

Hi all. Just spotted this (old) thread and thought I'd comment.

On this one, I have no gripe with Dillon - everything they make is great. I currently use a 1200B trimmer and am looking forward to an RF100. I do have a gripe with Dillonophiles for the reasons noted in the footnote on the first page.

[acrashb]

LnL indexes twice as often so ejection can be finicky.

It also indexes via pawls that sometimes go out of adjustment depending on the press, not a big deal

The LnL doesn't come with a rod to weigh down primers.

The primer punch on the Dillon contacts a steel insert in the frame. The LnL punch contacts the frame itself and can wear a dimple in the aluminum. The fix is simple but it has caused owners some grief.

The LnL bushing vs. toolhead thing is a joke right?

In order:

1) corrected for the last year or so the the EZJect system.

2) not on my press, haven't touched the pawls since initial setup. "many" thousands of rounds. I keep them greased - perhaps that's the difference.

3) it does now

4) I hear you - eventually my "dimple" will be deep enough to cause a problem. Then I'll call hornady and see what they come up with.

5) nope. The bushings are faster, cheaper, easier to store and more flexible during load development (just pop in the die(s) you need).

[acrashb]

I don't know how he can be so glowing about the LM. What a pile of crap compared to the others.

Then even after he compares the 650 to the LnL and the LnL has issues he choices the LnL for his bench. Made me wonder if he was crazy. Why pick a product that doesn't work 100%.

In order:

1) It isn't a pile of crap. It's a bargain loader that is comparatively fussy to use. Each to their own.

2) The 650 had issues to, as you'll note from the review. Haven't tested positive for crazy just yet. If I was going with a single, or few, calibres and did almost all production and not much development, the 650 would have looked better.