Single best way to improve the IRC

[Carmoney]

Hey ICORE,

Want to truly improve an otherwise great match? Eliminate Near and Far Standards in favor of a non-specific long-range standards stage that varies from year to year. Right now there is too much advantage going to the shooters who have the time and resources to set up a duplicate of that stage at their home range and groove themselves in by shooting it over and over and over and over.....

Keep in mind I'm not saying we should get rid of the long-range shooting at the IRC. Just vary it up from year to year, and don't publish the exact distances, target placement, and par-times ahead of time. Make people show up, see the stage for the first time at the match, and shoot the sumbitch cold!

Might be wrong, but I'll bet the vast majority of IRC shooters would agree with me on this.....

[JThompson]

Hey ICORE,

Want to truly improve an otherwise great match? Eliminate Near and Far Standards in favor of a non-specific long-range standards stage that varies from year to year. Right now there is too much advantage going to the shooters who have the time and resources to set up a duplicate of that stage at their home range and groove themselves in by shooting it over and over and over and over.....

Keep in mind I'm not saying we should get rid of the long-range shooting at the IRC. Just vary it up from year to year, and don't publish the exact distances, target placement, and par-times ahead of time. Make people show up, see the stage for the first time at the match, and shoot the sumbitch cold!

Might be wrong, but I'll bet the vast majority of IRC shooters would agree with me on this.....

I tend to agree...

[Pin Shooter]

I will admit the the Standards have spanked me in the past, but that in itself is not a good enough reason to get rid of them. The Hogues have put a bounty on that stage, and I think that Al from Adco, may have sweetened the pot also. The deal is, once it has been zeroed, then we can give it the flick. It won't be a sad day for me to see it go, but I would like to see it beaten like a redheaded stepchild before it leaves.

It is the same as steel and bianchi.......your can practise the piss out of the same boring stages, but it only gets borng once you can shoot the same times or scores on demand.....Who can say that they can do that?

Not me........

[ffl]

I agree with carmoney that the long range shooting is a good thing to keep in the match. Near & Far is abane in my side. I have no way to practice it at our local range and it does place an advantage to those who have shot it alot or have a place to set it up and shoot it.

[10mmdave]

Jeez Mike, you've only been to one match and you want to change it already

I'm sorta with PinShooter, I'd like to see it broken someday, wonder if that will happen

if we start using the new D1 targets with the black dot

[Bubber]

I would say get ridd of it.... After I zero it.. For many years it was called that D@^^ stage, Then it progressed to the other stage. Granted many do not have the time, facilities, or the inclination to practice it. And some of us do not have the time, facilities, or inclination to practice the run n gun stages. Last years IRC had a good mix of run n gun and the standard type of stages. the more run n gun the less the standards will affect the out come if shot cleanly. But basically in ICORE there is no stage one can tank and come put well. That is the nature of the beast. After the Far and Near gets zeroed.. I can see the "Cup" making a come back. Now that was a challenge.. Just my thoughts worth every penny you paid for it...

[Pin Shooter]

Dave,

Interestingly enough, the score at this years Bianchi were not different than years gone by without the black dot. The big advantage was that there was no advantage of what time to shoot, as shadows and sunlight didn't play as larger a part as it normally would, without the black rings. ( or so I am told )

In my opinion that would be the only advantage of using the new targets for the standards ( which would stop all 200 of us trying to shot beteween 3 - 5pm ).

Having said that, I can screw it up at any distance in any light, so what would I know?

L8er

Mark

[Bubber]

Dave,

Interestingly enough, the score at this years Bianchi were not different than years gone by without the black dot. The big advantage was that there was no advantage of what time to shoot, as shadows and sunlight didn't play as larger a part as it normally would, without the black rings. ( or so I am told )

In my opinion that would be the only advantage of using the new targets for the standards ( which would stop all 200 of us trying to shot beteween 3 - 5pm ).

Having said that, I can screw it up at any distance in any light, so what would I know?

L8er

Mark

I do think the black dot in the new NRA D=1 would be an avantage to the point where you would know where the "center" of the target is. The NRA D-1 is a bit deceiving in where the exact center is. I will put a white dot covering the X zone on the array of 6 targets for the F$N and look at them as I am watching TV or whatever it gets you to know where to point. And I set it up in my front room a couple of months prior to the IRC and my kat does not seem to mind...

[1911 rookie]

you can always set up a scale model of it at home to dry fire practice. I think the formula is something like scale distance/real distance = scale factor. so if you are in your garage at 2 yards, 2/50=1/25scale, makes the targets like 1.2 inches tall. that gives you the same sight picture of the real targets at 50 yards. Find somebody who knows CAD and I am sure they could whip up a real good print off the NRA pdf.

I can double check when I get home, I finally found it on the internet after sifting through all sorts of astronomical sites that you get when you Google scale and distance.

I tried this when I hurt my back just before the IRC and had to switch my plan from prone to standing. In the garage I had a tendency to shank my first shot left, I did the same thing at the IRC so at least I'm consistent.

Jason

[Viggen]

Far Near is there to keep it honest. Shooting accurately has to be honestly practiced otherwise the results will suxk. And when it comes to practicing it, some of those who only practice it don't do very well. And obviously, those who are willing to put time and resources toward a sporting activity will have an advantage. Shooter A works hard and shoots bullets in practice to increase his ability. Shooter B doesn't practice and wonders why he doesn't do so well - match results generally reflect your level of preparation, no matter who you are. That's the way things work.

When Far/Near gets "zeroed" then it may be time for another challenge.

[mwx40x40]

Interesting concept , but here's my take. A fellow may be able to take a stage and set it up at home and get grooved in on it and possibly win the stage. The same fellow gets ready for an unknown match and practices the usual variety of things we typically practice and still beats the ones that do not practice at all.

Jerry , Max , Dave,Rob, etc...... and folks like them will come out on top regardless of stages being known or unknown.

At least that is what I think, but maybe I am missing something.

[pjk]

Sorry Mike, I'd like to Far & Near stay just as it is. It is the one constant in the match each year and it does give all competitors something to strive for in practice. Maybe not everyone has the facilities to practice the 50yard shots however most would be able to practice the 25y, 10&3 component of the stage.

Can't practice the 50yard shots then they should be trying to zero out the closer distances.

Apart from providing a focal point to train for, Far & Near does require the devolpment of other skills skills strong/weakhand, reloads under pressure and accuracy. Training sessions with components of F&N incororated into them will benifit your skills overall.

I know each time BRT and I have a training day we allways shoot F&N or a component of. It pays off.

Can't shoot 50y? Before the IRC on 06 I was training in the garage at home with scaled down 50y and 25y targets. Worked for me allthough I shot nowehere near a PB in the match.

I look forward to the challenge of a PB each time I shoot it or even the challenge of zeroing the string we may be practicing.

I love it. Leave it as it is.

Paul Kennedy

[Carmoney]

Far Near is there to keep it honest. Shooting accurately has to be honestly practiced otherwise the results will suxk.

That's fine--keep it honest. Make the match as tough as you want. Make the shots as long as you want. Put in a freakin' standards for chrissakes, just not the same damn thing every year that makes the stage 100% predictable and "groovable."

[Carmoney]

Jeez Mike, you've only been to one match and you want to change it already

Hey man, at least I was there!!

[Viggen]

I guess "groovable" means to zero the stage - haven't seen anybody do that yet.

I don't know that anybody can "groove" in on anything at 50 yards, maybe 5 or 7 yards, but not 50. At least not right now with the amount of practice most folks put to shooting groups at 50 yards. Good grief, they even let folks go prone at 50 AND 25.

The top guys are the ones that practice. We would all like to come out on top. Some practice more, some of us don't practice quite so much.

Eventually some stud or studess will practice enough to to zero the stage. When that happens I am quite sure the IRC will provide another challenging "standards" stage to upset the applecart.

[underlug]

Hey ICORE,

Want to truly improve an otherwise great match? Eliminate Near and Far Standards in favor of a non-specific long-range standards stage that varies from year to year. Right now there is too much advantage going to the shooters who have the time and resources to set up a duplicate of that stage at their home range and groove themselves in by shooting it over and over and over and over.....

Keep in mind I'm not saying we should get rid of the long-range shooting at the IRC. Just vary it up from year to year, and don't publish the exact distances, target placement, and par-times ahead of time. Make people show up, see the stage for the first time at the match, and shoot the sumbitch cold!

Might be wrong, but I'll bet the vast majority of IRC shooters would agree with me on this.....

Just zero it for us and we will cheerfully move on to something else. I know you can do it

[8shooter]

I was speaking to Nelson after the match about this, and he said it has been put to vote a couple times now, and it has been a majority decision to keep it at least until it was zero'd.

I think it comes back to the same thing as every other match, class, division .... those that can put in the dedication to shoot it over & over again deserve to have that advantage over those like myself that would rather get drunk in their spare time, and then just turn up on match day and see how things pan out.

Speaking of getting drunk ... time to practise.

[Carmoney]

Just zero it for us and we will cheerfully move on to something else. I know you can do it

I'd love to, but I think it would be pretty tough with a Limited gun.....then again, I now have a pretty cool 627 V-comp with a C-More downstairs!.....nah, I think I'll stay with iron sights, for a few more years anyway.

I can guarantee you I will not shoot the IRC again without the ability to perform decently on the Standards, you factor out that single stage and I would have finished second to Nils in Limited with my 625. Even with only one pre-match practice session I managed to get all my shots on the paper, but I'll admit I was pretty shaky, and the overtime shot sure didn't help....next time I will know what to do....

(I still wish they'd mix it up a little, and keep those "groovers" a little off-guard.....)

[pskys2]

I tried to help set you up with the F&N at the KS Outlaw ICORE Match. We even had some salty, experienced ICORE competitors there.

But the mindset and needed temperment is different than with IPSC.

The idea reminds me of the year I went to the "CUP" and they changed to the IRF instead of the Practical. Robbie ended up winning it and the truly die hard Bianchi competitors didn't like the idea. They changed back the next year and haven't changed much since then.

I am curious, did the IRC F&N set up and run pretty close to what I did?

I'm thinking of putting the IRC on the calender for next year.

Edited August 26, 2007 by pskys2

[Bubber]

I tried to help set you up with the F&N at the KS Outlaw ICORE Match. We even had some salty, experienced ICORE competitors there.

But the mindset and needed temperment is different than with IPSC.

The idea reminds me of the year I went to the "CUP" and they changed to the IRF instead of the Practical. Robbie ended up winning it and the truly die hard Bianchi competitors didn't like the idea. They changed back the next year and haven't changed much since then.

I am curious, did the IRC F&N set up and run pretty close to what I did?

I'm thinking of putting the IRC on the calender for next year.

pskys2 the F&N must have been the same set up as I totally sucked on the Stage in Kansas and did the same in California. Put the IRC on the calender, it is such a nice drive. Whut is the IRF, this dummy wants to know. rdd

[pskys2]

I tried to help set you up with the F&N at the KS Outlaw ICORE Match. We even had some salty, experienced ICORE competitors there.

But the mindset and needed temperment is different than with IPSC.

The idea reminds me of the year I went to the "CUP" and they changed to the IRF instead of the Practical. Robbie ended up winning it and the truly die hard Bianchi competitors didn't like the idea. They changed back the next year and haven't changed much since then.

I am curious, did the IRC F&N set up and run pretty close to what I did?

I'm thinking of putting the IRC on the calender for next year.

pskys2 the F&N must have been the same set up as I totally sucked on the Stage in Kansas and did the same in California. Put the IRC on the calender, it is such a nice drive. Whut is the IRF, this dummy wants to know. rdd

International Rapid Fire:

4 strings each at 25 Meters (I think) at 4-6-8 Seconds at 5 Targets for a total round count of 60. It's still an authorized NRA Action Pistol Course. The 4 second stage required a smoking run, about IPSC Speed. 6 Seconds would be about ICORE Speed and the 8 Seconds was definitely Bianchi Speed.

[hopalong]

The SINGLE best thing to change at the IRC to make it better is...........................................

GET IT OUT OF CALIFORNIA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You might get some more shooters to participate if you did

Hop

[Bubber]

The SINGLE best thing to change at the IRC to make it better is...........................................

GET IT OUT OF CALIFORNIA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You might get some more shooters to participate if you did

Hop

I would be nice to have it closer, but when your core gourp of RO's, Match Directors are in California it makes it a challenge to move around. I have shot the IRC in Colorado, twice i think, once in Reno Nevada.... Mike and Stephanie are rumored to be planning the Midwest Regional in Tontitown, indoors, the first part of next year. CYA there? rdd

Edited August 26, 2007 by Bubber

[hopalong]

I have been trying to get to that match for the last 2 years !!!!!!

We may work 5 Saturdays in a year, but it seems that weekend is always one of them !!!!

It is on the "TO DO" list.

Hop

[Carmoney]

I am curious, did the IRC F&N set up and run pretty close to what I did?

I'm thinking of putting the IRC on the calender for next year.

Yes, you set up and ran it just fine. And I did appreciate having that practice run--at least I knew I could survive the stage....

And Dave, I gotta tell you, I had more fun at the IRC than just about any match since Second Chance!! I highly recommend you try to make it out there.