9mm minor using Small rifle primers

[ogiebb]

i will be starting reloading 9mm minor for production i already have a lot of small rifle primers ..will there be a problem if i reload with these instead of using ordinary small pistol?...ive seen this posted before but could not find that thread...thanks

Edited November 23, 2007 by ogiebb

[lynn jones]

using srp shouldn't be a problem, just give it a try with your gun first.

lynn

[D.Hayden]

It's what I use.. in 2 of my pistols.. my Glock 35 won't light them off reliably.. to ge 100% there, I use Federals

[TrueDoubleTaper]

They will be fine as long as your gun will set them off.

[rhyrlik]

Small rifle primers are unnecessarily hot for small charges of fast powders often used in 9mm Minor loads. I would not use them with a 2.5 grain charge of Clays behind a 147gr bullet, for example.

Let me share the following:

About 10 years ago I decided to work-up a 148gr. HBWC load for my Python. I decided to use 357 brass, Bullseye, and every primer known to man in hopes of finding the most accurate combination. I started with a 1.5 grain charge, and increased in .2 grain increments. To my surprise, every other primer pierced with these starting loads until I reached 2.1 grains. The cases were sticking and look pristine on the outside, indicating that the pressure was so high that they sealed perfectly upon ignition. Thy looked like a Weatherby round fired in 110 degree heat.

Incidentally, the 2.7 grain classic load produced typically sooted cases. So did all subsequent loads using powder charges higher than 2.1 grains.

What does this mean?

Too little powder + too much primer = DETONATION.

Detonation is bad for a number of reasons:

The pressure curve created by detonation often exceeds the elasticity of steel and causes catastrophic failure.

Accuracy is so-so.

Muzzle blast is piercing and intolerable.

Fortunately, in my case, the small 1.5-2.1 grain charges did not detonate with sufficient energy to KB my Python, but having seen detonation first hand, I will never, ever recommend hot primers for fast powders.

[ogiebb]

thanks for the info guys...the only reason i asked is because i still have 20k small rifle primers that i use for my open and Limited pistols and i really dont want to buy anything anymore...

[ipscbob]

I wouldnt use them. Contrary to urban myth, rifle primers are not any hotter than pistol but the cup material is thicker. This is done to prevent slam fires in certain types of semi auto rifles. If you use them with minor loads, be aware that they may not seal fully in the pocket and there may be some gas leakage around the primer. If so, the gas could damage your breachface. I have had personal experience with this in the past.

[AlamoShooter]

I wouldnt use them. Contrary to urban myth, rifle primers are not any hotter than pistol but the cup material is thicker. This is done to prevent slam fires in certain types of semi auto rifles. If you use them with minor loads, be aware that they may not seal fully in the pocket and there may be some gas leakage around the primer. If so, the gas could damage your breachface. I have had personal experience with this in the past.

+1 Exactly 100% Want to see a photo of the cutting? =don't do

JF

[eerw]

The theory or myth..depending on what you prescribe too..

and this is what I have been told..

you use small rifle primers with higher pressure loads..such open gun loads with ligher bullets or some limited gun loads..the harder primers will not flatten or smear as much as std. small pistol primers.

if using rifle primers in minor type loads..the harder cup will not deform..sealing the primer in the primer hole..gases can escape through the ring..and after repeated firings..will cut a cirle in the breechface..

need a mythbusters here..

Edited November 24, 2007 by eerw

[Good Time Gang]

i am having difficulty finding small pistol primers in my area. i was also thinking of using small rifle, or magnum primers..... i was told to drop off 10% on the mag primers, anyone ever used them b4?

[AlamoShooter]

I did for major loads and yes 10% may be too much to crono the same. I used less than a 1000 but it seemed OK

I was still able to let the brass cool and it would set back in the chamber the same amount as the regular primers.

So the southern Eng. would say the brass was OK & the head stamp still was nice and sharp.

Over the crono it was only 5% to4% diff with 5% less powder of 7625 compressed load , acting the same.

I found small Rifle for my loads and only used that lot as a test.

A gift of 20year old CCI primers and light steel loads is what did the "Gas Cutting" on my breach face.

Edit to add , I like Super comp = I can set the brass in a case check gage back-wards to check for "case bulging"

Edited November 24, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[ChuckS]

I wouldnt use them. Contrary to urban myth, rifle primers are not any hotter than pistol but the cup material is thicker. This is done to prevent slam fires in certain types of semi auto rifles. If you use them with minor loads, be aware that they may not seal fully in the pocket and there may be some gas leakage around the primer. If so, the gas could damage your breachface. I have had personal experience with this in the past.

I have seen one example of breechface erosion in a 9mm major open gun. Granted, this is the only one I looked at but it does fall in line with what the guys are saying here and elsewhere.

YMMV,

Chuck

[SLM]

A little OT but I'd like to see a picture of a cut breech face. I don't think I've ever seen any.

[Merlin Orr]

I ran about 19,000 small rifle in my Limited gun after I ditched Open. My breachface looks a little dark around the firing pin but no visible erosion....

YMMV.....

[ogiebb]

does this mean tha Small rifle primers is Bad for my Open and Limited guns as well?

[AlamoShooter]

I did some photos of the "Gas Cut" but I am no good at posting photos if some one wants to email me I will email it back and you can post it for us/me

assc@sbcglboal.net

Yes it was caused by a light load and hard primers =Gas blowed back around the primer and cut the breach face.

Edited November 24, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[ipscbob]

The original question was about MINOR loads. My personal experience with breachface erosion was in multiple guns with minor loads only, both in 9mm and 45acp. This is a relatively well known hazard that I was forewarned about by others but did not listen to initially. Ignore it at your own risk. I use Winchester Small Rifle primers exclusively in my open 38supercomp loads with no ill effects. Of course, they are at MAJOR PF. I have 2 guns with breachface cutting due to this. When I get a chance to take some pics, I will post them here.

Edited November 24, 2007 by ipscbob

[SLM]

I did some photos of the "Gas Cut" but I am no good at posting photos if some one wants to email me I will email it back and you can post it for us/me

assc@sbcglboal.net

Yes it was caused by a light load and hard primers =Gas blowed back around the primer and cut the breach face.

Here are the pictures Alamo was kind enough to send me...

[AlamoShooter]

I did some photos of the "Gas Cut" but I am no good at posting photos if some one wants to email me I will email it back and you can post it for us/me

assc@sbcglboal.net

Yes it was caused by a light load and hard primers =Gas blowed back around the primer and cut the breach face.

Here are the pictures Alamo was kind enough to send me...

The breach face was cut for regular super and I shoot super comp so the primer is off center to the fireing pin. This is my -Older - S.C. gun that Tony Kidd built for me. Evenin my late night hand held photo the ring is visible the size of the primer, it is caused by cased by a bunch of very small holes. the outer ring that is the out side of the brass base is just ware in the crome and is smooth and even.

JF

Edited November 24, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[DougCarden]

I have a breech face that is cut due to hot loads(high pressure) with standard Win pistol primers.

Small rifle primers are fine for major loads in .40 and the open gun major loads.

For minor loads it is strongly advised to run standard pistol primers for them. The only difference would be if you have a SVI slide with an interchangable breechface. Then when you erode out one breech face you can drop another in instead of replacing your whole slide.

Hope this helps,

DougC

[JThompson]

Chuck Bradley started a thread about this some time back... there was a great example in a picture on the second page. The reason in that case was thought to be an oversized primer hole.... regardless there is a picture and some good info on the thread.

You can find it here: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...itting&st=0

Edited November 24, 2007 by JThompson

[glock_556]

i am having difficulty finding small pistol primers in my area. i was also thinking of using small rifle, or magnum primers..... i was told to drop off 10% on the mag primers, anyone ever used them b4?

GTG

Get in touch with me, we may be placing an order for some small pistol primers pretty soon.

[Religious Shooter]

I use FSR and WSR with regular brass with my 9mm minor loads using WSL and TG powder. I've had no problems.