Shoot ESP with 45 ACP?

[midvalleyshooter]

I am considering shooting my 1911 chambered in 45 ACP in ESP. IDPA legal or not? I would use a hand load similiar to the classic Bullseye loads, that is a 185 or 200 grain semi-wadcutter and a modest charge of Clays or Bullseye.

I know I will get eaten alive by the ESP sharks shooting 9mm, 38 super, 40 S&W with thier 9+1 set ups, but I will attempt to persevere. Along these lines I recall a discussion of mags that hold 9 in 45 for a 1911 that stick out of the pistol a bit, but also fit in the box. Legal or not, and if its legal how much hassle and inspecting can I expect from the powers that be?

I have used a lot of 230 grain ball ammo loaded to major in the past. For me this ESP thing seems like a fun way to get some more use out of the old 45.

Thanks in advance,

Keith

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you shoot a 45 in ESP you will do just fine. There are mags that hold 9 rounds of 45 and still fit in the box. Ask JoeD about them. Those big 45 holes may even help out if you shoot like me. You may find CDP a better choice since there are usually less people shooting it ;-). Now get out there and shoot. Thanks, Eric

[Bones]

Any gun that meets SSP or CDP requirements can be used in ESP.

It always helps to know the rules and have the rulebook handy, esp. pages 21 and 22 in this case. You can download a copy for free at: www.idpa.com.

I can't imagine any match being contentious over that particular issue.

Enjoy,

Craig

Edited November 29, 2007 by Bones

[Jim Watson]

It is within the rules, and fun to do.

If you fabricate some 9 round magazines, you will actually be ahead of the guys shooting 9-round 9mm 1911s because of your bigger bullet holes. That alone is good for some points as you clip lines that a smallbore would not touch. Joe D says he gained six points on that one day, but I found two or three is typical. I have not yet got a NT hit by clipping the line.

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

Joe D rolled the edges of his cutoffs for slide-on floorplates.

Or you can shoot at 8+1 for the fun factor. It will cost you an occasional reload along with the CDPs, but that is all.

[Steve J]

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame.

Yes?

[Jim Watson]

Can you cite the IDPA rule to that effect? I do not see it in the specifications for ESP or the general disallowed list, or in a quick search of the rest of the rule book.

[Bones]

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame.

Yes?

Steve,

I believe the answer to your question is "No"

That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack?

Craig

[Jim Watson]

He is probably coming from USPSA Single Stack, where it says:

"Magazines in this division must be of standard length, excluding base pads. No extended

magazines may be used. No modifications may be made to base pads to increase

magazine capacity."

There is no such language in IDPA.

[MichiganShootist]

It's not a 1911 solution.... but I saw several guys running Glock 21s in ESP last year.

That gets you to the 10 + 1 loading and a 230 grain bullet at under 600 fps should produce about the same recoil as a .22 LR.

[Bill Nesbitt]

I sometimes run a Para P-14 in ESP. A 200 grain bullet at 130 + power factor is a real pussycat.

[Gary1911A1]

I sometimes run a Para P-14 in ESP. A 200 grain bullet at 130 + power factor is a real pussycat.

Now that would be the way to go. No messing around to build 9 round mags.

[Jim Watson]

I thought I had a double stack .45 ESP in the works but the "gunsmith" has apparently absconded with my money and parts. I wouln't have thought you could skate to Brazil on the value of a buildup, but he apparently has. Not seen, no reply on contact.

[Trail3]

I have often thought that the 45 is ESP is the way to go. Load them light and go to it.

I have been looking at the XD in 45 as a gamer gun for the ESP Division, not all the problems associated with the 1911 platform,

XD holds 10 rounds in the mag, big holes, and reload them soft.

[steel1212]

I know my local match director will screw you with his stages quite often. He will deisgn them as such to where 10+1ers can't miss. Well if you shooting CDP everybody has to reload. If your shooting ESP with a ESPish gamer gun with 10+1 you can't miss. If your shooting a gamer 1911 with 9+1 be it 9mm or .45 well ya just got screwed with an extra reload.

Would I run my .45 with 8 round mags in ESP, hell ya I would and you had damn well not let me beat you while I'm at it! Would I down load my .45, probably not but that is just me as I'm used to shooting major and I would rather stick to what I'm use to. Is .45 downloaded soft....like a fluffy winter duck!

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: How about a single stack 40 that holds 10 rounds +1. That messes things up for the 9mm guys ;-) I have 40 single stack mags that hold 8,9 and 10 rounds. The double stack STI's are the best gamer guns. Merlin has a 2011 45 that he wants to shoot in CDP or ESP. I think that would be the best of both worlds. Thanks, Eric

[Joe D]

If you think about it for just a minute you will realize that a plain old Wilson 8 round mag will work for most IDPA stages. Most stages, except for the ones I design, are usually 15 rounds or less. You start with 9 in the gun plus an 8 round reload mag.

A .45 loaded to a 130 pf with a 200 gr SWC is pretty soft shooting. I plan on shooting my .45 at a local match this weekend. I can start with 10 in the gun plus a 9 round reload.

I know I am a Glock fan, but I like to "play" during the winter months with a different gun.

[Steve J]

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame.

Yes?

Steve,

I believe the answer to your question is "No"

That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack?

Craig

He is probably coming from USPSA Single Stack, where it says:

"Magazines in this division must be of standard length, excluding base pads. No extended

magazines may be used. No modifications may be made to base pads to increase

magazine capacity."

There is no such language in IDPA.

I stand corrected. As long as it makes weight and fits in the box. The crossover corruption actually came from the Single Stack Classic rules from which USPSA borrowed heavily. Thanks for making me dig back through the rule book.

Very creative idea.

[Chills1994]

This has been hashed out before here on this forum already.

Granted the thread is about a year old now, but it might be worth reading:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41602

I haven't tried loading bunny fart .45 loads (with heavy bullets) NOR have I tried shooting very light weight bullets at a whatever velocity to make PF ( of 125 +).

Some will say the gun cycles too slow for them.

[Joe D]

Don't believe that nonsense about "waiting on the slide". There is not a person alive that can pull the trigger faster than the slide will cycle. A slow heavy bullet just feels different.

[Gregg K]

Don't believe that nonsense about "waiting on the slide". There is not a person alive that can pull the trigger faster than the slide will cycle. A slow heavy bullet just feels different.

+1

I built a .45 1911 with an extra heavy slide and was told that it would cycle slow. The gun fires 11 splits and it's still waiting on me. Like you said, I think it's more perception than fact.

[rockrem]

I like JoeD sample some different guns in the winter months. Just purchased a 3906 S&W. Single stack 9mm

8 plus 1. I think it will be a lot of fun. D/A trigger make you a better shooter when you get back to a smooth

trigger. The old S&W auto is hard to beat for plinking and having fun on the range.

rockrem

Huntsville alabama

[midvalleyshooter]

Thanks for all the input.

K

[PPC Eljay]

+1 on the ESP 45. I shot all of 07 with my Kimber BP 10 II with 200gr SWC at about 135PF. The big holes are nice and they saved me quite a few times, a 9 would have dropped points or worse missed a few sloppy heads, though I did hit one non threat that I hould have missed. BTW I'm really happy with that gun ($500 NIB) but I've never seen another one anywhere. More than once I was questioned about my Division when the SO sees 1911 but hears 11 rounds before a reload.

[rgkeller]

You will have to fabricate the magazines, though; I know of no source for them. Mine were made by cutting 10 round Metalform and Brown magazines off to fit The Box and silver soldering the floorplates back in. I dipped the bottom in viny screwdriver handle coating in lieu of a basepad.

But, won't you have magazine tube with rounds below the bottom of the frame? that is illegal. Only the basepad (which holds no bullets) can protrude below the bottom of the frame.

Yes?

Steve,

I believe the answer to your question is "No"

That is not a restriction in the IDPA rulebook. Is it in USPSA Production or Single Stack?

Craig

IDPA has always been about gamers anyway.

[Joe D]

Gamers? Are you saying my spring loaded vest is a gaming device?