USPSA Limited...Glock VS STI/SVI?

[boo radley]

I had the same learning curve when I switched from Glocks to STI, but it really is only temporary. I had the oppurtunity to handle one of the new CCF / Glock frames and they appear to be even heavier than my STI Edge. But if you are comfortable with Glocks this may be the ticket for you. Me, I adapted quite well to a STI. There is only 1 more thing to think about (thumb safety) while shooting, and that is only a momentary action while drawing on the first target.

Good post, Chris...but for me, the hard part is psychological. I was joking with another shooter last night -- I might order another magwell and mag extensions for my G35 to shoot Limited. No big deal, except this would be the FIFTH magwell I've bought (having sold the previous ones) and THIRD time I've bought Dawson +4's, only to sell 'em on the forum.

It's amusing, but not. The thing is, I've yet to have a good, confident match with my STI, or hell, even a single-stack. The Glock just feels comfortable, presumably because I've shot ~25k through it, so there's always a feeling of: "%*($*( -- I wish I had my Glock," when things go south with the STI. I need to really grind out some rounds through it, but...why? Because I've bought one, and have one? That's a hell of a reason.

Shoot a bunch through a Glock only if you want to really diminish the joy of any other pistol purchase. They jade you fast, and you kinda become not really happy with....anything.

[Mooney]

I've only shot 4 or 5 matches with my G22 (Limited division) but I got my first stage win overall with it- including some very well regarded local guys (Masters) shooting both in L and Open... I usually shoot revolver though, and shooting my G22 (only action mod done is a 3.5 lb. connector, very polished) is like cheating compared to revo division....heck, you only have to really reload once a big course...

I can shoot a 19/ 2011 pretty well, but I find the triggers are just too dang touchy for my feel- I am used to a long, smooth trigger pull for the 625 (thanks Round_Gun_Shooter for re-retuning it since I shot it to the point of not working!) and single actions surprise me too much when I get to the break.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Mooney

[Micah]

Good post, Chris...but for me, the hard part is psychological.

I got the gist of your post...

...at least I get a little chuckle out of shooting better with a $450 plastic gun than a finely oiled $3500 machine.

Place your time in practice and not working overtime to pay for your newest custom gun and you (the generic "you") will see better results.

[Chris Keen]

Uh huh ..... and how many different variations of Glocks have you had in the last year ???

[Flexmoney]

Uh huh ..... and how many different variations of Glocks have you had in the last year ???

Daaayam...datz jist fashun. Everybod-d knows Glocks'r better lookin' !!

[atmar]

i've had just one glock all my life....its my one and only pistol...its my bedstand gun, ipsc standard gun, carry gun etc. etc.

[the duck of death]

I let a friend, who is about to make GM w/an tuned SVI, shoot my G17 his reaction "I wouldn't want to shoot a gun w/that light a trigger pull".

The trigger pull on my G34 open gun is under 2lbs w/minimum take up, the cost ZERO.

Glocks are cheap, easy to work on, reliable and accurate.

Edited September 24, 2007 by the duck of death

[WWJD]

Well, with all the feedback I went Glock.

Reasons:

#1 $

#2 Most people commented on crappy triggers - well I felt 3 x S & J Customs triggers and frankly they were awesome - I had no worries about triggers

#3 If a Glock is harder to shoot with...then I will have to improve more (and it will cost me less)

I have put about 400 rds thru a used G35 I got - John Nagel spent about 20 min on the trigger - and have to regrets.

[Jman]

Well, with all the feedback I went Glock.

Reasons:

#1 $

#2 Most people commented on crappy triggers - well I felt 3 x S & J Customs triggers and frankly they were awesome - I had no worries about triggers

#3 If a Glock is harder to shoot with...then I will have to improve more (and it will cost me less)

I have put about 400 rds thru a used G35 I got - John Nagel spent about 20 min on the trigger - and have to regrets.

...you are wise beyond your years, well done!

Jim

[Glockster35]

Well, with all the feedback I went Glock.

Reasons:

#1 $

#2 Most people commented on crappy triggers - well I felt 3 x S & J Customs triggers and frankly they were awesome - I had no worries about triggers

#3 If a Glock is harder to shoot with...then I will have to improve more (and it will cost me less)

I have put about 400 rds thru a used G35 I got - John Nagel spent about 20 min on the trigger - and have to regrets.

Ok, I'll ask it...

What are the two regrets you have on the SJC trigger job?

[Glockster35]

Welcome to the dark side of the Firearms world.

Now people will hate on you for owning a Glock, think you made a foolish decision, wasted your money on tupperware and make fun of you for owning the plastic fantastic. they make me !

I personally think you made the only clear choice! There needs to be more Glock shooters joining the sport, using the Glocks, and kicking that S_I booty!

[shooting for M]

IMHO I agree with most of the posts on this thread in that practice is way more important than equipment.

I just bought my first STI a couple weeks ago. You can read my thread in "what I hate" as to why I haven't shot it yet. Here are my reasons for getting an STI: I think that transitioning from a 1911 to a 2011 would be easier than from a 1911 to a Glock, plus I've kinda wanted an S_I forever. I think that S_I's have more options for different sived hands, I have short very wide fingers, I just went to thin grips and will be getting a short trigger shortly for my SS.

I was ready to buy a Glock just to start shooting limited. I had a G30 that I almost made master with in IDPA the first time ever shot the classifier, and carried it for like 6 years, loved it, it was very reliable and concealed reasonably well.

I just got back into USPSA shooting less than a year ago shooting my old Kimber Custom Classic for SS and L10. I will continue to shoot mostly SS for the forseeable future especially when it is a recognized class next year.

The downsides of an S_I IMHO: They can be more finickey than a Glock. They are way more expensive and more expensive/harder to work on than a Glock. Magazines are more expensive and might need to be tuned. Here is what I expect to pay for all my stuff: the gun was $1675 used 5" tactical with a lot of work done to it. Mags, tubes 45, Grams spring/follower kit 16.5, basepad Grams/Dawson 32.5, HSMITH tuned mags from Shooters connection, 130 or 600 for 5, or Brazos tuned mags 125 each or 500 for 4. The difference is a lot of practice ammo and match fees. Everything else, mag pouches and holsters are the same or close enough not to make a difference.

As far as frame wear, I think with either gun you'll want to get a new one before you have to, unless you are shooting +P all the time.

Again IMO if you have the money and dont have a preference get an S_I, probably a used one from the classifieds here, it will probably have and acion job and maybe some other things done to it and some mags, and save you some $$. If you don't like it you can probably sell it here for what you paid for it.

BTW a lot of what I have learned is new info, and learned most of it here. So take what you want, but I am going through getting into limited now, and I will proably be posting a lot on my range diary as I get this thing running. If you want to know more feel free to PM me for more info in a couple weeks as I get everything and how it runs.

Jason

EDIT: I missed the part where you bought a Glock, maybe someone else can benifit from what I've learned here. Good luck and practice well.

Edited September 25, 2007 by shooting for M

[WWJD]

No worries.

I owned a Kimber TAC Pro II for years as a carry gun but really didn't shoot it a much. About 4 months ago I decided to do a 3 gun for kicks and was hooked on the sport. After 3 matches I decided that the 4" .45 single stack wasn't really working (ammo cost to much, sight radius, ect.).

All your advice really helped as I handled, shot, and priced options. At the end of it, I realized that it would probable be years before I could even come close to out shooting a Glock if in fact a S_I is superior. By then - I would have alot more experience to know what my shooting style really is. All that paid for by the $ I saved on a Glock.

[lugnut]

[Moderator note: merged thread]

I've been really enjoying shooting my G34/G35 in both IDPA and USPSA for a couple year now. For fun I've actually been shooting my G34 in Limited Minor-might keep doing it for a while. I have also used my G35 in major but just don't see as fast and comfortable with the .40 in that gun. Plus hotter loads tend to bother my elbow- at least they did last time I shot the G35.

The question is- if I was to continue with Limited and wanted to shoot Major- what are the advanatges of shooting say a .40 Brazos SC gun compared to the Glock 35? I have shot a friends STI Limited gun a while ago and it did seem VERY manageable compared to the Glock. Now I know the cost side of things- I'm just curious as to the performance at matches. I realize this may be subjective and I don't want to turn this into a Glock bashing session. I'm seriously trying to consider longer term options.

Now before you guys suggest going to Open... I've thought about that as well... but I really don't want to invest that kind of cash yet and I HATE the thought of chasing my brass.... I guess I've been spoiled with 9mm/40 in that regard.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Flexmoney

[Joe4d]

Note, everyone doesnt have Glock numbers memorized, length and caliber is appreciated.

Sounds like all you may need is weight, Adding a large heavy mag funnel may help, probably other places to add some weight to the non moving parts, Tungsten guide rod comes to mind. An STI is gonna give you a better trigger with a shorter reset, many find the grip angle is better but that is a personal thing. What is the 141 mm capacity on your gun ? My STI is 22+1, Now whether or not all this will translate into better scores is anybodies guess. Are you shooting factory .40 loads ? Most are pretty harsh and come in at 180 pf from a 4" gun.

major pf ammo does recoil more than minor but it does for everybody.

[Dan Sierpina]

Dave,

I would say the biggest advantage to shooting an STI/SVI is the gun's handling characteristics can be far more tailored to your preference. Weight is the thing. A lot of the local guys shoot Heavy/Heavy limited guns, and do well with them (I think they cheat, they practice). Some of us do okay with our light guns (practice?....that's the first 2 stages, isn't it?)

I've offered to let you shoot one of my guns, even if you want to shoot it in a match.

Oh....you don't have to get hung up on name brand gunsmiths. A lot of $ can be saved by purchasing a factory STI/SVI and having a bit of work done, trigger being the most notable.

[lugnut]

Note, everyone doesnt have Glock numbers memorized, length and caliber is appreciated.

Sounds like all you may need is weight, Adding a large heavy mag funnel may help, probably other places to add some weight to the non moving parts, Tungsten guide rod comes to mind. An STI is gonna give you a better trigger with a shorter reset, many find the grip angle is better but that is a personal thing. What is the 141 mm capacity on your gun ? My STI is 22+1, Now whether or not all this will translate into better scores is anybodies guess. Are you shooting factory .40 loads ? Most are pretty harsh and come in at 180 pf from a 4" gun.

major pf ammo does recoil more than minor but it does for everybody.

Joe- I figured to get a good comparison from actual experience with both I wouldn't need to explain the models- that being said the G34 is full sized 9mm, G35 is full size .40.

My G35 with Dawson mag extensions gets about 19/20 rounds. so the STI is at least a couple more. I shoot reloads at about 170PF out of my Glock. Good info Joe.

[ima45dv8]

Do you want an ST/SV/Brazos-type blaster?

Get one.

[lugnut]

Dave,

I would say the biggest advantage to shooting an STI/SVI is the gun's handling characteristics can be far more tailored to your preference. Weight is the thing. A lot of the local guys shoot Heavy/Heavy limited guns, and do well with them (I think they cheat, they practice). Some of us do okay with our light guns (practice?....that's the first 2 stages, isn't it?)

I've offered to let you shoot one of my guns, even if you want to shoot it in a match.

Oh....you don't have to get hung up on name brand gunsmiths. A lot of $ can be saved by purchasing a factory STI/SVI and having a bit of work done, trigger being the most notable.

Hey Dan- I certainly will take up your offer... just need to find time after a match this spring maybe? The thing is... I believe it takes a fair amount of time to get a good assement of a gun's true potential. Long term grip angle may be a nonissue. I first hated Glocks.. now I love them.

I'm wondering if it is predominatly the weight that provides the biggest advantage like you said. For example with the same 9mm loads my Glock 34 is a completely different animal compared to my STI Trojan. The Trojan feels like I'm shooting 22s and just is plain flat... even though my 147 gr loads in the Glock are nice to start with.

Oh wrt name brand gunsmiths... it's just that I've shot Pete's Brazos Open/Limited guns and they just work and work and work. But I'm not hung up on them... I just think they are awesome.

I guess this is what the off season does to you... it makes you think about all the options for the spring and beyond!!!!

[lugnut]

Do you want an ST/SV/Brazos-type blaster?

Get one.

Well if money was no object I would do just that and figure it out for myself. But if I went new I'm well over 2-3K for setting up everything. That is what's holding me back... at least for now.

[glocklover]

If I had the money for a S_I I would buy one, but I don't. So, I will do the best I can with a Glock and I will laugh under my breath when I beat someone who has a S_I gun. The fun factor is still high and I have a great time thats all that matters and that I don't come in last.

[North]

The price of ammunition will by far outdistance the price of a pistol if you shoot enough to get good at this sport. Get the pistol you want, then buy a whole hell of a lot ammunition and shoot the dickens out of it.

Like Flex says, pick one and practice.

[Flexmoney]

Aaaaahh....yup.

[Dan Sierpina]

Oh wrt name brand gunsmiths... it's just that I've shot Pete's Brazos Open/Limited guns and they just work and work and work. But I'm not hung up on them... I just think they are awesome.

Dave,

Is it the gun? Or simply that someone that lays out that much cash takes more care in their ammo and maintainece?

[glocklover]

The gun or the shooter? I guess that's the question. I've shot with guys that have very nice guns, but don't shoot very well. I can beat them with my Glock. But I always think I might do better if I have a S_I gun. I guess I won't know unless I buy one.