A couple of questions

[Ed Deegan]

Ok, a couple of questions for the reloaders and some background:

My wife and I are both shooters, and we currently run factory ammo. She has run 9mm, but is interested in shooting either L-10 or L, which means a change to 40. I shoot 45 in Single stack. We shoot probably 2 USPSA matches a month, and 4-5 IDPA matches a month. We just started shooting USPSA (very late 2006) and love it.

We are getting down to the nitty gritty of a decision to reload or not, and it makes sense from a dollars and cents perspective. Our current thinking is a 650 (through our host of course) with a case feeder but no bullet feeder as we want to keep the powder check station. At the current time, we do not plan to load rifles on the machine.

1) How often do you get squibs from your loads? What things besides attention to detail can help to minimize this? Can you scale every loaded round, and is the natural fluctuation between cases/bullets going to obviate this idea?

2) Reloading space, does anyone have a mount that allows them to remove the press fairly easily and install it again when necessary? We have a very small area (10 x 12) to reload, and it is also my shop, with tool boxes, and tools, etc. I have some ideas on how to do it (3 layer's of 3/4" plywood with an insert that the reloader would sit on).

3) I can build the reloading bench to any height I want, so the question becomes, build it lower and use the strong mount, or build it taller and skip that? The space between the safe and the tool box is 7' and I am planning a 30" deep bench. If someone has thoughts about that depth, please mention that as well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Regards,

Ed

[BritinUSA]

1. If you set yourself up so that you can see inside the case after the powder station then you should NEVER get a squib. I sit on a barstool and this positions me so that I can see inside the case as it reaches the empty station (3) which is where you can put the powder check. With the visual check and the powder check you should never have a problem in this regard.

2. The strong mount for the 650 has flanges that you could secure to the bench with four clamps, two in front and two in the back.

3. I would definitely recommend the strong mount. It means that you can mount the press further from the leading edge of the bench which may make the setup more secure and less prone to wobble.

[Merlin Orr]

Ed... IMO you can't go wrong whatever your decision. With that said.

I have had a squib one time. Operator error brought on by bleary eyed reloading while developing a load. I had loaded a few before that happened and have loaded a few since with out ever having another squib. But...It can happen. Again...IMO... there is absolutely no reason to scale every round. Many people here have loaded 10s or, dare I guess, 100s of thousands of rounds without problems. Pay attention, check your powder weights every so often and make sure you keep powder and primers in your machine and you will be fine.

I don't use the Strong Mounts on any of my machines but many do and swear by them. Personal preference. Neither with or without will make a huge difference - as I see it anyway..... Height - you do want the machine mounted at a height that allows a natural swing of the handle without putting you in a bind or creating an unnatural movement or binding. I have my current bench set so my elbow is about shell plate level for a 1050 and a 550 or SDB sets with the shell plate about 1/2way between my elbow and my wrist joint. YMMV with this setup but it seems comfortable to me.

My .02.

[Ed Deegan]

Thanks guys, more food for thought... I really appreciate the replies.

Regards,

Ed

[tgibson]

Ok, a couple of questions for the reloaders and some background:

My wife and I are both shooters, and we currently run factory ammo. She has run 9mm, but is interested in shooting either L-10 or L, which means a change to 40. I shoot 45 in Single stack. We shoot probably 2 USPSA matches a month, and 4-5 IDPA matches a month. We just started shooting USPSA (very late 2006) and love it.

We are getting down to the nitty gritty of a decision to reload or not, and it makes sense from a dollars and cents perspective. Our current thinking is a 650 (through our host of course) with a case feeder but no bullet feeder as we want to keep the powder check station. At the current time, we do not plan to load rifles on the machine.

1) How often do you get squibs from your loads? What things besides attention to detail can help to minimize this? Can you scale every loaded round, and is the natural fluctuation between cases/bullets going to obviate this idea?

2) Reloading space, does anyone have a mount that allows them to remove the press fairly easily and install it again when necessary? We have a very small area (10 x 12) to reload, and it is also my shop, with tool boxes, and tools, etc. I have some ideas on how to do it (3 layer's of 3/4" plywood with an insert that the reloader would sit on).

3) I can build the reloading bench to any height I want, so the question becomes, build it lower and use the strong mount, or build it taller and skip that? The space between the safe and the tool box is 7' and I am planning a 30" deep bench. If someone has thoughts about that depth, please mention that as well.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Regards,

Ed

Ed!! I had to think about it for a minute but I was able to put a face with the name! Travis here. Dennis and I shot an IDPA match with you in VA earlier this fall. Normally I would just send you a PM to say hi, but I have a pretty unique set up with my press so I thought I would respond.

1.I am at about 27,600 rounds loaded on my press right now, and I have never had a squib. I do have a powder check, but the thing is every time before I start loading, I have a little ritual I go through. Load up the primer tubes, fill up the powder tube, spray a little One shot on my cases and fill up the hopper and go to town. I was reallly nervous about going to my first big match after I started reloading, so I weighed a couple of rounds. Not even a .01 gr of change. From then on, I just keep filling up the empty spots and pulling the handle. I am even getting my 9 year old started. I am tired of loading all of his bullets. It's time for him to do his own! (and maybe some of mine )

2. I have my press mouted on a piece of 1/4" plate that is about 20" square. When I get it where I want it, I clamp it down with a pair of 11R's (Vice Grips). When I want to move it, I can pick the whole mess up by myself if I need to. It is pretty cumbersome, but it can be done.

3. I am not lucky enough to have a bench yet so I don't have any thoughts at all on this. The one thought I do have is that the deeper the bench is, the harder it will be to reach the stuff in the back when you are sitting down. 30" is pretty deep! My $.02 FWIW

Good to hear from you. Tell your wife I said hello, and have a great new years.

TG

[DMS42]

My setup is similar to TGibson's. I use pieces of 2X10, 2X12, or 2 pieces of 3/4 in. plywood. I've found that the plywood works better in that it remains flat. I mounted the presses to the pieces of wood then drilled holes near the corners through the mounting wood and into the bench. On the underside of the bench I installed T-nuts. I fasten the mounted press to the bench using 3/8 bolts. You could use wing nuts instead of the T-nuts, but I like the T-nuts. I use a rachet wrench to tighten and loosen the bolts.

My bench is 8 ft. long and has stations for 4 different setups. It allows me to have two reloading presses set up at the ends of the bench then use a sizer/luber, case trimmer or another loading press on one of the two empty slots.

[Ed Deegan]

Hey Travis,

Great to hear from you! Most folks that see me, remember my face in nightmares! I hope that your Christmas was great, and 2008 brings you and your family nothing but peace and harmony. Let me know when you get out this way again, we can hook you up with another match.

My thoughts on the depth of the bench are that I have a drafting table (which is my work bench) in the room now and it is 36" deep. I can reach 27" deep without bending and stretching.

[Flexmoney]

You gotta work pretty hard to get a squib on a 650. Auto-indexing is nice.

(I mangaged my first this year...and it would take me pages of typing to document everything that lead up to it.)

[boz1911]

When I was reloading with my 550 equipped with a strong mount, I made a 1 inch thick wooden plate slightly larger than the strong mount. The 550 was bolted to the plate. I then drilled and tapped my workbench so that I could remove the 550 as an assembly. I countersunk all the bolt heads and washers. Worked great until I bought a 1050.

The most important reloading advice I can give is to look at the powder charge every time. Squibs will not happen if you follow this advice.

[basman]

Ed,

Squibs can be avoided by paying attention, avoiding distractions, and thinking about where you are each time you stop the press. Lots of folks talk about speed and how many per hour. You will find a comfortable pace which allows you to look inside each case.

I have the 650 only stong mount, casefeede and NO powder check die. A flex light attached to station 3, and I look into every case as it goes by.

My bench is a standard countertop 8' long with 2 presses mounted on it. still plenty of room for gun cleaning and amature gunsmithing.

Saving money is great, tayloring the load to you is even better.

We have shot matches at F'burg together before, I live in Woodbridge and have a 550 and a 650. Send me a PM if you want to come over and check them out before you buy.

Jeff

[uscbigdawg]

Ed,

1 - I've loaded about 100k on my 1050 and probably 30k on my 650 and have had 1 squib and it did have powder. It was weird. It was like there was no crimp or something. Basically, and this kind of goes into your mounting height question, I have my presses positioned so that I can look into the case and visually see powder in every case, before placing the bullet (a light behind the press helps immensly).

2 - With 3 layers of 3/4" plywood, you're at 2.25". Find a used building supply warehouse, usually a "Habitat For Humanity" kind of organization will know where and you can find 1-3/4" Solid Core wood doors for under $50. My bench uses a 3' x 7' SC wood door. Paid like $35 for it. From there, I built the frame with 2x4's and 4x4's from Home Depot and they cut the lumber for me. Assembled everything with a drill with screwdriver attachment and a wrachet wrench (there are lag bolts holding the thing for strength....it's way over engineered). My Dad has reloaded forever on a small bench that's about 4' square and uses his bullets and other such items to add weight. Nothing fancy. 4-4x4's for legs, a couple of 2x4's mid-way and at the top for bracing and nailers for the shelf and top.

3 - 30" depth is probably about your minimum with some room behind for "stuff". You'll have a wall too, so don't forget that shelves are your friend. Should be good though.

Rich

[Ed Deegan]

Couple more question's...

The height of the table?

Quoting the great comic Ron "Tater Salad" White, I am between 5'6" and 6'2" tall depending on which 7-11 I am leaving... Seriously though, I am about 5'9", and yes Rich, I am planning very stout... 6x6 legs, 2x6 wraps low and high. My thinking on the table with the 3 layers of plywood, was that I could build an insert to set the loader on, so that it could be removed when I had other things to do on the table. (Table saw, router, whatever...)

Varnish/lacquer for the top? Ease in cleanup? or waste of effort?

I have attached a real quick and ugly sketch for the top details. No scale, and no art critics...

[HSMITH]

Ed, if your bench is going to be small you should anchor it to the floor if it all possible. You can glue down a tile, and then epoxy the legs to the tile, that might be one way to have a less than permanent anchor system. If you can't anchor it you need to weight it down. 300+ pounds isn't going to hurt anything, you want the bench to be SOLID and NOT MOVE when operating the press.

Powder checks, the ONLY ones you can trust are the two in the front of your head. You need to use them on EVERY single round as it goes by. If it doesn't look right, high or low, pull it out of the press and recycle the components.

Overhead space IS a consideration with a 650. I am in the process of putting one up using a strong mount and with the bench at the right height for me and the casefeeder on it is literally touching the steel beam supporting my house (press in the basement, 8' cieling, 8" I-beam). It is BARELY touching but it is touching.

I have loaded several hundred thousand rounds on 550B's and had exactly one squib, and one obviously low powered round that caused me to stop shooting and verify a clear bore. The powdercheck dies in the front of my head are the only way I have been able to maintain that low a failure rate. I have had at least a couple dozen rounds that were pulled from the press somewhere in the process and culled due to something not looking right, but I don't mind that as long as they don't make it into the ammo I am going to shoot.

[charliez]

re: squibs

I'm a relative beginner too, been reloading about a year now. With a 650 and being new to it all despite having the powder check station managed to produce a squib. The culprit was really operator error in not paying attention to the powder check station.

I've since replaced that powder check station with a lock-out die. The die is adjusted to stop the press if there is too little or too much powder in the case.

Mine is an RCBS lockout die, I believe Hornady and Lee have lockout dies as well.

[Allgoodhits]

Ed,

Probably 150,000 rounds on a 650 and squibs could be counted on one hand. 100% operator error due to distractions while loading, or phone call interuptions etc.

It doesn't matter whether you use a strong mount or not, provided two things. One, the height is to your liking and two, that the loader does not move, shake, tilt or rock while you are sizing and priming. Any movement of the machine is not your friend. Movement may cause more energy to load, irratic powder drops or powder spillage, and contribute to case feeder jams.

So mount it to the flight deck of a carrier, or to the bumper of your F350 as long as the height is good for you and it does not move, you are good.

MJ

[dajarrel]

Ed,

I have a 550 and a 650. The 550 does not have a strong mount and I sit at a 36" bench to reload. The 650 does have a strong mount and I stand when I reload on it (my primary reloader.) As others have said the trick to no squibs is looking in EVERY round for powder as it comes by and before you put the bullet in. I have loaded three squibs in the last six years with about 75,000 loaded. Of the three squibs, I know when I did every one of them. (I know in retrospect, I'd have fixed them if I had known at the time.) All three were due to being distracted by something or someone and all three were on the 550. If someone comes in and starts talking to you or the dog comes in and starts getting underfoot, quit reloading until the distractions are gone.

Also, if you pull a handle partway and something messes up, clear the shellplate. A 650 will advance on half a pull of the arm. Clearing the shellplate will enable you to start over and ensure everything is right.

With just a little care you can load many, many rounds and maybe you'll never hear the "pop" instead of the bang.

just my $.02 worth

dj

[vernbo]

Your thinking on scaling every round would likely not find any squibs

As others have said - power check- good lighting – look in cases before seating bullet in station 4 -.

If you follow this post in reloading benches it explains how to make your loader removable

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ches&st=650

Your question about strong mount asks about height. I’m 5’ 10’’ and stand when loading.

my press has Brian’s the way it should be strong mount, roller handle ,bullet tray.

I say this because I constructed my bench after measuring where the roller handle would be at the down position, and worked backwards from there 36’’ to top of bench about 30’’ to top of handle.

And make sure the bench is very sturdy, the case feeders work better with no shake.

That’s why it’s called a strong mount not an add height or remove height mount.

[BayouSlide]

Also, if you pull a handle partway and something messes up, clear the shellplate.

Look in every case for powder (add a light to help make it easier to see) and follow the excellent advice above and you'll be fine...My only squib in 16K rounds on my 550B could have been averted if I had always followed that advice--or at minimum checked each station---after an interruption or a press hang-up. The only time I disregarded it, cost me a zeroed stage at a major match due to a squib.

[BSeevers]

Desk light and looking at cases is the key to no squibs

You have more reloading space than I need

[Chris Keen]

Ed, I looked at your drawing and I dont believe that will do what you want it to. If you think the press will slide in and out of some sort of groove (similar to the toolheads they use) I believe the cartridge bin bracket (on the right) and the casefeeder support bracket (on the left) will be in the way. Maybe you can check with some local folks to give greater detail.

I bought a standard (short) kitchen counter-top (4 feet long) from Lowes / Home Depot for under $50 and the built my bench out of 2 x 4's. I did NOT use 4 x 4's or 6 x anything's when I built my bench. I simply cut 8 2x4 legs and then used 2 at each corner (in an L shape) to provide the necessary strength. Of course I added a shelf on the bottom, on which I store all my bullets and empty brass to give some extra weight to it all. And I would bolt the whole thing to the nearest wall to give it maximum stability, but a good solid bench with lots of weight on the bottom should be plenty.

And if you're undecided about having enough room for a reloader because of your tools ...... Well, it sounds like you haven't decided if "shooting is for you". You see I don't have enough room for my TOOLS because of all my reloading eqpt.

Edited December 29, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN