Micah Posted August 29, 2007 Share Posted August 29, 2007 The mark of excellent stage design is to make you do something without telling you to do it. Great stage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I would say the most effective way of shooting the stage would be to spend from now until nationals working on your strong hand and weak hand shooting every day. There you go again Jake, trying to make things look easy. David C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 What does "in luggage carry fashion," actually mean? I notice direction does not unsupported. I travel alot so in luggage carry fashion might have a different meaning to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 What does "in luggage carry fashion," actually mean?I notice direction does not unsupported. I travel alot so in luggage carry fashion might have a different meaning to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks We can guess and make uneducated comments but I am certain that it will be clearly explained at the walk through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sargenv Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 At the Canadian Nationals they went so far as to have a photo of the start position for each stage. Kinda cool and kept the gamers at bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 lets all just carry a 'case and see who looks normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 If I were the CRO...here is how I would answer that question... "Imagine you had a gun in one hand, and were going to use the other hand to swing a suitcase and whack somebody upside the head for being a pain in the ass. Would you like a demostration?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Flex... hehehehehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 What does "in luggage carry fashion," actually mean? It sounds to me like they're talking about a real fashionable "Gucci looking" suitcase or something. How the heck would you carry something like that? Personally, I wouldn't. Which brings me to this whole concept of the "man-bag"? WTF? MAN-BAG??? Brian Kilmeade was extolling the virtues of a man-bag on Fox News a few weeks ago. I badly wanted Col. Hunt to walk over and bitch slap him right there on the set. It's called a gym bag or a back pack you doofus! Wow. Sorry, I blew up like that. I kinda lost my head there for a minute. BTW Flex, you hit somebody upside the head with a Gucci looking bag, everybody's gonna think.......well, you know what they're gonna think. Just make sure you hit them with a gym bag, or better yet a tool pouch with a hammer in it. Can't be too careful these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I'm with ya, Sam. I see those bags you are talking about at the range all the time. Me...I still like my 5gal bucket. I guess I'm the only one that knows how to carry it..cause nobody ever carries it for me. I do find they know how to sit on it though. They do that for me a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENE S Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 I like stage descriptions that have a little store to them. On the way to the corner store you are attacked by several thugs and you must defend your self. Engage all paper targets with two rounds each and steel must fall to score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 5 gallon bucket? Dang Flex, why didn't i think if that? OK, tomorrow I take a 5. Yeah, I'm with you GENE. Lately, at our club we have been doing scenarios that read like "you are minding your own business and get attacked". I know it's only a game but it's fun to pretend it ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Depending on how the stage is set up - I'd probably pick up the blaster and engage the first three targets, possibly the first five targets freestyle. Either way, say you can't see those back two easily from the start position. Hit the first three and pick up the briefcase. Honestly, I'd probably pick it up weakhanded because if I could work it out I'd try to avoid the WHO deal all together. Get to table two, drop the briefcase having engaged no targets with it in hand. Hit the two targets in front of you freestyle, reload, and polish off the stage. All depends on how it is set up - but based on the diagram this could easily be a case of the stage description planting more in the mind than what really has to happen. As I read it, the only penalty issue can really only come up if you engage targets with the case in the wrong hand (carried the wrong way). There's a ton of ways around that - even including dropping the case in the dirt to engage targets before planting it on the table. The only interesting thing is they note picking the case up SHO - but they only specify penalties will happen if you engage targets with the briefase in hand incorrectly. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 (edited) Okay Range Lawyers....Is what Jack suggests feasible? The course description specifies, "On the audible start signal, pick up the briefcase with your strong hand, retrieve your gun, and engage targets as they become visible, from within the fault lines, while carrying the briefcase by the handle with your strong hand. normal luggage carry fashion." Can they specify the order after the buzzer? If so, there is a missing "then" in the above statement (i.e. p/u briefcase THEN retrieve gun). Or if you edit down the huge, run on sentence "engage tgts....snip...while carrying the briefcase"...does that sentence define that you can't engage the targets without carrying the briefcase? Does "remaining targets" mean implicitly that you can't deposit the briefcase and then shoot/retreat on the stage? If you're not carrying the briefcase, Jack is right. There would be no penalty.... "There will be a per-shot penalty for each shot fired if briefcase is not held normally by the handle, in luggage carry fashion, in the strong hand, for any targets engaged while carrying the briefcase." Edited September 8, 2007 by carinab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I read it like this, "pick up briefcase with strong hand" it doesn't say you have to keep it there. So i would pick it up then drop it quickly, then shoot the five targets up front. grab the briefcase with my strong hand and run it back to the table. Deposit said briefcase and clean the last three targets. The course doesn't say you have to shoot while holding briefcase, or maybe it does. There are too many commas and not enough periods to distinguish sentence structure. There is a gamer way here, I know there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Okay Range Lawyers....Is what Jack suggests feasible? The course description specifies, "On the audible start signal, pick up the briefcase with your strong hand, retrieve your gun, and engage targets as they become visible, from within the fault lines, while carrying the briefcase by the handle with your strong hand. normal luggage carry fashion." Can they specify the order after the buzzer? If you're not carrying the briefcase, Jack is right. There would be no penalty.... "There will be a per-shot penalty for each shot fired if briefcase is not held normally by the handle, in luggage carry fashion, in the strong hand, for any targets engaged while carrying the briefcase." Does this bit need to be re-worded to make sure you actually engage the tgts while holding the briefcase....?? Thats funny that you interpreted it that way, I interpreted it that you engage the 1st 3 targets WHO, and then once you deposit the bag then you can proceede shooting freestyle. I think it does need to be reworded. It should state something on the lines of engage T1-T3 WHO then deposit bag on table to then proceed to shoot the other targets and shoot them as you see them, or if its WHO only stage then say that. Because if you can see all the targets from the first position, then you can shoot them all from the first position freestyle, transfer the gun into your week hand and shoot the first 3 targets with luggage in hand then deposit the bag to table 2, but how would you time placing a bag on a table? I guess I will be one of guinea pigs for this stage, since it is our first stage of the match. Seems like there is alot of assumptions on this stage, but until we see it we can't no for sure. For all I know they may have already changed the description, so will just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 or.....maybe the description is written the way it is written on purpose. Could somebody get a video of this stage so the less unfortunate (me) can see how it was shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'd wager that the WSB will be worded differently when you get there, but I've been wrong before..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 One thing to note here - The way I proposed has a large degree of "interpretation" in it. And to Carinab's point, it probably has holes in it that a range lawyer could ding you on. I always make it a point to ask the RO if what I'm doing is ok. Yeah, s/he may say no and that could lead to some inconsistencies down the road but it beats the heck out of 3, 6, 8, or 10 penalties on a stage. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 One thing to note here - The way I proposed has a large degree of "interpretation" in it. And to Carinab's point, it probably has holes in it that a range lawyer could ding you on.I always make it a point to ask the RO if what I'm doing is ok. Yeah, s/he may say no and that could lead to some inconsistencies down the road but it beats the heck out of 3, 6, 8, or 10 penalties on a stage. J On the plane to OK I looked over the stages and I was thinking (shooting production) just grab the case and the pistol and run to table 2. Dump the case and engage the back targets, reload on the way back to table 1. That depends on how far the movement is, but I think it meets the stage description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'm not there but that sounds like a loser to me. Unless there is an extremely high risk factor, taking the targets while carrying the briefcase is going to be the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I wasn't saying it is better or worse, that is impossible to tell without seeing it ste-up, I was just noting that it seems to meet the criteria and is different than the options mentioned. Most likely it will end up being shoot weekhand, dump the mag on the way to table 2, reload and finish 'em off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I'll be curious to hear how this stage was shot after the match. It's one of those stages where the set up will dictate what you do. The challenge I see is the specifics in the procedures. Particularly in how penalties will be assessed. I don't think I'd take care of the brief case first and then go back and take care of the targets. I could possibly see options where you take care of targets first, then deal with the briefcase, then finish off the remaining targets. Most shooters don't practice shooting weak handed enough, most don't practice it while moving, and most haven't had to shoot much of it at a major match. Personally, I don't mind weak hand that much. But a major match is won by minimizing mistakes. Shooting the stage freestyle as much as possible would, to me, give a more stable foundation and rule out some of the potential dangers in trying to run it weak handed. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I'm with Jack, get the case, dump it inon the second table the then shoot the whole stage feestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Well, I just got a call. This stage is proving to be problematic to the shooters for the way the procedure is being implemeted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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