midvalleyshooter Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I am considering shooting my 1911 chambered in 45 ACP in ESP. IDPA legal or not? I would use a hand load similiar to the classic Bullseye loads, that is a 185 or 200 grain semi-wadcutter and a modest charge of Clays or Bullseye. I know I will get eaten alive by the ESP sharks shooting 9mm, 38 super, 40 S&W with thier 9+1 set ups, but I will attempt to persevere. Along these lines I recall a discussion of mags that hold 9 in 45 for a 1911 that stick out of the pistol a bit, but also fit in the box. Legal or not, and if its legal how much hassle and inspecting can I expect from the powers that be? I have used a lot of 230 grain ball ammo loaded to major in the past. For me this ESP thing seems like a fun way to get some more use out of the old 45. Thanks in advance, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Hello: If you shoot a 45 in ESP you will do just fine. There are mags that hold 9 rounds of 45 and still fit in the box. Ask JoeD about them. Those big 45 holes may even help out if you shoot like me. You may find CDP a better choice since there are usually less people shooting it ;-). Now get out there and shoot. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) Any gun that meets SSP or CDP requirements can be used in ESP. It always helps to know the rules and have the rulebook handy, esp. pages 21 and 22 in this case. You can download a copy for free at: www.idpa.com. I can't imagine any match being contentious over that particular issue. Enjoy, Craig Edited November 29, 2007 by Bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 It is within the rules, and fun to do. If you fabricate some 9 round magazines, you will actually be ahead of the guys shooting 9-round 9mm 1911s because of your bigger bullet holes. That alone is good for some points as you clip lines that a smallbore would not touch. Joe D says he gained six points on that one day, but I found two or three is typical. I have not yet got a NT hit by clipping the line. You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad. Joe D rolled the edges of his cutoffs for slide-on floorplates. Or you can shoot at 8+1 for the fun factor. It will cost you an occasional reload along with the CDPs, but that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad. But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Can you cite the IDPA rule to that effect? I do not see it in the specifications for ESP or the general disallowed list, or in a quick search of the rest of the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad. But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame. Yes? Steve, I believe the answer to your question is "No" That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 He is probably coming from USPSA Single Stack, where it says: "Magazines in this division must be of standard length, excluding base pads. No extended magazines may be used. No modifications may be made to base pads to increase magazine capacity." There is no such language in IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichiganShootist Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 It's not a 1911 solution.... but I saw several guys running Glock 21s in ESP last year. That gets you to the 10 + 1 loading and a 230 grain bullet at under 600 fps should produce about the same recoil as a .22 LR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I sometimes run a Para P-14 in ESP. A 200 grain bullet at 130 + power factor is a real pussycat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary1911A1 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I sometimes run a Para P-14 in ESP. A 200 grain bullet at 130 + power factor is a real pussycat. Now that would be the way to go. No messing around to build 9 round mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I thought I had a double stack .45 ESP in the works but the "gunsmith" has apparently absconded with my money and parts. I wouln't have thought you could skate to Brazil on the value of a buildup, but he apparently has. Not seen, no reply on contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I have often thought that the 45 is ESP is the way to go. Load them light and go to it. I have been looking at the XD in 45 as a gamer gun for the ESP Division, not all the problems associated with the 1911 platform, XD holds 10 rounds in the mag, big holes, and reload them soft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I know my local match director will screw you with his stages quite often. He will deisgn them as such to where 10+1ers can't miss. Well if you shooting CDP everybody has to reload. If your shooting ESP with a ESPish gamer gun with 10+1 you can't miss. If your shooting a gamer 1911 with 9+1 be it 9mm or .45 well ya just got screwed with an extra reload. Would I run my .45 with 8 round mags in ESP, hell ya I would and you had damn well not let me beat you while I'm at it! Would I down load my .45, probably not but that is just me as I'm used to shooting major and I would rather stick to what I'm use to. Is .45 downloaded soft....like a fluffy winter duck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 Hello: How about a single stack 40 that holds 10 rounds +1. That messes things up for the 9mm guys ;-) I have 40 single stack mags that hold 8,9 and 10 rounds. The double stack STI's are the best gamer guns. Merlin has a 2011 45 that he wants to shoot in CDP or ESP. I think that would be the best of both worlds. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 If you think about it for just a minute you will realize that a plain old Wilson 8 round mag will work for most IDPA stages. Most stages, except for the ones I design, are usually 15 rounds or less. You start with 9 in the gun plus an 8 round reload mag. A .45 loaded to a 130 pf with a 200 gr SWC is pretty soft shooting. I plan on shooting my .45 at a local match this weekend. I can start with 10 in the gun plus a 9 round reload. I know I am a Glock fan, but I like to "play" during the winter months with a different gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad. But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame. Yes? Steve, I believe the answer to your question is "No" That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack? Craig He is probably coming from USPSA Single Stack, where it says:"Magazines in this division must be of standard length, excluding base pads. No extended magazines may be used. No modifications may be made to base pads to increase magazine capacity." There is no such language in IDPA. I stand corrected. As long as it makes weight and fits in the box. The crossover corruption actually came from the Single Stack Classic rules from which USPSA borrowed heavily. Thanks for making me dig back through the rule book. Very creative idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 This has been hashed out before here on this forum already. Granted the thread is about a year old now, but it might be worth reading: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41602 I haven't tried loading bunny fart .45 loads (with heavy bullets) NOR have I tried shooting very light weight bullets at a whatever velocity to make PF ( of 125 +). Some will say the gun cycles too slow for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Don't believe that nonsense about "waiting on the slide". There is not a person alive that can pull the trigger faster than the slide will cycle. A slow heavy bullet just feels different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 Don't believe that nonsense about "waiting on the slide". There is not a person alive that can pull the trigger faster than the slide will cycle. A slow heavy bullet just feels different. +1 I built a .45 1911 with an extra heavy slide and was told that it would cycle slow. The gun fires 11 splits and it's still waiting on me. Like you said, I think it's more perception than fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockrem Posted November 30, 2007 Share Posted November 30, 2007 I like JoeD sample some different guns in the winter months. Just purchased a 3906 S&W. Single stack 9mm 8 plus 1. I think it will be a lot of fun. D/A trigger make you a better shooter when you get back to a smooth trigger. The old S&W auto is hard to beat for plinking and having fun on the range. rockrem Huntsville alabama Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midvalleyshooter Posted December 1, 2007 Author Share Posted December 1, 2007 Thanks for all the input. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPC Eljay Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 +1 on the ESP 45. I shot all of 07 with my Kimber BP 10 II with 200gr SWC at about 135PF. The big holes are nice and they saved me quite a few times, a 9 would have dropped points or worse missed a few sloppy heads, though I did hit one non threat that I hould have missed. BTW I'm really happy with that gun ($500 NIB) but I've never seen another one anywhere. More than once I was questioned about my Division when the SO sees 1911 but hears 11 rounds before a reload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted December 3, 2007 Share Posted December 3, 2007 You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad. But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame. Yes? Steve, I believe the answer to your question is "No" That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack? Craig IDPA has always been about gamers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Gamers? Are you saying my spring loaded vest is a gaming device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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